More flooding...

[MtB]

 

Ok, I see what you're saying Mike, but I don't really understand. Isn't any joint in pipework just as likely to leak as the outlet at the end of the pipe?

 

Well the plan is, joints don't leak in normal use. Hoses DO get turned on and left on in normal use, hence the elevated risk that needs guarding against. Apparently.

 

MtB

[blackrose]

 

Probably water getting into the gearbox bellhousing and onto the clutch. For future reference, find out where the air intake is on the car and be mindful of it when wading with the car again. Some vehicles have them quite low down, going through a flooded section with such a car could cause it to be inundated and a hydrauliced engine will result. Saw it once when a 3 series BMW went through a flooded section of road - the driver didn't moderate their speed and the car spluttered to a halt with water 6 inches up the wheels. One wrecked engine and a driver with wet feet.

 

My air intake is at the top of the engine so it's about 3ft high. I was mindful of that when I drove through the flooded road.

 

Will I have done any damage as a result of getting water into the gearbox bell housing/clutch? I thought the gearbox and clutch were sealed units.

 

Well the plan is, joints don't leak in normal use. Hoses DO get turned on and left on in normal use, hence the elevated risk that needs guarding against. Apparently.

 

MtB

 

Ok thanks. So I assume all I need to do is run the tap for a minute or two before connecting my hose next time I fill up?

[eightpot]

 

My air intake is at the top of the engine so it's about 3ft high. I was mindful of that when I drove through the flooded road.

 

Will I have done any damage as a result of getting water into the gearbox bell housing/clutch? I thought the gearbox and clutch were sealed units.

 

Probably no immediate damage, but the clutch release bearing might not like too many dunkings - listen for a whining sound when stationary and repeatedly dip the clutch pedal. About the worst thing that could happen is the wet friction linings on the clutch get "stuck" to the flywheel and pressure plate after parking up the car for a while - I had an old Range Rover that used to do it if left for a few weeks. Usual way to free it off was to stick the car in first gear, one foot down on the clutch and the other hard down on the footbrake, then spin the starter motor. It freed off with an almightly bang, if it didn't then it was engine out time... (It never came to that tho'...)

[blackrose]

Probably no immediate damage, but the clutch release bearing might not like too many dunkings - listen for a whining sound when stationary and repeatedly dip the clutch pedal. About the worst thing that could happen is the wet friction linings on the clutch get "stuck" to the flywheel and pressure plate after parking up the car for a while - I had an old Range Rover that used to do it if left for a few weeks. Usual way to free it off was to stick the car in first gear, one foot down on the clutch and the other hard down on the footbrake, then spin the starter motor. It freed off with an almightly bang, if it didn't then it was engine out time... (It never came to that tho'...)

 

Thanks - it seemed ok once the car had been out of the water for about 30 seconds. I'll go for a drive tomorrow to make sure all the water is out.

 

I really didn't know about that - I just thought as long as the air intake didn't get water in it then everything would be ok.

Edited February 8, 2014 by blackrose

[MtB]

Ok thanks. So I assume all I need to do is run the tap for a minute or two before connecting my hose next time I fill up?

 

 

That depends on how much cow slurry you decide the farmer up the road might have back-syphoned into the water mains this morning when the water company repaired the supply pipe, without you noticing....

 

 

MtB

[blackrose]

 

 

That depends on how much cow slurry you decide the farmer up the road might have back-syphoned into the water mains this morning when the water company repaired the supply pipe, without you noticing....

 

 

MtB

 

But then we're going back to what I said earlier. Your example of the farmer back-syphoning cow slurry into a damaged water mains supply pipe has nothing to do with my tap being submerged and will affect all the houses around here just the same as it affects me. If it happened it wouldn't matter whether my tap was submerged or not and a non-backflow valve on my tap wouldn't make any difference.

Edited February 8, 2014 by blackrose

[Mike Todd]

 

But then we're going back to what I said earlier. Your example of the farmer back-syphoning cow slurry into a damaged water mains supply pipe has nothing to do with my tap being submerged and will affect all the houses around here just the same as it affects me. If it happened it wouldn't matter whether my tap was submerged or not and a non-backflow valve on my tap wouldn't make any difference.

Apart from the fact that, as MtB has said several times, the regs require backflow protection: (which was what led me to make the point originally)

 

Many water point taps have hoses (semi) permanently attached to them by eg liveaboards. Presumably they have some form of valve at the inboard end but not necessarily with back flow. If the hose becomes submerged then only the content of the hose is contaminated not the supply upstream of the tap.

 

Running water for a time when filling up tanks is recommended not for flushing the supply to the tap but the contents of the hosepipe which may have collected slightly contaminated water when left in the front locker (or wherever). If it had become really contaminated I don't think that flushing would be enough! Best buy a new one.

[matty40s]

I do a bit of flood driving in my Skoda and find that the clutch will start to slip when it gets deep, many more revs and lower gear seems to correct it. My air intake is fairly low but the front grilles and bumper protect it so long as I keep a wave in front. I get worried when the wave starts to come up the bonnet!!

[blackrose]

Apart from the fact that, as MtB has said several times, the regs require backflow protection: (which was what led me to make the point originally)

 

Many water point taps have hoses (semi) permanently attached to them by eg liveaboards. Presumably they have some form of valve at the inboard end but not necessarily with back flow. If the hose becomes submerged then only the content of the hose is contaminated not the supply upstream of the tap.

 

Running water for a time when filling up tanks is recommended not for flushing the supply to the tap but the contents of the hosepipe which may have collected slightly contaminated water when left in the front locker (or wherever). If it had become really contaminated I don't think that flushing would be enough! Best buy a new one.

 

I think what prompted you to make the point originally was a picture of my partially submerged waterpoint which you reposted and commented on. While I do understand that there are regs, as I've pointed out several times, the fact that my water point has been submerged isn't actually any more relevant than it would be for any pipe to a house that goes underground. If the pipe has been damaged, contaminated and repaired further upstream then that will affect all the houses in the area too and if it's just a bit of river water that's got into the tap then it can simply be flushed out before connecting the hose.

 

Also I don't leave my hose connected to the waterpoint. I always flush it through before I fill the tank, but I don't think a hose can become "really contaminated" if it's just sitting in a dry locker?

Edited February 8, 2014 by blackrose

[Serenity Malc]

Yello,

 

Think yourself fortunate that your not still here on The Thames Blackrose ..... it's easily exceeded last years levels and Walton, Shepperton, Sunbury etc are over the highest recorded levels. The river flow is crazy down here at Shepperton. Mind you ... your current mooring doesn't look that comfortable.

 

Serenity Malc.

[blackrose]

Yello,

 

Think yourself fortunate that your not still here on The Thames Blackrose ..... it's easily exceeded last years levels and Walton, Shepperton, Sunbury etc are over the highest recorded levels. The river flow is crazy down here at Shepperton. Mind you ... your current mooring doesn't look that comfortable.

 

Serenity Malc.

 

I guess whatever river you're on it's in flood. From a flooding perspective, the main difference between the Warwickshire Avon and the Thames is the speed that the Avon rises. It nearly caught me out on Friday as I didn't take my dinghy when I left for work in the morning and when I came home in the evening it had risen by nearly nearly 3ft. On the plus side it goes down pretty quickly too.

[Mike Todd]

 

I think what prompted you to make the point originally was a picture of my partially submerged waterpoint which you reposted and commented on. While I do understand that there are regs, as I've pointed out several times, the fact that my water point has been submerged isn't actually any more relevant than it would be for any pipe to a house that goes underground. If the pipe has been damaged, contaminated and repaired further upstream then that will affect all the houses in the area too and if it's just a bit of river water that's got into the tap then it can simply be flushed out before connecting the hose.

 

Also I don't leave my hose connected to the waterpoint. I always flush it through before I fill the tank, but I don't think a hose can become "really contaminated" if it's just sitting in a dry locker?

It was not clear that ot was a personal waterpoint but even so my point was that hose pipes are sometimes (OK not by everyone) left connected with the tap on. Such pipes are inevitably more vulnerable that fixed supply lines.

 

MtB will be able to give a clearer steer on whether the regs require backflow protection further upstream when an exposed standpipe is installed eg at the 'mains' connection.

[blackrose]

Yello,

 

Think yourself fortunate that your not still here on The Thames Blackrose ..... it's easily exceeded last years levels and Walton, Shepperton, Sunbury etc are over the highest recorded levels. The river flow is crazy down here at Shepperton. Mind you ... your current mooring doesn't look that comfortable.

 

Serenity Malc.

 

The Thames does look bad where I used to moor. EA has just issued a severe flood warning. It's meant to exceed 2003 levels!

 

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/floods/34681.aspx?area=061FWF23Wraysbry

[blackrose]

It was not clear that ot was a personal waterpoint but even so my point was that hose pipes are sometimes (OK not by everyone) left connected with the tap on. Such pipes are inevitably more vulnerable that fixed supply lines.

 

MtB will be able to give a clearer steer on whether the regs require backflow protection further upstream when an exposed standpipe is installed eg at the 'mains' connection.

 

Well, whatever the regs say, it seems pretty obvious to me that once they're flushed out, standpipes which were submerged are at no greater risk from contamination than some other parts of the mains water system (which may not be flushed out after a flood because nobody is aware they've been contaminated), especially given the saturated land and all the groundwater flooding we're seeing in some areas.

 

http://www.groundwateruk.org/faq_groundwater_flooding.aspx

 

http://www.groundwateruk.org/Threats-to-and-from-our-Groundwater.aspx

Edited February 9, 2014 by blackrose

[Serenity Malc]

Yello,

 

Yep ..... 7 new severe flood warnings on The Thames ....... and I can see why. The river Bourne at Chertsey has burst it's banks again. The levels are the highest recorded by the EA since the metering station installations in 1985. I went to Chertsey Bridge the recently and the water levels were only just below the 1947 flood markers !

 

I've spent 4 hours today getting my barge safer after my gang plank was unstaked last night by the flow. I still have part of my swim over the bank but I don't think that will matter too much tonight with the levels rising. I've had to tie the stern very tight to stop my prop going into the bank. Tomorrow I'll search for a scaffold pole.

 

Serenity Malc.

[Captain Zim]

I think this might be sort of on topic. What are the conditions on the tidal Thames at the moment? Does anyone know? I was thinking of doing lime house to brentford this week. I don't have to, of course, I can go through town, but it's so much quicker on the river.

[blackrose]

I think this might be sort of on topic. What are the conditions on the tidal Thames at the moment? Does anyone know? I was thinking of doing lime house to brentford this week. I don't have to, of course, I can go through town, but it's so much quicker on the river.

 

It's a good question, I don't really know what the conditions are like on the tidal Thames at the moment. I guess on an incoming tide with lots of water coming downstream it's got to flood somewhere.

 

This PLA live tide page seems to show river levels slightly below predictions through central London (Tower Pier and Chelsea), but way above predictions at Richmond. I expect Brentford is equally high.

 

https://www.pla.co.uk/hydrographics/index.cfm

 

It's probably best to talk to the Limehouse and Brentford lockkeepers.

 

Edit: Whichever way you go it might be an idea to find out what the River Brent is doing at the moment. I was moored at the Fox at Hanwell a few years ago when the river flooded the towpath and the owners of three boats that were there (including a boat belonging to a BW lockkeeper), decided it was safest to moor above the first lock on the flight. There was a very strong current coming out of the river onto the canalised section and I wouldn't have fancied trying to control a boat coming downstream.

Edited February 9, 2014 by blackrose

[Scholar Gypsy]

In addition to the points above (which I think will mean leaving Limehouse earlier than usual) watch out for more flotsam & jetsam in the river...

[Scholar Gypsy]

In addition to the points above (which I think will mean leaving Limehouse earlier than usual) watch out for more flotsam & jetsam in the river...

 

See recent PLA announcement on high fluvial flows, and their earlier safety bulletin. Mainly designed for rowers, but worth thinking about ...

[john6767]

I see that the Thames Barrier was closed this morning.

[Captain Zim]

And for those reasons, I'm out. Now, on the same subject, heading down the lee today I was told that lea bridge is very high at the moment. Possibly impassable. I came under Enfield Lock today which I thought was lower than lea bridge? Any one know the score on this one?

[matty40s]

I think Enfield is very canalised, Lea bridge carries the full flow- the flood channels rejoining below tottenham lock.

[blackrose]

Looks like someone's lost an expensive cruiser downstream of Old Windsor lock. This was along my old jogging route. I think there were 2 or 3 fixed pontoons at that spot but judging by the angle of that security gate they've been wrecked.

 

Edited February 10, 2014 by blackrose

[Nightwatch]

Not a pleasant sight.

 

I'm not effected personally by the floods but it's certainly getting to me.

 

Can't believe it.

 

Martyn

[Dovetail]

River levels at my mooring just above Bidford were about a foot up this morning from last night's levels. I put waders and a lifejacket on, went down the ladder and managed to wade out to put some credit in the electricity meter and fill the water tank. I thought I'd better make the effort before my water point went under! I wouldn't be able to stand by the water point if it gets any deeper.

 

 

 

 

 

I trailed the hose from the water point over the roof of the boat to the bow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I feel for you and all boaters right now on flooding rivers, but waders in that flow and depth of water, one slip and the life jacket may not be any help. Things move around in the water like that and you cannot see it.

Just a thought better safe than sorry.