How far can you pump solid waste uphill

[BlueStringPudding]

Really want to do this now! Why does life evolve around money?

Coz you're on a boat!

[Robbo]

 

Yes true but if your on a big yacht on a toilet thats 3m below the waterline it will go straight up by 3m then back down and out.

 

 

That's not how a sea toilet us plumbed in when it goes overboard. It goes through a seacock under the waterline. However sea toilets (as the one your looking at) can be plumbed into a tank, for the toilet your looking the top of the tank can be 3m above the elbow waste outlet.

[Doodlebug]

 

That's not how a sea toilet us plumbed in when it goes overboard. It goes through a seacock under the waterline. However sea toilets (as the one your looking at) can be plumbed into a tank, for the toilet your looking the top of the tank can be 3m above the elbow waste outlet.

 

Yes but to prevent syphoning its supposed to have a high point above. Thats what my manual for the toilet says.

[Robbo]

 

Yes but to prevent syphoning its supposed to have a high point above. Thats what my manual for the toilet says.

 

Aye that's true it needs a vented loop above the water line at it's max heel which could be easily 2-3m..

[blackrose]

And I know lots of people's whose pipes do smell! As do the chaps at the boatyard who recently serviced mine as it's the very first question they asked me when I phoned them because it's such a common complaint. And as they'd never worked on my make of system before that suggests it's a common problem. I'm pleased yours is perfect and I hope Doodle's will be too.

 

It only takes a quick search of this forum to read threads about other people who also experience this. If you like I could lie and pretend to Doodle that there's no chance of any problem with smell from the pipes. But as he opened this thread asking for thoughts about his idea I thought it best to tell him my experience

 

incidentally one person's experience does equate to the truth. If not then your experience is also a non truth. What you probably mean is one person's experience doesn't necessarily equate to the majority.

 

Who said there was no chance of smells with a full waste pipe? Not me.

 

I meant exactly what I said the first time about one person's experience not equating to the truth. Unlike you I wasn't stating categorical truths because I'm well aware that some waste pipes do smell. That's why I said "if you use the correct pipe..."

 

Of course it's fine to relate your experience to Doodle to help him, but you originally stated in a very categorical way that that a pipe that was full of waste would smell. All I was doing is pointing out that was not necessarily true if the correct pipe was used and the system was properly designed.

 

As for whether the majority of waste pipes smell or not I really don't know because I don't have any data, but then neither do you. Anecdotes from blokes who work in boatyards mean very little because they generally repair systems that aren't working and they don't look at systems that perform well. I used to work in a boatyard myself

 

The point is that full waste pipes shouldn't smell. If they do then as you've already admitted yourself, there's a problem somewhere in the system.

Edited December 27, 2013 by blackrose

[blackrose]

 

You can do but its probably easier to give links to products in a list on how they attach to each other.

 

So first you have the ceramic toilet:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jabsco-Compact-Bowl-Manual-Marine-Sea-Toilet-Boat-Sailing-Yacht-New-/141139581009?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item20dc931851

 

The pump will have the flush valve disengaged so that it is just a straight pipe to the outlet. Onto the outlet I will attach one of these:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12-volt-Macerator-Pump-for-Boat-RV-or-Motorhome-/251390898880?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item3a8810b2c0

 

which will pump via a 1 inch waste outlet pipe (designed to stop odours from passing through the plastic) out from the bathroom towards the deck. There is a platform on the boat which I will build a tall top box (see the link in the signature) around the following set up.

 

The 1 inch pipe I will jubilee clip onto this:

 

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/flexible-spout-for-jerry-cans-2?da=1&TC=SRC-jerry%20can

 

which will then give a quick release water tight fitting onto one of these:

 

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/20-litre-jerry-can-2?da=1&TC=SRC-jerry%20can

 

Then the flush tank will be filed with a dilute solution of blue and the remainder of the blue will be put inside the jerry can.

 

The resulting slurry should smell like any cassette toilet when being emptied but will not have the lumps that cause splashing. The jerry can has an air vent to prevent it glugging as its being emptied - and because they are outside any slight smell would be blown away - whereas the cassette smell is usually experienced when using the toilet.

 

I hope that makes more sense? Now that its listed like that.

 

Unfortunately we are running out of money but should have the next lot paid into the bank on the 6th ish so then I can get going with the rest of the idea. I will report back/photo/video

 

Thanks for all the tips - i'll pay for proper waste pipe to make sure there wont be any smells.

 

I will be interested in how this all works once you get it going. You're a brave man to want to design your own remote cassette system, and I mean that without a hint of sarcasm. If it works I'll want to do it myself.

[Doodlebug]

 

I will be interested in how this all works once you get it going. You're a brave man to want to design your own remote cassette system, and I mean that without a hint of sarcasm. If it works I'll want to do it myself.

 

That doesn't fill me with encouragement! I just hope that by using standard parts it will all work really well.

 

If I was trying to design something by making the parts myself I would struggle.

 

If it works i'd be pleased with myself if others build one

[Starcoaster]

Among the multiple problems/issues that have already been raised, one I haven't seen suggested is this-

If you are planning on having four jerry cans storing your hopefully liquidised shite in handy 20l portions on the back of the boat, how will you know from the throne room when one can is full and it is time to connect up the next one, without going out to look? And how will you know anyway, other than the weight of each can? You can't just peer down into them to see the fill level like you can with a cassette, can you.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Starcoaster

[Doodlebug]

Ahh I'm going to have two wires on the jerry can attachment linked to the macerator circuit. When it senses liquid it will stop the macerator and beep.

[FadeToScarlet]

Ahh I'm going to have two wires on the jerry can attachment linked to the macerator circuit. When it senses liquid it will stop the macerator and beep.

I quite liked the scales idea that someone suggested earlier- set to light a warning light when at, say, 90% full so there's a little margin for error.

[George94]

Rather than pumping upwards, why not suck, with a vacuum pump? Then you wouldn't have effluent left in the pipe.

 

Very sound suggestion. And I am glad you added "with a vacuum pump".

[George94]

You know, the only difference between Bizzard's wheezes and Doodlebug's projects is that whilst both are crazy, Bizzard isn't serious.

 

Doodle, really, this is a doomed scheme. There are so many complications, like the warning system, that it is bound to go wrong at some point. Then you are in all sorts of trouble. Deep doo-doo, as the Americans say.

 

Just buy four cassettes, and keep them on the roof.

[Doodlebug]

Don't be so pessimistic!

[George94]

A proper risk assessment will not only cover the probability of something going wrong, but also the consequences if it does.

 

Now it's not totally improbable that your plan will work, for a while at least. But what happens if the pipe develops a blockage, at the top, while it is full? Or if it suddenly starts to leak, in the middle of the night?

 

A boat-full of "night-soil", and fairly liquidy stuff at that, would soon convince you, where I and others have failed, that this is not your best-laid scheme.

 

A variation of Murphy's Law states that the more unpleasant the result, the more likely it is to happen.

 

Doodle, this isn't going to end well. I feel it in my bones. Sometimes being a pessimist is the best thing to be.

[Doodlebug]

It will be one single piece of pipe. If there was a blockage after the macerator then yes it might be a messy job to clear but the end I would have to open where the mess would subside would be into the shower.

 

If the macerator was the thing to be blocked then thats a problem many people face on boats every day.

 

I think with careful usage the macerator won't block.

[RLWP]

A proper risk assessment will not only cover the probability of something going wrong, but also the consequences if it does.

 

Now it's not totally improbable that your plan will work, for a while at least. But what happens if the pipe develops a blockage, at the top, while it is full? Or if it suddenly starts to leak, in the middle of the night?

 

A boat-full of "night-soil", and fairly liquidy stuff at that, would soon convince you, where I and others have failed, that this is not your best-laid scheme.

 

A variation of Murphy's Law states that the more unpleasant the result, the more likely it is to happen.

 

Doodle, this isn't going to end well. I feel it in my bones. Sometimes being a pessimist is the best thing to be.

 

But George, this is the very foundation of both tragedy and comedy. The protagonist proceeds towards disaster despite the advice of everyone

 

And what could be funnier than a good toilet disaster

 

Leave him be, there's some fun to be had in this. It is an entire episode of Last of the Summer Wine for a start

 

Richard

[Doodlebug]

Its going to work perfectly - no one has come up with a good reason why it wont work. Current reasons are:

 

Smell - debated by many but general agreement is that good quality pipe/replacing every 5 years will prevent this

Blockage - used on yachts without problems all the time - as long as its used carefully this wont happen

Overflow - i'll check once a day and have the sensor just in case

Smell from cassettes - no worse than any other cassettes

 

Other than that there are no other reasons not to do it. But plenty of reasons why its a good idea. I'm committed now so got to do it. But honestly its no different to pumping to a holding tank. I suppose worst case is I have to convert to pump out but If the cassettes dont work why would a pump out be better?

 

Thanks all

[RLWP]

You are a man with an obsession. Sometimes the only thing to do is let it run itself to a conclusion

 

Good luck with your project

 

Richard

[George94]

 

But George, this is the very foundation of both tragedy and comedy. The protagonist proceeds towards disaster despite the advice of everyone

 

And what could be funnier than a good toilet disaster

 

Leave him be, there's some fun to be had in this. It is an entire episode of Last of the Summer Wine for a start

 

Richard

 

I do appreciate that in being kind to Doodle, I am endeavouring to deprive others of their innocent fun. That's collateral damage.

 

And were I a disciple of Jeremy Bentham (the greatest good for the greatest number, etc) I should no doubt follow your advice.

 

But I have an ulterior motive. I am trying to get Doodle to think about winter power generation. He's full of ideas, and there is a change he might just come up with something. My concern is that if he proceeds with this great manure scheme, and it fails, he might be put off inventing for life. That's if he survives to tell the tale. The methane might get to him first.

[Captain Fizz]

I think that the level alarm should be linked to the VHF and transmit on 16 so all in the vicinity are warned of impending calamity!

[RLWP]

 

I do appreciate that in being kind to Doodle, I am endeavouring to deprive others of their innocent fun. That's collateral damage.

 

And were I a disciple of Jeremy Bentham (the greatest good for the greatest number, etc) I should no doubt follow your advice.

 

But I have an ulterior motive. I am trying to get Doodle to think about winter power generation. He's full of ideas, and there is a change he might just come up with something. My concern is that if he proceeds with this great manure scheme, and it fails, he might be put off inventing for life. That's if he survives to tell the tale. The methane might get to him first.

 

Having spent several days repairing a bit of workshop equipment that cost £50 in the first place, sometimes you have to just work these things out. I would have been better off buying a new one, however I have learned a lot along the way. Hopefully, if this project doesn't kill him he will be a wiser and more experienced inventor

 

Even Leonardo da Vinci didn't get it right all the time*

 

Richard

 

*did he ever invent anything that was actually useful?

[mattlad]

 

But George, this is the very foundation of both tragedy and comedy. The protagonist proceeds towards disaster despite the advice of everyone

 

And what could be funnier than a good toilet disaster

 

Leave him be, there's some fun to be had in this. It is an entire episode of Last of the Summer Wine for a start

 

Richard

Have a greenie Richard!

[George94]

 

Having spent several days repairing a bit of workshop equipment that cost £50 in the first place, sometimes you have to just work these things out. I would have been better off buying a new one, however I have learned a lot along the way. Hopefully, if this project doesn't kill him he will be a wiser and more experienced inventor

 

Even Leonardo da Vinci didn't get it right all the time*

 

Richard

 

*did he ever invent anything that was actually useful?

 

Well, he invented tanks and helicopters but, without an engine to drive them, they weren't terribly useful. You could say that they never got off the ground.

Edited December 28, 2013 by George94

[Paul G2]

Doodlebug,

 

While your Jerrycan idea might have merit, wouldn't your time and money be better spent to make one of these yourself, and never have to handle sewage again? You could plumb your toilet directly into the unit, and do a normal flush and clean and all that - not have to try to stay near-waterless.

 

 

 

http://www.nautiflore.fr/

 

 

The website has schematics and such that you could use to design your own unit that would fit in the space you have. This thing is really not much more than a couple of buckets, an air pump and a pool chlorinater.

 

This unit sells for €1982 - for those who always wonder what stuff costs. I have no affiliation with the company.

[Doodlebug]

What is it exactly? 1982 pounds is slightly more than my 200 price limit!