Can I Get Opinions On These Boats Please?

[junior]

The first one: http://www.braunstonmarina.co.uk/Findaboat/tabid/66/id/485/boat-name/Albion/Default.aspx

 

My concerns; The age of the boat and the condition of the hull. It says it was originally made from 1/4in thick steel. I don't know what that is in mm's. Is it concerning? If i want to sell in 5-10 years time, am i going to have a problem selling it due to age alone? My other main issue is that i don't want to sleep full time in a boatmans cabin, therfore i would like to convert the space under the tug deck into a fixed double. Is that feasable? I'd also like to modernise the bathroom to add a casette bog and a better shower/cubicle (i can't stand clingly shower curtains).

 

Price; Do you think it is a reasonable price? I'm unsure as to the cost's involved in converting the under tug deck area but i'd like to get the cost of this knocked off the price if not too cheeky. I keep reading everywhere on this forum that sellers are taking crazy offers at the moment, but i also realise that it has a sexy engine and this add's value. If people would prefer to PM me thier valuations thats fine.

 

 

Second boat : http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=319383

 

My concerns: It's bigger than i am looking for. I'm looking for a 45-55 ft tug. However i'm taken in by the interior of this boat, i love it. I also can't find out much about the hull builder, and the ad says it's had work done on the hull. It has a TRANSIT engine! Is this normal? It's a 2.5ltr. Is this going to cost me a fortune in fuel? On the plus side i guess i'll never be short of spare parts. It is also over my budget and i would need to get it at less than the asking price. It only went on the brokers website yesterday so i'd guess they have the upper hand at the moment when it comes to accepting offers.

 

The positive side is that visually i love it. It ticks all my boxes except having a vintage engine (if it did i wouldn't be able to afford it) and it is longer than i wanted. I could however move straight in and everything is to my taste and wouldn't need to throw money at changing things straight away.

 

 

 

Overview: The boat would be to liveaboard, on a home mooring (with hook up) if this makes a difference to opinions, although once i'm confident enough single handing i will be out cruising and sort of semi-CC'ing most of the time. I need to take into account the cost of getting the boat down to North West London/Lower GU. The Tug from Braunston i could maybe manage on my own as a little post purchase adventure. The big boat from up north would need to be moved for me, by road or by water (by someone else) and i'd need to take the cost of that into account.

 

I'm preparing myself for all the replies pointing out things i've never thought of that by the end of the day i'll have ruled out both boats and be back to the drawing board.

[XAlan W]

The Lorenz built boat in 1/4 plate would equate to 6mm as as 1/4 inch =6.3mm I delivered a Walsall BB boat from BCN to Mk Drayton in around 2002 & it was one of the best swimming.steering, & reversing boats I have handled That one was BD3 powered though

[MtB]

That first one looks a cracking boat at first sight. Very interesting boat to own and will hold value well if looked after IMO. At that age it is already on the threshold of vintage-ness!

 

Second one looks dull as ditchwater. I had to shut the window. Thousands like that with nothing special about it so will be difficult to sell later on unless you hack the price down.

 

Just mt first impressions. Have to go to work now!

 

MtB

[junior]

That first one looks a cracking boat at first sight. Very interesting boat to own and will hold value well if looked after IMO. At that age it is already on the threshold of vintage-ness!

 

Second one looks dull as ditchwater. I had to shut the window. Thousands like that with nothing special about it so will be difficult to sell later on unless you hack the price down.

 

Just mt first impressions. Have to go to work now!

 

MtB

Brilliant, thankyou. That's what I wanted to hear. I love the first one, and for that price I can tinker around with it.

[mark99]

Brilliant, thankyou. That's what I wanted to hear. I love the first one, and for that price I can tinker around with it.

 

The second one is reverse layout window pattern. Somehow <personal opinion> looks wrong.

[Tuscan]

First one for me but I would use it for a while first before changing anything, second one may be more suitable for a live abroad if you are looking to replicate a small flat and want a seperate stand alone bed that can be very useful but there are many like this so look at a lot before you make your decision.

[carlt]

First one. Lovely boat with character and, as Tuscan says, I would give it a month or two before deciding on big changes.

 

Second one, bland, soulless clonecraft that would make a nice liveaboard.

[ditchcrawler]

Well you have definitely chosen from each end of the spectrum. I would not discount sleeping in a boatmans cabin, especially if you are single handing. The bed makes up and goes away in minutes. The first will definitely be the better boating boat and will probably handle like a dream. As others have said the second is a nice floating cottage.Which is also IMO.

Hull thickness then you need to look at the survey and of course have your own done. I would also have a word with WFB to see what they thought while they were chopping it about. I guess it must have been good for them to take it on.

[alan_fincher]

The first one: http://www.braunstonmarina.co.uk/Findaboat/tabid/66/id/485/boat-name/Albion/Default.aspx

 

My concerns; The age of the boat and the condition of the hull. It says it was originally made from 1/4in thick steel. I don't know what that is in mm's. Is it concerning? If i want to sell in 5-10 years time, am i going to have a problem selling it due to age alone? My other main issue is that i don't want to sleep full time in a boatmans cabin, therfore i would like to convert the space under the tug deck into a fixed double. Is that feasable? I'd also like to modernise the bathroom to add a casette bog and a better shower/cubicle (i can't stand clingly shower curtains).

 

This could be optimistic, but what is under there at the moment, and how deep is the space.

 

This is more usually done on boats with fairly deep hull sides, (say 4 feet minimum), or the space could be quite claustophobic.

 

Although this is not a very "low slung" tug, it doesn't look to have that deep a hull to me.

 

Another option is the kind of double that lives under the deck, but can at least be partially drawn out into the cabin for use, although even if possible, this would result in destruction of some cupboards. Looking at the internal shot looking forward to front doors, I still question "headromm" under that deck.

[junior]

I would not discount sleeping in a boatmans cabin, especially if you are single handing. The bed makes up and goes away in minutes.

 

 

I guess until i've tried it i'll never know. In fact i can guess it's quite cozy in the winter with the Epping going and could see myself retreating there and hunkering down on a cold december night. However, i've spent the last 2 years living in a house (converted stable) with only a sofa bed. Having to put my bed together every night and put it away in the morning became such a chore i just can't wait to have a bed that is just 'there' with no messing around. I've even discounted every boat with a cross-bed for exactly that reason, so it's not that i have something specific against a boatmans cabin.

 

This could be optimistic, but what is under there at the moment, and how deep is the space.

 

This is more usually done on boats with fairly deep hull sides, (say 4 feet minimum), or the space could be quite claustophobic.

 

Although this is not a very "low slung" tug, it doesn't look to have that deep a hull to me.

 

Another option is the kind of double that lives under the deck, but can at least be partially drawn out into the cabin for use, although even if possible, this would result in destruction of some cupboards. Looking at the internal shot looking forward to front doors, I still question "headromm" under that deck.

 

I have wondered the same thing. and the only way to tell is to view it. I guess there is also the question of what is under there at the moment aswell. Is it just empty space etc. If it is empty space and could be converted to a double berth, i have the idea that the white hatch in the middle of the tug deck would make a good sky light for summer nights looking up at the stars.

 

As you are a tug owner and someone with considerable knowledge on this type of boat (ok i know it's not quite in the bracket of historic yet....), can i ask your thoughts on the hull, age, engine etc. Should any of this give me concerns out of the ordinary? I would be getting a survey.

[ditchcrawler]

I take your point but there is a big difference between a cross bed and a BMC. We dont live aboard but do spend quite a bit of time on the boat and we sleep in the BMC, we also have a bed under the tugdeck for visitors but it comes out on rollers to sleep on. The BMC takes less than 1 minute and is less hassle than the under deck one. But at the end of the day its a personal choice thing.

[Athy]

The first boat by a country mile - not in perfect nick but so full of character. I have not heard of Lorenz Brothers, perhaps somebody would enlighten me regarding their boatbuilding exploits.

Lovely engine too (which DOES look in good nick), we had a Petter PH2 in our first boat, smoky when cold but reliable and emits correct noise. Spares probably available from Lister (who took Petter over circa 1985) as in fact they still produce the PH2 as a fixed-speed industrial unit.

You don't need to put a crossbed away every night. We have one on Trojan and we quite often leave it down unless we're going on a long cruise. If needs be, we just scramble over it.

[alan_fincher]

As you are a tug owner and someone with considerable knowledge on this type of boat (ok i know it's not quite in the bracket of historic yet....), can i ask your thoughts on the hull, age, engine etc. Should any of this give me concerns out of the ordinary? I would be getting a survey.

Yes, unless you are on for gambling a hull where the majority started life in 1979 as 1/4" is certainly worth surveying after 34 years!

 

The PH2 engines are lovely sounding, but you would need someone who knows more than I do to comment on spares availability. It is raw water cooled, so you need to check it has proper strainers and mud boxes to keep the crap from the canal out of the system. This is an area that is not always got right.

 

With only one domestic battery currently, you probably need to see if there is room to fit more. The fact it has a gas fridge will be saving on battery power, but if you ever need to swap that to an electric one, then I doubt you will survive s a full time live-aboard with a single domestic.

 

There is only a single alternator, that may not have that high a power output, but the good news is that there is a very large pulley on the engine driving it. This means that the alternator has a good chance of being spun fast enough to put out a good current, despite the fact this is a relatively slow revving engine.

 

In my view the boat looks as good as it does because it has a nice long tug deck. Many builders go for a shorter length, and the balance looks wrong to me. The fact thry have not gone for an "overly long" cabin really makes the difference IMO, but obviously the end result is less full height living space.

 

Despite the prettiness of the boat, it is old, and not that lavishly equipped, so the price sounds high to me. But I do like the boat.

 

I agree that the other one you posted looks boring and non-descript, and like others, I always feel that reverse layout boats with ports at the front and windows at the back are rather odd looking.

 

I'm kind of surprised anyone would be comparing two such different boats, though. in the nicest possible way, it does make me wonder if you really yet know what is most important to you!

The first boat by a country mile - not in perfect nick but so full of character. I have not heard of Lorenz Brothers, perhaps somebody would enlighten me regarding their boatbuilding exploits.

 

The Lorenz brothers have been involved with canals for years - I seem to recall based at somewhere like Worsley.

 

I remember them from the 1970s for a renamed working boat called Atilla, which you could hear approaching about 5 miles away!

 

Sadly I recall Dr Roger Lorenz, who was I believe was still very active on canals and rivers, died quite recently.

 

It may well have been reported on CWDF.

[junior]

I'm kind of surprised anyone would be comparing two such different boats, though. in the nicest possible way, it does make me wonder if you really yet know what is most important to you!

 

 

I want a 'tug style' or a Trad stern. 45ft-55ft with all portholes and side hatches. I'd love a vintage engine but it's not essential. I understand space will be a premium with this type of boat, but i do have a minimum ammount of space i could live with (i.e., Firefly doesn't have enough space). I'm also quite fussy about the interior, mainly the galley and bathroom, unless i can get the boat enough under budget that i can change this.

 

 

I wanted the BCN style tug that Dominic had up for sale last week. I couldn't view it as i was abroad but knew it would'nt last long at that price. I contemplated putting in a offer unseen as i was confident it was my perfect boat. While i was thinking about wether to do this it went under offer in little over 24hrs. Gutted.

 

I'm pretty certain of what i want. If i had an extra £10k i could go out tommorow and view 5 tug style boats and i'm sure one would be perfect. Unfortunately i'm working with a budget that means i have a lot less to choose from.

 

The reason i looked at the other boat is that i lovethe interior. I've not seen one with a interior like that (within my budget) so far. I'm not that smitten by the exterior, i do think it looks a bit wierd with the windows round the wrong way. It just looks a bit more of a sensible liveaboard and i could move straigh onto it and the interior would make up for the exterior. thing is, i don't realy do sensible. i want a tug with a vintage engine and i want to re-name it Brutus.

[Tuscan]

It still sounds like you are not sure what you want, vintage engine not essential then it is, don't do sensible but you like the sensible layout. I suspect you do sensible but like many still fancy the one that isn't. Comparing boats of the web doesn't work you have to try and get to see quite a few before finding the one that best fits your needs now. Photographs and broker descriptions can be very misleading.

[Athy]

 

i don't really do sensible.

Ah, you'll fit in well with the boat-owning community!

[junior]

It still sounds like you are not sure what you want, vintage engine not essential then it is, don't do sensible but you like the sensible layout. I suspect you do sensible but like many still fancy the one that isn't. Comparing boats of the web doesn't work you have to try and get to see quite a few before finding the one that best fits your needs now. Photographs and broker descriptions can be very misleading.

 

Believe me, i'm out and about looking. I've been from Brighton to Chester to view a boat that i thought was great (http://www.aqueductbrokerage.co.uk/#SLOE) but on arrival it became aparent that it wasn't suitable. I've looked at 30 or 40 plus boats and each one has changed my mind slightly on what i'm looking for. But i do know i want a tug style or a traditional looking boat with portholes, side hatches, pidgeon boxes etc.

 

The reason i posted this thread is that when i find one that i really think i'm going to like (like i have done twice before), i ask for more expert opinions than mine before going to view. I was talked out of one by forum members pointing out things i hadn't the experience to think of, and the other one was the one i've added the link to in this post. I ended up deciding for myself it wasn't suitable. I can't go and look at this boat for 7 days as i am in France. If i was in England i would have driven to look at 'Albion' today and THEN posted this thread. I bloody hope it doesn't sell in the mean time like the last one did.

Edited July 31, 2013 by junior

[mark99]

I think you are doing a smart thing.

[Neil2]

I'm not as wowed as others about that first boat, it has been stretched from 34' to 50' which may have affected how it swims/handles. I'd definitely "sea trial" it before getting too excited. As for the second a Transit 2.5 engine is a strange choice for a NB, these lumps are meant to be thrashing up and down the motorway not pottering up and down the Oxford canal, also It might be the "belted" variant of that engine in which case it is definitely a no-no. And why the perspex cover??? If it was a Gardner or a RN I could understand it but who wants to look at an old tranny engine running?

 

I know how easy it is to fall in love with a boat on the internet but how often does that boat turn out to be a big disappointment in the flesh?

[Athy]

Marinised Ford Transit engines (known, I think, as XLDs) were fitted into a fair number of narrowboats. I'm pretty sure that the Fox Boats hire fleet all had them at one time, because they were quite powerful and Fox's boats travel on rivers where a bit of extra power is an advantage.

[junior]

To be honest I don't think the second boat is a contendor, I just got sucked in by the unique interior.

[Kieron G]

If you're planning on venturing up the Ouse and back down it again into Selby lock then a narrowboat fitted with a transit engine could be just the job. Knowing you've got that extra power when you need it would be reassuring.

[junior]

If you're planning on venturing up the Ouse and back down it again into Selby lock then a narrowboat fitted with a transit engine could be just the job. Knowing you've got that extra power when you need it would be reassuring.

 

Where are these places you speak of? Are they up north? If so, it's ok because i try to avoid the north. The smog gets to my chest.

[Kieron G]

It's a bit ironic that your profile picture shows a steam train then. It's your loss if you never go to York and beyond.

[alan_fincher]

I'm not as wowed as others about that first boat, it has been stretched from 34' to 50' which may have affected how it swims/handles. I'd definitely "sea trial" it before getting too excited.

Generally, subject to the engine being up to the task, stretching a boat improves the handling, rather than adversely affects it.

 

I would be surprised if that boat has issues, and the PH2 engine is more than man enough for the stretched boat>

 

A Transit engine is, I believe, a very bad idea. Apart from any other question of its suitability, it isn't a great idea to have a diesel that is vastly too powerful, and only ever normally use at the bottom end of its power range. Far better that in everyday use they actually do some real work sometimes.

Edited July 31, 2013 by alan_fincher