MAGNETS ON FUEL LINES

[Davidss]

So are you claiming that the diamagnetic properties of diesel have an effect on the efficiency of an engine?

 

Or are you saying that diesel exhibits ferromagnetic properties? If so, how does this influence efficiency of the engine?

I'm saying what I've written.

I'm not letting you 'put words in my mouth'.

 

Regards

[Paul C]

I paraphrased what you wrote.

 

Ok lets make it simpler:

 

How does the magnet in the fuel line improve the efficiency of the engine?

[Davidss]

I paraphrased what you wrote.

 

Ok lets make it simpler:

 

How does the magnet in the fuel line improve the efficiency of the engine?

I don't know.

What I recounted was my personal experience, which is what I thought the OP wanted. I added some background which I found reinforced my initial experience.

 

In the light of comments by others, I feel I'd better add that at no time have I had personal or financial interest in any person or business selling 'fuel magnets', except as a one time customer.

Note that nowhere have I indicated my belief or otherwise in what some marketing or sales person has said. Criticism of me for being 'hoodwinked' is therefore not founded on fact.

I have recounted my experience, and the circumstances surrounding that experience.

 

Engines have been a hobby interest of mine for many years, but the budget is limited. While I can afford to buy and try various items, I cannot afford 'thousands' in order to R&D a particular product. To expect me to do so is unrealistic. To criticise me for not doing so is farcical.

I suspect many other hobbyists are in a similar position, whether their hobby is as a painter, trying different brushes and paints, a woodworker, trying different chisels and saws, or a cook, trying different recipes. The examples could go on and on.

 

Regards

[Paul C]

Ok no worries, at least you've been honest and said you perceived a positive effect, and that you don't know why this is so.

[BruceinSanity]

I always find these sort of threads entertaining as people try to justify the money they have wasted on some gadget, usually accompanied by some pseudo-scientific junk originating in some marketing department.

 

The claims are up there with psychics and spoon-benders and other charlatans who make claims to fool the gullible. Non have ever stood up to objective investigation. There have been several attempts to sell fuel enhancers, whether magnets or special pellets, over the years. These are some of the easier tricks to show up as it is relatively simple to measure the parameters of an engine with and without the magic ingredient.

 

I'm glad to believe that the magnetic fields used in MRI scanners, many million times stronger than any magnet you can hold in your hand, let my body molecules revert to their previous position once the field is collapsed.

 

And don't confuse magnets used in things like sump plugs to pick up swarf with anything that has an effect on fuel.

Greenie for that as well as one to Albion.

 

It seems to me to be Axiomatic that where systematic testing is possible to back up claims, but isn't cited, there are substantial grounds for scepticism. The technical term in psych for the phenomenon is cognitive dissonance reduction; if you pay out a lot of money for something, you have to believe that it was worth it.

 

Reminds me of the way one of my Occ Psych colleagues was described by an HR Director to his Board: "This guy is sh!t hot, he's costing us a grand a day!"

 

Not that I've anything against Occ Psychs, of course.

[larryjc]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_saving_device

 

Mind you I do remember being told many years ago that the Hurricanes sent to Russia in WW2 had magnets in their fuel lines to try and increase the octane rating of the crap Russian fuel. Whether this was more in hope than expectation I don't know. I've just done an internet search on the subject and nothing came up.

[dor]

 

 

Mind you I do remember being told many years ago that the Hurricanes sent to Russia in WW2 had magnets in their fuel lines to try and increase the octane rating of the crap Russian fuel. Whether this was more in hope than expectation I don't know. I've just done an internet search on the subject and nothing came up.

 

I believe that the story was that it was tin pellets.

 

The story was widely believed but I suspect it was a cover for something to do with the fuel being used or where it was sourced.

 

For something similar and more recent, try googling "carbonflo". Make sure google doesn't change it to carbonflow. This little bit of quackery was marketed to classic car owners after leaded petrol was withdrawn as it claimed to prevent the damage to valve seats caused by lack of lubrication from lead.

[Albion]

Carbonflo, now that rings a bell and the tin pellets. Try reading this good analysis (long but worth it) that I found on the web http://www.caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/articles/catalytic_but_fuel_savers.html

that investigates the claims but ends with the thoughts expressed above that if the vehicle manufacturers and the fuel manufacturers could make significant improvements with some magnets and tin they would have done it by now.

Roger

Edited July 3, 2013 by Albion

[John C]

For many years I worked at a business that had the facility to test petrol and diesel engines, during this time I witnessed many tests of the "latest fuel consumption improvement devices" including more than one magnet type. (NOT octane improvers or valve seat protection). We always approached the test with an open mind and without fail none of them made any difference what so ever. (Except one, a little "propeller" that sat between carburettor and inlet manifold that was supposed to mix up the petrol and air better than without the device, it caused a slight drop in power (efficiency) much to the dismay of the designer).

 

On one occasion we tested an engine without, had lunch, then tested with. There was an increase in power, very small but it was there. The customer was delighted until we pointed out that over the lunch break atmospheric pressure had risen a little, that accurately accounted for the slightly higher power output.

 

We thought no more of it until a colleague saw this device for sale, read the blurb on the packaging, it inferred that it was tested by ********** and had improved fuel consumption. Needless to say, it cost the guy a considerable sum of money to get his stock repackaged!

 

There is one thing that has improved engine efficiency over the last 30 years or so, electronics. How else would you get a 1200cc normally aspirated petrol engine to make 170bhp, run at 13:1 cr and still give 50mpg?

 

John

[Paul C]

 

There is one thing that has improved engine efficiency over the last 30 years or so, electronics. How else would you get a 1200cc normally aspirated petrol engine to make 170bhp, run at 13:1 cr and still give 50mpg?

 

John

 

Which engine is this???

[John C]

The one I was thinking of was a BMW motorcycle engine, but the Japanese and Italians have theirs as well.

[jenevers]

Here's the "bumph" ("bumf"?)

 

How and why it works

This is not an easy question to answer. However, there have been studies carried out on the effect of magnets on gas and flames and it is, therefore, the same principle for vehicle fuels. The studies were reported in the Physica B journal in January 1996 (volume 216 pages 403-405) by Nobuko Wakayama and Masaaki Sugie who were (and may still be) at the National Institute of Materials and Chemical Research in Japan.

In essence this research found that adding a magnet to gas did not change the chemical composition of the gas in any way, however, it did find that the gas became magnetised and that, because oxygen is paramagnetic (it is attracted to a magnetic field), there is a better oxygen-gas mix and this means that the gas is burnt more efficiently and at a higher temperature.

When applied to a liquid fuel the same affect occurs. The liquid fuel becomes magnetised so the molecules will align themselves within the magnetic field. When the fuel is mixed with air the magnetism within the fuel means that there is more oxygen mixed into the fuel than would otherwise have been the case. When the fuel is then ignited it will burn more efficiently and slightly hotter. The more efficient burn means that there are less unburnt hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide in the exhaust fumes. The net result of this is that your vehicle will go further on the same amount of fuel and you will save money. In addition, there will be less combustion build up because of the more efficient burn and, therefore, your engine should also have a longer life.

Special Consideration

• Diesel engines - you will need one unit for every 1200 cc (1.2 litres) of engine capacity. However, if you have mechanical injectors, you will require one unit on EACH injector line.
• On large diesel engines (including lorries, boats, combine harvesters etc) you will need one Fuel Miser on each injector line.

Trouble is, are injector lines on Gardners (for example) steel or copper? If they are steel, magnets wouldn't get through to the fuel anyway!

Edited July 3, 2013 by jenevers

[Bobbybass]

I've read that fitting a magnetic 'Arab strap' to one's groin will render the use of Viagra (and similar 'enhancing' drugs) completely unnecessary.

 

Should it be the same type of magnets as are fitted to fuel lines, and will the benefits be as noticeable?

 

I asked about the benefits of Viagra...and whether you could get it over the counter.

 

Apparently you can if you take 2.

[Paul C]

Here's the "bumph" ("bumf"?)

 

How and why it works

This is not an easy question to answer. However, there have been studies carried out on the effect of magnets on gas and flames and it is, therefore, the same principle for vehicle fuels. The studies were reported in the Physica B journal in January 1996 (volume 216 pages 403-405) by Nobuko Wakayama and Masaaki Sugie who were (and may still be) at the National Institute of Materials and Chemical Research in Japan.

In essence this research found that adding a magnet to gas did not change the chemical composition of the gas in any way, however, it did find that the gas became magnetised and that, because oxygen is paramagnetic (it is attracted to a magnetic field), there is a better oxygen-gas mix and this means that the gas is burnt more efficiently and at a higher temperature.

When applied to a liquid fuel the same affect occurs. The liquid fuel becomes magnetised so the molecules will align themselves within the magnetic field. When the fuel is mixed with air the magnetism within the fuel means that there is more oxygen mixed into the fuel than would otherwise have been the case. When the fuel is then ignited it will burn more efficiently and slightly hotter. The more efficient burn means that there are less unburnt hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide in the exhaust fumes. The net result of this is that your vehicle will go further on the same amount of fuel and you will save money. In addition, there will be less combustion build up because of the more efficient burn and, therefore, your engine should also have a longer life.

Special Consideration

• Diesel engines - you will need one unit for every 1200 cc (1.2 litres) of engine capacity. However, if you have mechanical injectors, you will require one unit on EACH injector line.
• On large diesel engines (including lorries, boats, combine harvesters etc) you will need one Fuel Miser on each injector line.

Trouble is, are injector lines on Gardners (for example) steel or copper? If they are steel, magnets wouldn't get through to the fuel anyway!

 

The research they did is inapplicable to this case. Basically, they're saying that a strong magnetic field promoted gas mixing, ie it increased combustion temperature due to better mixing, due to magnetism of the gas - and that combustion occurred within the magnetic field. But in the fuel magnet scenario, the magnet is placed on the fuel line, not the zone where diesel and air are mixed (which is within the cylinder, after the fuel has atomised in the fuel injector). The magnetic field in this area is negligible from the fuel magnet. And also (I've not downloaded the whole article, just read the summary, so extrapolating from the magnetic field strength) the magnetic fields they are talking about are many orders of magnitude greater than that capable by a typical "fuel magnet" device.

[lynalldisocvery]

Load of poo, if its as good as they say every car/truck maker would fit them as std kit, just to get better fuel figures than their competitors., sorry Jambo just noticed you post above!

Firm i worked for years ago did a trial on a volvo fl10 truck, they never bought any more so can assume it didnt work.

 

 

Lynall

[Guest]

Not original, but somebody on another forum suggested that the best way to save fuel with magnets, was to stick them on your front bumper, and hook up to the car in front. Made me laugh anyway.

 

I have read a few articles on the net, including some tests on a dyno by a car magazine, and magnets appear to do nowt. Perhaps they would stop some debris getting to the injectors, but other than that I remain unconvinced. I will put my faith in scientific test results.

 

I often think of a guy in a motorcycle magazine many years ago, who wrote an article about fitting a performance exhaust on his Japanese motorcycle. He claimed improved performance, which I can accept, but then he started to describe how he could do a given speed in top gear whilst the revs on the rev counter were now lower than with the standard exhaust. I stopped reading at that point. We see what we want to see sometimes (or what we paid for.) I used to know of a hairdressers that kept fancy bottles of hair conditioner on the shelf, so that customers could choose the conditioner of their choice (at a price of course.) Except they were all filled with Lenor.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Guest

[blackrose]

 

I brought up MRI to show that Magnetism could have an effect on 'matter' which is generally considered non-magnetic.

 

I didn't think MRI scanners were designed to have an effect on the human body or any other organic matter. I thought they were simply a diagnostic tool?

 

The magnets in MRI scanners are very powerful electromagnets. Anyone who's ever been inside one knows how noisy they are and interestingly what you're actually hearing is the electrical resistance of the magnets.

[Guest]

 

I didn't think MRI scanners were designed to have an effect on the human body or any other organic matter. I thought they were simply a diagnostic tool?

 

The magnets in MRI scanners are very powerful electromagnets. Anyone who's ever been inside one knows how noisy they are and interestingly what you're actually hearing is the electrical resistance of the magnets.

Thanks for that explanation Mike, I wasn't aware of that. It is certainly noisy; sounds like somebody knocking a house down.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Guest

[RLWP]

How do I get all this diesel off my magnet?

 

Richard

[Guest]

How do I get all this diesel off my magnet?

 

Richard

With a stronger magnet of course.

[Paul C]

How do I get all this diesel off my magnet?

 

Richard

 

By heating it up beyond its Curie Point!

[Guest]

 

By heating it up beyond its Curie Point!

Haven't heard that word in years!!

[RLWP]

There is no curie for this!

 

Incidentally, big samarium cobalt magnets don't have give you a nasty bite

 

Richard

[Grace and Favour]

There is no curie for this!

 

Incidentally, big samarium cobalt magnets don't have give you a nasty bite

 

Richard

Oh no! - - You didn't accept the challenge of keeping one in each of your two front pockets on your shorts, did you, Richard?????

[system 4-50]

I don't need magnets to get this improvement, I just confine my navigating to Ley lines.