Bullseye Liner? Don't laugh!

[junior]

Not sure if this is the best place to put this but as i'll probably never have another excuse to post in the History & Heritage section i thought i'd make the most of it.

 

I understand Bullseye's were traditionally fitted to working boat back cabins? Would they have been lined with anything? Reason i ask is i have had the surveyors report back for my boat and he has recommended that the bullseye be lined with brass or similar. It's hard to explain what i mean but if you picture a porthole liner stuck up in the bulleye that is what i think he means. This is to stop it spontaneously combusting aparently!!

 

Now don't laugh at me, but i think my back cabin is fairly authentic and i'd like to keep it that way as far as possible, but i'm also attempting to rectify all the little/minor things the surveyor picked up on, just because i'm anal like that. So back in the day, would the working boats have had something similar fitted to prevent the bullseye causing a fire?

 

Anyone ever hear of any catching fire?

[Burgiesburnin]

Is it not maybe that a magnification of sun rays could cause a fire?

The chances of this would be greatly reduced if a light sand blasting was applied.

[robmilton]

Hi, not such a daft question actually, I have a bullseye in the roof of my tug style and that is lined with brass, the previous owner showed me where it had started to burn the wooden surround before he put the brass liner in when the sun came through it in summer a bit like a magnifying glass effect so it is advisable to do.

[Kae]

Would a mushroom liner be suitable? Without knowing what size the bullseye is, I couldn't say whether it would fit?

 

Clicky for E-bay Link

[junior]

Would a mushroom liner be suitable? Without knowing what size the bullseye is, I couldn't say whether it would fit?

 

Clicky for E-bay Link

 

Too small but thank you anyway as i am in the market for mushroom vent liners and so far had only managed to find nasty plastic ones. I'm pretty sure i could just use a brass porthole liner, but my reason for posting in this section was to find out if the old working boats would have lined their bullseye's and if so, what with?

 

I have plenty of my own ideas, i'd just like to 'keep it real' if i can.

[ditchcrawler]

 

Too small but thank you anyway as i am in the market for mushroom vent liners and so far had only managed to find nasty plastic ones. I'm pretty sure i could just use a brass porthole liner, but my reason for posting in this section was to find out if the old working boats would have lined their bullseye's and if so, what with?

 

I have plenty of my own ideas, i'd just like to 'keep it real' if i can.

Did working boats have spray foam and wooden linings 4" thick in their cabins?

[junior]

Did working boats have spray foam and wooden linings 4" thick in their cabins?

I have no idea, hence me asking.

[Ray T]

Useful information here:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=38171&hl=%2Bbulls+%2Beye#entry688636

 

and here

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=58638&hl=%2Bbulls+%2Beye

[Timleech]

Did working boats have spray foam and wooden linings 4" thick in their cabins?

 

NO

 

Either a simple wooden cabin, an inch or so thick, or plain wooden lining in a steel cabin with a small air gap and no insulation.

Usually.

 

Tim

[Phil Ambrose]

Ditchcrawler is right,remember we used to row across the Channel but now we go by Seacat.

Tradition has it's place but hey let's get real.

Phil

[Derek R.]

You may have found this image through the other links, but someone on the forum posted this image a while back to illustrate the effect of light through a Bulls Eye lens.

 

The possible danger is in the focal point striking wood which then begins to smoulder and burn. Ex-working boats Bulls Eyes were often of a poorer quality glass with imperfections such that thsi presented little or no problem. Modern day Bulls Eyes are better quality glass (in general) and the effects are shown in this image. Some recommend painting a small circle in the centre of the glass, or overlaying the underside with some opaque material.

 

Thanks to the original poster who suppied the image, I'm afraid I forget who.

 

[Phil Ambrose]

The same problem can occur in houses when "modern" bullseye glass is fitted, usually to simulate old glazing.

Phil

[Laurence Hogg]

Hi, I ran "Boatmans Cabin Co" for many years and we had proper bullseyes made and distributed to the trade. The proper ones do not have the problems of some of the modern ones which are not bulls eyes but lenses originally intended for railway lamp use.

 

I wrote this in a thread in 2011:

"All these items if used as intended should point down leaving the flat surface on the outer.
Bullseyes are in reality "Deck lights", not only do they come as round "eyes" but you have square ones, one like a orange squeezer and oblong toblerone style. Most are still manufactured by Davey who have introduced a equal sided one. All the old ones are fitted with the prism or lense DOWN, this is because they are deck lights inset into a deck and you need to be able walk on them. If no one believes this then go and look at some older chandlery catalogues, they are not made for narrowboat use but were adapted. For some insane reason Yarwoods of all people drew the up cabin plans with the deck light shown fitted incorrectly. This was a satandard Nazeing glassworks lense encapsulated in a frame and sealing ring (exactly what Davey still sells) but wasnt fitted as it would have been in normal use."

links: http://marinestore.c...eck-lights.html

http://www.davey.co....ck_hardware.pdf

 

We made a spun brass liner for the bullseye we sold which was the 8" variety there may still be some left in stock at Iver Bucks, High Line now own BCCo and still have remaining stock there. Tel 01753 651496 ask for John Bolsom.

 

If the one you have is a signal lamp lense it will be very clear and polished on both sides, my advice would be to remove it and have the surfaces dulled, this will help a little but it would be best replaced with a proper one. The first problems I came across with a boat being burnt were back in the early 1990's, since then there have been a few instances and many near misses.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Laurence Hogg

[onionbargee]

the one in Tadworth ( dome on top ) scorched the bed hole curtain quite badly once, since them i glued a white doilly to the outside and had no problem.

 

the things are fire starters unless modified.

[MtB]

Hi, I ran "Boatmans Cabin Co" for many years

 

Aha, so it's YOU Lorry, responsible for the propagation of the term 'boatman's cabin' in place of the correct term 'back cabin' or even just 'cabin'...

 

Just wait until Alan Fincher finds out, lol!

 

 

MtB

[ChimneyChain]

Why is it Laurence that a lot of pictures you see of GU boats in the 50s & 60s the dome is on the top.

 

Darren

[Laurence Hogg]

 

Aha, so it's YOU Lorry, responsible for the propagation of the term 'boatman's cabin' in place of the correct term 'back cabin' or even just 'cabin'...

 

Just wait until Alan Fincher finds out, lol!

 

 

MtB

 

Sorry to tell you Mikey its all down to the Grand Union Canal Company designing the "Royalty" class and Yarwoods, they drew up the plans labelled "Boatmans cabin" and also insanely drew the bulls eye upside down!!

Why is it Laurence that a lot of pictures you see of GU boats in the 50s & 60s the dome is on the top.

 

Darren

 

See the posting reply to Mike, it was the GUCCo that created the error.

[junior]

Hi, I ran "Boatmans Cabin Co" for many years and we had proper bullseyes made and distributed to the trade. The proper ones do not have the problems of some of the modern ones which are not bulls eyes but lenses originally intended for railway lamp use.

 

I wrote this in a thread in 2011:

"All these items if used as intended should point down leaving the flat surface on the outer.

Bullseyes are in reality "Deck lights", not only do they come as round "eyes" but you have square ones, one like a orange squeezer and oblong toblerone style. Most are still manufactured by Davey who have introduced a equal sided one. All the old ones are fitted with the prism or lense DOWN, this is because they are deck lights inset into a deck and you need to be able walk on them. If no one believes this then go and look at some older chandlery catalogues, they are not made for narrowboat use but were adapted. For some insane reason Yarwoods of all people drew the up cabin plans with the deck light shown fitted incorrectly. This was a satandard Nazeing glassworks lense encapsulated in a frame and sealing ring (exactly what Davey still sells) but wasnt fitted as it would have been in normal use."

 

links: http://marinestore.c...eck-lights.html

 

http://www.davey.co....ck_hardware.pdf

 

We made a spun brass liner for the bullseye we sold which was the 8" variety there may still be some left in stock at Iver Bucks, High Line now own BCCo and still have remaining stock there. Tel 01753 651496 ask for John Bolsom.

 

If the one you have is a signal lamp lense it will be very clear and polished on both sides, my advice would be to remove it and have the surfaces dulled, this will help a little but it would be best replaced with a proper one. The first problems I came across with a boat being burnt were back in the early 1990's, since then there have been a few instances and many near misses.

 

Thanks for that Laurence, that makes quite abit of sense, although i'm not sure exactly what type i have as i didn't pay that much attention and i'm not back at the boat until Monday now. If my memory is correct it curves outwards (of the roof) rather than downwards into the cabin. As far as i am aware it is the original one fitted in 1977 and the surveyor said there was no sign of any scorching whatsoever, but as a matter of course has to cover his arse and recommend people with bullseye's get them lined with brass.

 

It sounds as though a brass liner is the best way forward and when i order my porthole liners i will order an extra on for the bullseye.

 

Thanks for everyone comments.

[madcat]

Just to add ,I fitted mine dome inwards,that's ok but I get a puddle in it in wet weather. I put a stainless steel bowl over it , another boat I saw had a clay flowerpot over theirs. Easy to remove if you want some light in the cabin.

[Laurence Hogg]

 

Thanks for that Laurence, that makes quite abit of sense, although i'm not sure exactly what type i have as i didn't pay that much attention and i'm not back at the boat until Monday now. If my memory is correct it curves outwards (of the roof) rather than downwards into the cabin. As far as i am aware it is the original one fitted in 1977 and the surveyor said there was no sign of any scorching whatsoever, but as a matter of course has to cover his arse and recommend people with bullseye's get them lined with brass.

 

It sounds as though a brass liner is the best way forward and when i order my porthole liners i will order an extra on for the bullseye.

 

Thanks for everyone comments.

If its from 1977 chances are its a proper one.

[Mike C]

 

Sorry to tell you Mikey its all down to the Grand Union Canal Company designing the "Royalty" class and Yarwoods, they drew up the plans labelled "Boatmans cabin" and also insanely drew the bulls eye upside down!!

and also insanely drew the bulls eye upside down!! - ?? what is upside down and what is the right way up?

[dave moore]

We used a length of 4 inch diameter. plastic pipe to line ours, with the glass mounted convex side up. Early on we had scorch marks on the liner, the bulls eye acting as a lens. A solution to the problem was suggested by a fellow boater, also a scientist. He suggested that we fit a disc of frosted perspex to the glass using silicone adhesive. His logic was that the perspex dispersed the light rays otherwise focused by the lens. He also thought that the focusing would happen regardless of which way the lens was fitted. A decade later we've had no further problems.

 

Hope that this helps

 

Dave

[Laurence Hogg]

and also insanely drew the bulls eye upside down!! - ?? what is upside down and what is the right way up?

 

These are "decklights" which as their name suggests fit into decks, flat side up is the correct way of fitting. There are several varieties including a toblerone rectangular one, none of which are fitted with the shaped side up.

[Timleech]

 

These are "decklights" which as their name suggests fit into decks, flat side up is the correct way of fitting. There are several varieties including a toblerone rectangular one, none of which are fitted with the shaped side up.

 

I think fitting them dome up was quite common on wooden cabins, it's easier to keep them waterproof that way.

 

Tim

[dave moore]

I have a memory of dome ups in wooden cabin roofs too....with a lead collar around? On hols so no access to pics at the moment, just favouring Greek sunshine!!

 

 

Dave