RCR the 8 day wait I could just manage but the need to tell lies???

[Theo]

I was close! I notice mr kittsy aka ### was offering his services as a marine engineer in London in earlier posts. One to avoid I'd say!

 

I find it absolutely astonishing that someone who might want readers of this forum to employ him could write such stuff! How to put off potential customers without really trying!

 

Please keep his real business name out of posts. These people sometime need to be protected from themselves. He might just be a really good engineer with a short temper. I have removed the name from nicknorman's post.

 

Lovely bright weather. I wish I were on my boat.

 

N

[nicknorman]

 

I find it absolutely astonishing that someone who might want readers of this forum to employ him could write such stuff! How to put off potential customers without really trying!

 

Please keep his real business name out of posts. These people sometime need to be protected from themselves. He might just be a really good engineer with a short temper. I have removed the name from nicknorman's post.

 

Lovely bright weather. I wish I were on my boat.

 

N

I take the point, but the gentleman gave his name in an earlier post, which is where I got it from after 30 secs of searching! Edited April 28, 2013 by nicknorman

[kittsy]

yes im an engineer and avoid if you wish im just a little fed up with people rubbishing others when all they are doing is helping out the best they can everyone needs to start somewhere and these lads will learn from this assuming they even knew wot they did wrong, And please dont threaten me on line or make assumptions about me as a person or my business.

[nicknorman]

yes im an engineer and avoid if you wish im just a little fed up with people rubbishing others when all they are doing is helping out the best they can everyone needs to start somewhere and these lads will learn from this assuming they even knew wot they did wrong, And please dont threaten me on line or make assumptions about me as a person or my business.

No, they were not "helping out the best they can", they were charging professional rates for an allegedly professional service. It is the fact that you don't seem to think a customer should expect a correctly executed simple job from a professional, that is worrying.

[Paul C]

yes im an engineer and avoid if you wish im just a little fed up with people rubbishing others when all they are doing is helping out the best they can everyone needs to start somewhere and these lads will learn from this assuming they even knew wot they did wrong, And please dont threaten me on line or make assumptions about me as a person or my business.

 

I'd prefer if young mechanics learn stuff (and make their simple mistakes) at college, rather that on paying customers' boats.

[DHutch]

I can make no excuses for 'rubbishing' people and or in naming them against there will, and I will also say that as far as I'm aware although far from perfect RCR have a large number of happy customers. At very least, they remain in business year on year and have done for a while, so they are clearly doing something right.

 

However is does sadden me to read thread like this, and posts like the ones above. If you are paying for a service, particularly a recovery/emergency type service, the speed of resolution and the quality of information supplied during any set back is critical. As is the quality of the work done.

 

Nobody likes to spend a load of money on something, only for it to then fail the on time its used and assuming its not obscure being changed from the factory there isnt a lot of excuse in not coming with a suitable alternator if someone has taken the time to tell you the make/model of engine even if you need them to provide more information. Nor is there a lot of excuse for not maintaining the belt alignment if swapping a unit like for like. And then presumably, not checking the alignment on completion of the job.

 

Who knows, they dont provide cover for steam engines as far as I know, so have never been a member or looked closely at there pricing structure.

 

 

Daniel

[tree]

It is unfortunate when you are not happy with the service that you receive from a company,, any company in fact.

All i can add is that when I found out that my boat had sank last year, all the staff at RCR were really wonderful to me, they kept me updated daily ( I was living in South Wales at the time and being Self-employed couldnt take the time off that easily). The chap in the office was really helpful and reasurring and when I managed to get down to see my boat being lifted, the main man came over and took the time to explain what was happening as I was very upset at the time. The divers and engineers worked tirelessly in horrid icy cold conditions and I can never thank them enough. The service I received was 100% and most of all I didnt feel like just another number. I am not connected to RCR in any way.

I am sorry to hear that the OP had such problems but running any business is hard these days, and sometimes things dont go always to plan, I am glad that the OP got the problem sorted

 

Lorraine

edited for typos ... whoops

Edited April 28, 2013 by tree

[dor]

I agree with much of what you say Lorraine.

For many people RCR provide an excellent service. If you don't know how to fix your engine it can be a lifeline.

 

My problem is that in 10 years I never called them out. This is because firstly I look after my boat and fix things before they get critical and secondly if something does go wrong I can invariably fix it. Now RCR are very keen for people to take their courses and lean how to fix their boats themselves. This is clearly aimed at reducing callouts. However the no-claims discount they offer is paltry and just doesn't discourage people from calling them out. If car insurance NCB was only 5% I bet a lot more people would be claiming. On top of this, you read on here and elsewhere how people call them out for really trivial little things and I just feel "I'm paying for that".

Then they imposed a compulsory parts cover option with significant increase in cost. OK you can just pay them a retainer but why would you do that? you might just as well call a boatyard or mobile engineer if needed.

 

Lorraine, you and some other fortunate people have received outstanding service from RCR, but your situation is the exception.

[jim and pat dalton]

On principle and to make them think, I refused to pay the £50 excess when they asked last week. I know there will be a meeting about it today.

 

However this morning I have mellowed, maybe the sunshine and having got as far as Atherstone, I've decided to phone them up and pay it prompt at 09:00hrs. I think I have now really made my point.

 

My real beef with RCR is not entirely the total time it took (i've owned aircraft in the past so I'm used to waiting) but the lack of truth in the reassuring "It will be fixed tomorrow" and all the other B/S. Telling lies in order to either seem professional or palm the customer of is insulting and needlesly time wasting. Treating me like I was a stupid person to be ignored (I didn't pester them or anything) and be given contempt.

 

Tripping over those lies and empty excuses the next day is unimpressive, damaging and embarrassing to their brand

I've been consistent in my approach in that I wont take away my support for RCR because I think we really do need a service of that sort as in what happened to Tree (detailed above) and that poor boat at Ditchford Lock earlier this year and countless other smaller things that they have done under the terms of their subscription agreement.

 

But it is a service that is "paid for" and it is "they that are making the offer" So it should have a level of service equal to that they which "they" boast about.

 

I was given some great left base advice just after up my own Firework business by a customer (a very happy one) who is a Dentist!! "Teeth" are a good measure of business. Teeth he said are very nice to their owners. Ignore them and they will slowly go away. Customers ive noticed, are very much like teeth. So if you want to stay in business don't ignore them!"

Odd, but actually, I guess its very true.

Edited April 29, 2013 by jim and pat dalton

[mayalld]

yes im an engineer and avoid if you wish im just a little fed up with people rubbishing others when all they are doing is helping out the best they can everyone needs to start somewhere and these lads will learn from this assuming they even knew wot they did wrong, And please dont threaten me on line or make assumptions about me as a person or my business.

 

I don't think we need to make any assumptions about you or your business.

 

You put yourself forward as an engineer, you have given your forename and location in a previous post, and a quick google produces a very likely candidate whose full name seems to match your forum name.

 

You have expressed a view that if a boater pays good money for a professional to carry out work on his boat, and the work carried out is not in fact carried out to a professional standard, that is OK, and that the customer should simply accept that the contractor did his best, and that he has to learn somewhere.

 

If I want somebody to do his best, with the risk that the job might not get done properly, I'll do the job myself! If I'm paying somebody to do the job, I expect them to be competent, and to do the job properly.

 

Fortunately, I'm unlikely ever to be at risk of calling on your services. I do hope that people located nearer to you take into account your views on doing a professional job before engaging you.

[nicknorman]

 

I don't think we need to make any assumptions about you or your business.

 

You put yourself forward as an engineer, you have given your forename and location in a previous post, and a quick google produces a very likely candidate whose full name seems to match your forum name.

 

You have expressed a view that if a boater pays good money for a professional to carry out work on his boat, and the work carried out is not in fact carried out to a professional standard, that is OK, and that the customer should simply accept that the contractor did his best, and that he has to learn somewhere.

 

If I want somebody to do his best, with the risk that the job might not get done properly, I'll do the job myself! If I'm paying somebody to do the job, I expect them to be competent, and to do the job properly.

 

Fortunately, I'm unlikely ever to be at risk of calling on your services. I do hope that people located nearer to you take into account your views on doing a professional job before engaging you.

And a further bit of research reveals your likely candidate works for RCR, or at least has done in the past.

[rgreg]

My experience of RCR is positive. One time I needed them because a fuel filter supporting bracket had failed. Even though I have a reasonable understanding as to how to fix things and meticulously look after my boat, without welding equipment this could not be repaired. I do not know how easily I could have called a local engineer out at that time and place, but RCR dealt with it promptly and efficiently. As far as I'm concerned the subscription is well worth it.

[jim and pat dalton]

I had a phone message from the new General Manager saying he wanted to discuss a few things Unfortunately we were motoring down from Atherstone at the time and the phone was charging in the saloon. He tried again some hrs later but we were having a long progressive day so missed it again. Picked up the message when we stopped at Newbold for the night and return call the next day but this time we missed him!!

 

such is life

 

Happy Mayday everyone

[Tiggers]

Glad to see you finally got away safely, and thank you for the beer! I would say next time you're passing through, stop in and say hello, but I shall only be at Great Haywood Marina for another 3 weeks!

[mrsmelly]

Hi

 

My twopenneth. I had a drive plate failure on CHRISTMAS eve afternoon 2 years ago and rang RCR expecting no reply. They answered immediately and said an engineer would ring me ( fat chance I thought ) said engineer rang ten minutes later and diagnosed drive plate and asked if I didnt mind him not coming tomorrow ( christmas day ) but would come on BOXING day at 11 am. I said no problem. He came at bang on 11am on boxing day having driven over 100 miles and did new driveplate in just over an hour. Total cost 50 squid excess which I didnt even know as I was expecting full payment to be asked.

We all treat as we find but if that is not fantastic unbeatable service then I dont know what is

 

Tim

[jim and pat dalton]

Glad to see you finally got away safely, and thank you for the beer! I would say next time you're passing through, stop in and say hello, but I shall only be at Great Haywood Marina for another 3 weeks!

It was our pleasure Dawn, thanks for all the help from you guys. we arrived in Peterborough today with one more day to go to the destination. So we will be up to pick up the bongo on Saturday, might see you then.

 

Jim and Pat

[RCR]

Hi everyone,

 

There has clearly been a very significant amount of debate on the forum of late following a recent breakdown, and I thought it would be good for us to update the forum with the details of what proved to be a complex repair.

 

Firstly it is worth noting that Mr Dalton’s installation was not a simple one, as the gearbox could not be completely removed and could only be moved back 6-8 inches to allow access to the drive plate. Therefore all repairs to the drive plate had to be undertaken in this limited amount of space. The drive plate combination was not standard and had been customised.

 

The drive plate was removed, and found to be manufactured by Centra although it was coupled with an R&D back plate which was a very unusual combination. We are aware that the Centra drive plates are more robust and are usually installed to deal with harmonic issues in the gearbox. These drive plates and are now a standard installation for Nannie engines, due to their life expectancy and operational capabilities and Beta are now also following suit. The drive plates are not a cheap option and retail at approximately £360, which is over 3 times the cost of a standard R&D plate.

 

RCR could have replaced this item with a standard R&D drive plate, but opted to try and replace like for like as we did not want to risk repeated failures due to any unknown issues with the installation. The manufacturer was contacted with the drive plate number and we were informed that it was an obsolete part but that a replacement was available. The part was ordered and reassurances that no alternation to the part would need to be made, as it was a like for like replacement of the obsolete part.

 

The part arrived two days later (due to missing the post deadline) and an RCR engineer returned to fit the part. As detailed in Mr Dalton’s comments the engineer was struggling as the holes on the drive plate did not match up with the holes on the fly wheel. The parts lady popped down to have a look, and it became evident that there was an issue with the holes and that the engineer had not removed the old central bush, but due to the limited working area had not realised this.

 

Mr Dalton had been told by the local marina, who were unfortunately not in full receipt of the facts that the drive plate could be bought off the shelf. Following discussions regarding the reasons behind the need to replace like for like Mr Dalton indicated that he would accept an R&D plate, and the engineer went to Midland Chandlers to try and match it up. In the mean-time a photo of the part was faxed to R&D, and ASAP supplies to see if they had anything that might fit. R&D later confirmed that this was not an off the shelf product and would have had to have been made to measure.

 

Having exhausted all avenues in terms of an off the shelf product, although we knew that R&D could have produce one, it would mean sending the current product to them, getting a new plate made and then sent back and would have been a minimum of 3 days turnaround.

 

Therefore we looked at the option of taking the plate to a machining shop to have the additional holes drilled, however we ran the risk of voiding any warrantee, and therefore the option to return the part to the manufacture in Bradford to have it drilled was the best option.

 

Unfortunately the parts Lady who was hoping to undertake this was in hospital for an procedure that morning and was not fit to drive. So when Mr Dalton called for an update these option and the reasons behind the decisions were discussed and he offered to drive the part to Bradford if needed. As the engineer was now on another callout, we had to check that he still had the part, and confirm with Centra that they would undertake the drilling and could turn it around whilst we were waiting. This did result in a slight delay in updating Mr Dalton, but he was informed that we would get the part to Bradford and that one way or another we would insure he was on his way the following day.

 

The part was transported to the manufacturer who confirmed that the holes in the original were not standard and coupled with the R&D plate indicated a ‘custom installation’. The holes were drilled and the engineer returned to base.

 

All of our engineers were on rescue training the following day, and therefore we knew that we would need to arrange for a contractor to attend, Great Haywood marina was very local to the boat and therefore was an obvious choice even though we have 4 other contractor locally that we could have used.

 

At approx 11am the drive plate was delivered by the MD of RCR to Great Haywood Marine services and placed in the hands of the ‘Engineer’. He was asked if he had ever fitted one of these type of drive plates before and he confirmed that he hadn’t, she explained what needed to be done, that it was a custom installation and the back plate would need to be refitted. She also explained that it was of utmost importance that the job was completed today as the customer had been waiting a number of days and was rightly getting upset, and finally informed him that should he have any issues or need assistance with the installation to call us straight away.

 

At approx 3.30pm we had a call from Mr Dalton to update us that Great Haywood could not undertake the work, after a desperate call to other contractors in the area it became clear that no one was available for at least a few hours and as the installation was likely to take 3-4hrs that waiting until the following day to send one of the RCR engineers was the best option.

 

We fully appreciate Mr Dalton’s frustrations, but assure him that we did pull out all stops to turn his job around, and offer the best solution possible. Unfortunately the custom installation and relying on contractors did result in failures in our service, for which we do apologise.

 

Confirmation from all parties regarding the information detailed above is available on request. Mr Dalton has confirmed he does not want to make a complaint. The total cost of the repairs was £780 of which Mr Dalton paid £50 as it was covered by his RPC cover. The repair to the heating pipe was done as a gesture of goodwill, even though the customer had been notified of the issue on the original callout before work to remove the gearbox commenced.

 

As I mentioned at the start of this report, it is complex, and I am sorry about the length of the explanation.

 

We hope very much that everyone enjoys a good summer of cruising and that the excessive wind that has caused problems today for Mr Dalton quickly subside.

 

Best Regards

Steve Askew

General manager

River Canal Rescue

[nicknorman]

Steve as a casual observer it does seem that RCR were doing your best behind the scenes, I think the problem, which is a common one, relates mostly to communication failures between you and your customer. Communicating in a timely and accurate manner is a skill and does take time and resource. A cardinal sin would be to refrain from telling the customer the whole truth even if it not what the customer wants to hear. And bear in mind that sometimes, meaning is lost "in translation" and nuances of communication can sometimes be misinterpreted especially when not face to face.

Edited May 9, 2013 by nicknorman

[jim and pat dalton]

That's a reasonable reply from Steve, considering the other sides view and I accept there will be "always" be different viewpoint As to being informed of water leak before the work started as there was "non" nor was I informed at that point. That statement I'm afraid is in complete error and maybe its event is lost amongst the number of folk that had visited us from them.

The water leak, "was" noted by one of their staff on the "second" visit. It was a tiny gathering of fluid mixed with a bit of spily oil. We both puzzled as to where it came from and as there was a very old stain we thought there was maybe a little leak . The engine of course could not be started at this point..

But when the plate was fitted the RCR other engineer informed me that all was done but said as a caution you've got a slight leak from your calorifier I should keep an eye on it he said. I thought he was referring to that old stain but when I went back to look and started the engine (so now its pumping through the pipe to the calorifier) the leak was frankly spraying out of the bent and straightened so fractured pipe. A fracture in copper that was very clean and fresh on a pipe that was straight before the work commenced. we know this as we had been discussing the unusual configuration of tha calorifier before I tried to leave in the first place. Frankly it was a major leak and he had obviously seen that because he started the engine a couple of times for a short period.

 

I contacted RCR and whilst RCR admit no liability, they fixed it which was the right thing to do imo, as there was nothing wrong with it to begin with. I am very clear on that. I am very happy they got someone from Anglowelsh to fix it.

The drive plate has been running fine since but for a constant drip of water that was not present before, from the hydraulic drive coupling. I'm sure this only needs tightening up a bit to stop it and its one those things taht happen when you disturb something and put it back but on this trip I have no tools

Presently we are on Kings Dyke and thanks to the winds of well over 40mph we got pinned to a bank,

Whilst getting off the bank there was a burning smell and shortly after the Alternator/water pump belt broke. (note to self don't ever leave without a toolkit again). and we ended up back on the bank.

As no engineers were available at Foxes,I called RCR and in fact Steve shortly after, so he could enjoy the irony.

We have a belt now (thanks RCR man, who says the pulley on the alternator is 12mm and should be 10mm) and should be able to continue. <Tho Edited to say> whilst typing this I was running the engine to top up my batteries and the rubber burning has returned and the new belt is showing wear ,gulp> I will try and progress tomorrow.

As I said in my opening post and as identified by Nickorman above, communication is they key issue I didn't have a problem with the effort they made but I did about the mis-communications made as detailed

I have said from the start I still support RCR and what they are about. Today was what its about and thanks. It is an essential service and I know Steve has taken on board the comments I have made and I'm assured the same wont happen again.

Edited May 9, 2013 by jim and pat dalton

[RCR]

Hi everyone,

 

Thankyou very much for your feedback.

 

Yes I can confirm that as part of our continuous improvement process, We are reviewing how we keep our members informed of our progress in resolving breakdowns, particularly complex cases.

 

Your feedback is always welcome, and please feel free to contact me directly with ideas and suggestions.

 

Happy Cruising.

 

Best Regards

 

Steve Askew

General Manager

River Canal Rescue

email: steve.askew@rivercanalrescue.co.uk