help id this model barge to aid restoration

[vee-six]

Hi i have joined this forum to ask if anyone can help me find out what this model boat should look like.

In the past ive been mostly involved in sea going boats of the modern type.

But always i have been involved with rc models including boats and the unusal always interests me, so when i found this in a second hand shop about 7yrs ago i had to buy it.

i have ask many model boaters who have no idea or to be honest no interest, probably because its not shiney enough.

 

Probably the model construction its self wont help you guys it being a model, but i will tell you a bit incase your interested as i am being an engineer.

It apears home made and posssibly home designed but very well thought out. The quality of the wood is very poor, looks the type you might find say a pallet made from.

It has a propellor shaft and propellor very nicely made probably comercially but not the type i can buy today. It also has a rudder which may be home made.

There has been some thin wood sheet decking detail laid on top which looks comercial but could be a very well made DIY job.

As the rudder does not appear to ever have been connect to anthing i would rule out it ever being radio control, i am thinking steam powered, set the rudder and go.

 

It also has metal frames where maybe a tarpaulin would go or something like that,

 

Any way i hope some one here could advise if it is based on a real barge / narrow boat and help with some deatails of what it would have been used for and how it should look.

i will be convering this to electric and radio controll but would like the outside to look as did when it was made.

 

i hope i am not intruding on your forum with this but thought this would be a good place to ask

many thanks for taking your time to read this

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cheshire~rose]

I am sorry I cannot help you at all with details of your model but I just wanted to say how much I like the look of it and I hope someone will be along with some information for you soon - possibly images of real boats that match the basic design of the model you have. It would be very interesting if you could share the retoration with us as I would love to see how you get on with it.

 

Welcome to the forum

[tafelberg]

When I took one look at it, it reminded me of JOE that used to be moored round the corner. No 108 http://www.phobox.com/boats_w/No_108.htm

 

I don't know if that helps?

[PaddingtonBear]

Owned by Pete Boyce (still?) who is based at the turn in Braunston very near to Midland Chandlers.

[Bee]

Bit of an oddity that isn`t it, the front looks like a bcn day boat, the proportions look to be right, there is no sheer so that would fit, looks like a narrow boat till you get to the back end, I wonder if it was built as a narrow boat and then a different stern was grafted on when someone decided to give it a motor, interesting though, wonder how old it is?

[Ray T]

Don't know whether any of the inland waterway museums may help?

 

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/national-waterways-museum?gclid=CM6UnZuFlroCFajKtAodviIANA

 

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/gloucester-waterways-museum

 

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/the-canal-museum/stoke-bruerne

 

Interesting because the front is similar to The Chigley barge:

 

Edited October 14, 2013 by Ray T

[Guest]

Sorry can't help with any details, but it is a fascinating model. I would really like to see pics of your progress with it.

[AMModels]

Hi For what it might be worth I think the model is made of or at least sheathed in plywood, in one of the pics you can see the alternating layers where the sides have been broken. It is too bluff to be a joey imo, the fore end has a more jebus from the tom puddings shape to it, could be it was based on a wide boat like L&L or similar, the stern reminds me of something I have seen on a barge. The stem post at the bow looks very heavy again to be a narrow boat, all these things though could just be a DIY builder making a basic model to allow them to play with steam in which case there is no resemblance to any other boat aimed for.

The prop shaft design looks like nothing I have used or seen, when Laurence comes along he might be able to identify it better as he has the wisdom of age over me

The hoops on the top of the model do suggest it had sheets of some kind on it to cover the hold/rc area, again (other than a few later classes) this wasnt something seen on canals, narrow boats tended to have stands and planks which gave a distinctive toblerone shape to the cloths. The planking on the stern is something you see a lot on model boats of a certain type and I would imagine it is home made and for me at least would lean towards steam power given the age of the model, just my opinion of course.

[carlt]

Motorised Thames barge?

 

 

 

The prop shaft design looks like nothing I have used or seen, when Laurence comes along he might be able to identify it better as he has the wisdom of age over me

This is not a bad, if crude, representation of how they motorised boats with deeply raked sterns, the Scottish Zulus, for example (though the rest of the boat bears no relation to the beautiful lines of a Zulu).

[c c]

1930s coastal and estuary Tug boat

[Derek R.]

I don't believe it's a model of any specific vessel, just a modellers construction of something that resembles many types and done as simply as possible without the recourse to any complexities of construction necessary to create sheer and double curvature swim ends. The two bands across the back are reminiscent of tug tow guards which makes me think there may have been a superstructure resembling a wheelhouse and engine room, but simplicity in construction and a desire to see a completed working model may have been the primary desire of the original builder, hence the element if crudeness. I'm sure it must have given someone a lot of pleasure in building and using, and now in the rediscovery of anothers handiwork.

[Pluto]

I don't believe it's a model of any specific vessel, just a modellers construction of something that resembles many types and done as simply as possible without the recourse to any complexities of construction necessary to create sheer and double curvature swim ends. The two bands across the back are reminiscent of tug tow guards which makes me think there may have been a superstructure resembling a wheelhouse and engine room, but simplicity in construction and a desire to see a completed working model may have been the primary desire of the original builder, hence the element if crudeness. I'm sure it must have given someone a lot of pleasure in building and using, and now in the rediscovery of anothers handiwork.

I would certainly agree with Derek, particularly re the tug-type guards at the rear. The propellor and rudder extending below the keel also suggests a deep-water boats, though this may just be a necessity because of whatever powered it when building the model.

[vee-six]

Well this response I did not expect. First of all thank you to everyone who has responded I am more than grateful for any contribution.

A lot of good suggestions but as I thought and many of you conclude it is probably just made to look like a some kind of barge but not one in particular.

If you don't mind I would like to keep this thread updated with my progress for anyone interested.

I have a few ideas for how I think I might like it to look and I will post these ideas very soon with the purpose of receiving your feed back and any alternate ideas.

Just also to point out something I forgot about how well someone made this many years ago. The bow is made of tin or similar and has some rib details but I can't decide if it's from an old tin can as these have ribs on them already or if someone was very good at panel beating.

I have already stripped the boat and am repairing some cracks. I will post photos of what I have done and also some of the power plant I have bought.

[tafelberg]

I'm looking forward to seeing her

[Derek R.]

Well done Vee-six, it sounds that you might also be best part of the way there in building something original made by yourself! I wonder if the tin-ware was from tin cans or even biscuit tins. So many things were made from tin in the thirties that today are of plastic, so the possibilities of origins are greater. I like the way that nail heads appear to be rivets - most authentic!

 

With regard to any power plant, it may be that something small and steam powered may have been used, possibly with a meths burner as per Mamod steam engines.

 

It does bend the topic threads on this section - but yours is the first of this kind to my knowledge so I for one would look forward to some update as it occurs - it is after all - an old boat!

[Mac of Cygnet]

Do intend to sail it somewhere in the Borders when restoration is complete? I might come and admire.

[vee-six]

Yes I am bending the topic slightly but as I see it a boat is a boat they come in all sizes ;-)

Yes a mammod engine is possible I do have one and it would fit the only thing is fire and wood!

I decided not to remove the the tin section as I probably couldn't re create it if something went wrong.

I think the boat was made by a very creative person using whatever they found laying around.

[vee-six]

I am sorry I cannot help you at all with details of your model but I just wanted to say how much I like the look of it and I hope someone will be along with some information for you soon - possibly images of real boats that match the basic design of the model you have. It would be very interesting if you could share the retoration with us as I would love to see how you get on with it.

 

Welcome to the forum

Thanks i will keep posting as its done

 

When I took one look at it, it reminded me of JOE that used to be moored round the corner. No 108 http://www.phobox.com/boats_w/No_108.htm

 

I don't know if that helps?

yes there are some similarities

 

Bit of an oddity that isn`t it, the front looks like a bcn day boat, the proportions look to be right, there is no sheer so that would fit, looks like a narrow boat till you get to the back end, I wonder if it was built as a narrow boat and then a different stern was grafted on when someone decided to give it a motor, interesting though, wonder how old it is?

Thats something i would really like to know

 

Don't know whether any of the inland waterway museums may help?

 

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/national-waterways-museum?gclid=CM6UnZuFlroCFajKtAodviIANA

 

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/gloucester-waterways-museum

 

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/the-canal-museum/stoke-bruerne

 

Interesting because the front is similar to The Chigley barge:

 

i may send them some photos and see what they think, probably dont touch it leave it exactly as it is , it should be in a mueseum, ooops to late

 

Hi For what it might be worth I think the model is made of or at least sheathed in plywood, in one of the pics you can see the alternating layers where the sides have been broken. It is too bluff to be a joey imo, the fore end has a more jebus from the tom puddings shape to it, could be it was based on a wide boat like L&L or similar, the stern reminds me of something I have seen on a barge. The stem post at the bow looks very heavy again to be a narrow boat, all these things though could just be a DIY builder making a basic model to allow them to play with steam in which case there is no resemblance to any other boat aimed for.

The prop shaft design looks like nothing I have used or seen, when Laurence comes along he might be able to identify it better as he has the wisdom of age over me

The hoops on the top of the model do suggest it had sheets of some kind on it to cover the hold/rc area, again (other than a few later classes) this wasnt something seen on canals, narrow boats tended to have stands and planks which gave a distinctive toblerone shape to the cloths. The planking on the stern is something you see a lot on model boats of a certain type and I would imagine it is home made and for me at least would lean towards steam power given the age of the model, just my opinion of course.

its the toblerone shape that comes to my mind to but maybe the builder just did something similar we may never know how it really looked

 

I would certainly agree with Derek, particularly re the tug-type guards at the rear. The propellor and rudder extending below the keel also suggests a deep-water boats, though this may just be a necessity because of whatever powered it when building the model.

The only thing about it being deep water would be it has a flat bottom which is not good for stability so i would have thought flat botttom only if you have to

 

Do intend to sail it somewhere in the Borders when restoration is complete? I might come and admire.

yes probably gunknowe loch near galasheils

[vee-six]

Some not so good work hidden behind the outer skin

 

the stern deck

 

sides sanded and propultion removed

 

rudder and stern

 

more of the stern

 

sanding reveals some cracks

 

the bottom of the hull glued as was coming apart

 

cracks grooved and filled with strips of wood ans wood glue