Non Powered butty licence etc

[DeanS]

We have the opportunity of giving our teen a space of his own, in the form of an unpowered boat which we tow behind our existing boat. We have a marina mooring, which would accommodate both boats. We leave the marina for many months of the year, meaning we would have the choice of either towing the "butty" or leaving it in the marina mooring space. Would we need to register it with CRT as a butty with a home mooring. It will have no plumbing, no gas, no elec, no 12V of it's own. Would it still require a seperate BSC?

 

All comments welcome. Not a definate thing at this stage, but an opportunity may have arisen where we're given an engine-less shell of a boat.

[RLWP]

We have the opportunity of giving our teen a space of his own, in the form of an unpowered boat which we tow behind our existing boat. We have a marina mooring, which would accommodate both boats. We leave the marina for many months of the year, meaning we would have the choice of either towing the "butty" or leaving it in the marina mooring space. Would we need to register it with CRT as a butty with a home mooring. It will have no plumbing, no gas, no elec, no 12V of it's own. Would it still require a seperate BSC?

 

All comments welcome. Not a definate thing at this stage, but an opportunity may have arisen where we're given an engine-less shell of a boat.

 

Would we need to register it with CRT as a butty with a home mooring - Yes

 

It will have no plumbing, no gas, no elec, no 12V of it's own. Would it still require a seperate BSC? - Yes

 

Of course, the license will be cheaper, and the BSC easier to obtain. I'm not sure why your teen won't need any heating, I'm sure you know your own children

 

Richard

[DeanS]

 

Would we need to register it with CRT as a butty with a home mooring - Yes

 

It will have no plumbing, no gas, no elec, no 12V of it's own. Would it still require a seperate BSC? - Yes

 

Of course, the license will be cheaper, and the BSC easier to obtain. I'm not sure why your teen won't need any heating, I'm sure you know your own children

 

Richard

 

Not sure about you, but I dont plan banishing him through the winter to a little plastic shell when he has a berth in the mothership which has a coal fire..lol.

 

He'll only use it in summer as his "summer pad" most likely....

[deckhand]

I would have loved to have one of those "summer pads" when I was a teenager, how cool is that. )

[RLWP]

You must be very skilled at extracting teenagers from their lairs. I have tried and failed frequently

 

Richard

[DeanS]

You must be very skilled at extracting teenagers from their lairs. I have tried and failed frequently

 

Richard

 

It's called electricity. The mother ship has it.

[RLWP]

Ahh, that's going to be a problem too. What teenager is going to have a pad where the Xbox doesn't work

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

I would need to check, but am pretty certain that if your "butty" is a small one, (anything under 50 feet from memory, but I could be wrong), that it will cost you as much for a CRT licence as if it were powered.

 

Minimum cost of any licence IIRC is about £490, (less 10% if you get prompt payment discount).

 

Is this facility going to justify that kind of licence cost?

[David Mack]

We have the opportunity of giving our teen a space of his own, in the form of an unpowered boat which we tow behind our existing boat. We have a marina mooring, which would accommodate both boats. We leave the marina for many months of the year, meaning we would have the choice of either towing the "butty" or leaving it in the marina mooring space. Would we need to register it with CRT as a butty with a home mooring. It will have no plumbing, no gas, no elec, no 12V of it's own. Would it still require a seperate BSC?

 

All comments welcome. Not a definate thing at this stage, but an opportunity may have arisen where we're given an engine-less shell of a boat.

 

Assuming that this boat will be too big to be deemed portable (which CRT define as "‘Portable’ means that the Boat’s normal crew can, without mechanical help, launch the Boat and take it out of the water") then you will have to licence it as an ordinary boat. It will therefore need a BSC (which will be pretty straightforward in this case) and it will either need a home mooring or you will have to declare it to be CCing.

 

For the boat to be recognised as a butty eligible for the 50% licence discount it must be at least 50 ft long and never travel separately from its motor. Otherwise it pays the same rate as a motor.

 

But if it is electrically powered it attracts a 25% licence discount. Small electric outboards are available cheaply on Ebay, so that could be the way to go, even if you never seriously intend it to be self propelled.

,

[DeanS]

 

Assuming that this boat will be too big to be deemed portable (which CRT define as "‘Portable’ means that the Boat’s normal crew can, without mechanical help, launch the Boat and take it out of the water") then you will have to licence it as an ordinary boat. It will therefore need a BSC (which will be pretty straightforward in this case) and it will either need a home mooring or you will have to declare it to be CCing.

 

For the boat to be recognised as a butty eligible for the 50% licence discount it must be at least 50 ft long and never travel separately from its motor. Otherwise it pays the same rate as a motor.

 

But if it is electrically powered it attracts a 25% licence discount. Small electric outboards are available cheaply on Ebay, so that could be the way to go, even if you never seriously intend it to be self propelled.

,

 

Are you saying if it had a small outboard (something we were planning on adding sooner or later), and it's under 50ft (I think it's about 20ft) , that the licence would be less than without the outboard?

[koukouvagia]

It will have no plumbing, no gas, no elec, no 12V of it's own. Would it still require a separate BSC?

 

I would say yes, because in order to get the discount you have to have a licence and in order to get a licence you'll need a BSC. However, without any gas or electricity it'll be pretty easy to pass, I would have thought.

 

The actual wording of CART's licencing conditions is:

 

Unpowered Butty

50% discount for a butty boat more than 50ft long that never

travels separately from its motor boat. The motor boat must be

licensed and licences for motor and butty must be concurrent with

the same start and end date. To claim this discount, you must

declare the name and index number of the motor boat.

 

In my experience trying to get the same start and end date for both licences was a nightmare. BW's (as it then was) computer simply wasn't up to the job.

[grahame r]

Are you sure you will ever want to tow it? Running a widebeam with a butty would be a lot of work through locks. Presumably if it never comes out of the marina then you wouldn't need anything from CaRT.

[Happy Go Lucky]

Don't know about the licensing issues as we were on the rivers at the time but we really appreciated having a separate boat for the teenager. I did fit heating and electricity for her but no engine

[David Mack]

 

Are you saying if it had a small outboard (something we were planning on adding sooner or later), and it's under 50ft (I think it's about 20ft) , that the licence would be less than without the outboard?

 

Yes - providing it is an electric outboard (or an electric inboard for that matter). It is one of the quirks of the licence fees that for a non-portable boat, an electrically propelled boat is 25% cheaper than either a petrol/diesel powered boat or an unpowered boat of the same length.

[DeanS]

Are you sure you will ever want to tow it? Running a widebeam with a butty would be a lot of work through locks. Presumably if it never comes out of the marina then you wouldn't need anything from CaRT.

 

Yup...we may be given a boat with the outboard removed.

I may fit one, or not at some point.

This is all up in the air...but I like to check things in advance:)

 

Yes - providing it is an electric outboard (or an electric inboard for that matter). It is one of the quirks of the licence fees that for a non-portable boat, an electrically propelled boat is 25% cheaper than either a petrol/diesel powered boat or an unpowered boat of the same length.

 

thanks

[Chop!]

I would need to check, but am pretty certain that if your "butty" is a small one, (anything under 50 feet from memory, but I could be wrong), that it will cost you as much for a CRT licence as if it were powered.

 

Minimum cost of any licence IIRC is about £490, (less 10% if you get prompt payment discount).

 

Is this facility going to justify that kind of licence cost?

Yes Alan, that's right, under 50' you don't get the 50% butty discount

On the EA waters you could get it a lot cheaper if it is powered by a motor of less than 4hp (I think) ;o)

Edited September 1, 2013 by Chop!

[paddy r]

If you do need to tow it make sure your insurance know.we have it in our policy for the "motor".

[bottle]

Are you sure you will ever want to tow it? Running a widebeam with a butty would be a lot of work through locks. Presumably if it never comes out of the marina then you wouldn't need anything from CaRT.

 

I believe I am correct, that your presumption is wrong.

 

In very rare cases it is true but as I understand it any boat in any marina that is connected to the 'system' needs a BSS and licence

[sassan]

I disagree with those who say a BSS is necessary. I'm pretty sure that CaRT's license conditions say that one isn't required for boats with none of the following: Inboard engine, electrics, gas, heating. This sounds like what you want.

[Timleech]

I disagree with those who say a BSS is necessary. I'm pretty sure that CaRT's license conditions say that one isn't required for boats with none of the following: Inboard engine, electrics, gas, heating. This sounds like what you want.

 

That'll depend on what Dean means by 'no 12V of its own', and might be open to interpretation.

 

Tim

[jelunga]

I disagree with those who say a BSS is necessary. I'm pretty sure that CaRT's license conditions say that one isn't required for boats with none of the following: Inboard engine, electrics, gas, heating. This sounds like what you want.

I agree

[DeanS]

It is official. The owner cant keep the boat in it's existing marina any longer, so they're removing the engine, and we're buying it for £250. It has 2 batteries which I'll remove and add to the widebeam for now. It has nothing in it...it's justa shell inside....a project for when I have some cash. (next year). Will get it BSC when we do the widebeam BSC shortly, and then licence it at the same time as we renew the widebeam licence.

[mayalld]

It is official. The owner cant keep the boat in it's existing marina any longer, so they're removing the engine, and we're buying it for £250. It has 2 batteries which I'll remove and add to the widebeam for now. It has nothing in it...it's justa shell inside....a project for when I have some cash. (next year). Will get it BSC when we do the widebeam BSC shortly, and then licence it at the same time as we renew the widebeam licence.

 

Dean,

 

does he intend to sleep on board, or just to use it as a parent free space during the day?

 

If the latter, then the cheapest licencing option may well be to licence it as an unpowered HIRE boat with no overnight accomodation. £110 a year.

[DeanS]

 

Dean,

 

does he intend to sleep on board, or just to use it as a parent free space during the day?

 

If the latter, then the cheapest licencing option may well be to licence it as an unpowered HIRE boat with no overnight accomodation. £110 a year.

 

Hi Dave. How would a non business be able to have a "hire boat" though?

[mayalld]

 

Hi Dave. How would a non business be able to have a "hire boat" though?

 

Individuals can operate a hire business.

 

You would simply hire the boat to the teenager on each day that it was required.