Locks on Grand Union

[jelunga]

I leave locks closed unless someone is about to enter.

Absolutely agree. All this crap about leaving open is just lazy, unless notices say to the contrary.

[RickH]

As someone who frequently boats single handedly, I could disagree with the total nonsense you have just written more.

 

 

 

Spot on.

 

Exactly , why would you close the gates when you have yet to put your boat in the lock ?

[BargeeSpud]

There is a tendency for top gates on a lot of GU locks to "blow" open if the boat stops with the stern just outside the top gate to allow lock crew to rejoin the boat. This can sometime be avoided if the boat moves further away from the lock to allow the lock crew to rejoin the boat.

 

When I leave a lock through the top gates, I always come to a full stop right on the corner of the lock approach just past the ground paddle. My crew can then step on, I don't have to maneuver back out into the canal from the side & the top gates don't get blown open. Usually! But then I don't blast off away from the lock, I take it nice & slow.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Spuds

[blackrose]

Do you not also give thanks when you get To a flight of locks that are set in your favour with gates open?

 

Or curse even louder when you reach a flight which is in your favour with all the gates shut and just enough water in each lock to prevent you opening the gates?

 

I know I do.

 

Very true.

 

But is it not possible for a boater to look back at the gates behind him before he leaves the lock, and then close the second set if necessary? It requires no effort at all if you're going downhill, and only very little when going uphill.

 

If you're single-handed it takes quite a bit of effort.

 

When I leave a lock through the top gates, I always come to a full stop right on the corner of the lock approach just past the ground paddle. My crew can then step on, I don't have to maneuver back out into the canal from the side & the top gates don't get blown open. Usually! But then I don't blast off away from the lock, I take it nice & slow.

 

What's "crew"?

[Tam & Di]

 

If you're single-handed it takes quite a bit of effort.

 

 

 

I was referring to the effort required to look back at the gates behind you as you are about to leave the lock. I they are leaking then the other set might need to be closed, if not then there is not a lot of point.

[alan_fincher]

When I leave a lock through the top gates, I always come to a full stop right on the corner of the lock approach just past the ground paddle. My crew can then step on, I don't have to maneuver back out into the canal from the side & the top gates don't get blown open. Usually! But then I don't blast off away from the lock, I take it nice & slow.

Yes, but actually quite hard to "hover" far enough away from the gates that you can step off yourself to shut them, if no other crew available. (And it is embarrassing to see an unoccupied boat set off away from the lock apron in the wind without you!...)

 

Our deep draughted boat is also far more likely to result in the gates opening again than our shallower draughted one as you pull away above a GU lock, because more water has to be drawn from somewhere nearby to "fill the hole it is moving out of". Sometimes carefully directing the prop wash can be used to push the gates back shut, but it is a bit of a black art, and it doesn't always work!

 

I concede it is often difficult to get the gates to stay shut, but if it is, they may well not be the ones where it is most important, if they will not. On the other hand, where you get a set that comes together with a convincing thump, and stays shut easily, those are probably exactly the ones most in need of shutting, because that may well be an indication that the gates or paddles at the other end are leaking worse than many.

[Chris Pink]

...and if they were balanced properly they'd shut on their own if there was any flow.

[BargeeSpud]

Yes, but actually quite hard to "hover" far enough away from the gates that you can step off yourself to shut them, if no other crew available. (And it is embarrassing to see an unoccupied boat set off away from the lock apron in the wind without you!...)

 

Granted, I'd be taking a risk leaving the tiller to close a gate myself, not worth watching your boat disappear into the middle of, or down, the cut with no one onboard. To-oo risky!

 

When I do my stop, I rev hard-ish & the flow of water to the bow from my prop creates a "vacuum" between my swim & the curve of the lock wall sucking the boat firmly in, at which point I take her out of gear with power right off & she usually stays put whilst TW closes the gate & steps aboard. I only do this when I have locking crew with me. Single handed, I'd be tying her up before going back to close the gate.

[blackrose]

I was referring to the effort required to look back at the gates behind you as you are about to leave the lock. I they are leaking then the other set might need to be closed, if not then there is not a lot of point.

 

I see.

[Pluto]

You Misunderstood!

The locks were designed and built with the bywash through the top ground paddle sluices as was the GU, its not a new addition.

When the canal was rebuilt the top sluices stayed the same but they mistakenly raised the level of the bottom gates.

Nothing will change even when the bottom gates are replaced as CRT dont admit there was mistake!

Lock 59 on the GU has the same problem BW never admitted they had got it wrong.

With the system using the upper ground paddle as the bywash, the bottom gate should be very slightly higher than the 'weir' or 'airhole' at the ground paddle. If the gate is lower you can end up with a slight variation in level at the upper gates making them difficult to open. Ducie Street Lock on the Rochdale had this problem for many years after the canal first reopened in Manchester. On the Peak Forest, the bottom gates can be much higher as the locks at Marple also have the lower ground paddles acting as bywashes. The system relies upon someone ensuring that the 'airhole' does not get blocked by rubbish, something which conventional bywashes are better at coping with, and it was probably for that reason that they fitted bywashes to the Peak Forest locks at a later date.

On whether old boatmen left lock gates open, we only have good knowledge of what happened in the last century, when canals were in decline post the First World War. The various 18th century printed Byelaws requiring gates to be closed does suggest that at one time this was expected, and that boatmen would be prosecuted for not doing so.

[Mike Todd]

For total clarity.....

 

I'm absolutely convinced that if all locks were 100% watertight at both ends, by far the most efficient way of working would be to leave gates open at the exit end, (and even to leave paddles up, because then ensuring they are properly down before operating a lock becomes the responsibility of the boat going through at the time, you are not reliant on someone else having dropped them fully).

 

Working boaters didn't operate this way out of cussedness - they did it because it is a no brainer that it is the fastest most efficient way of operating. Old photos and film clearly establish they left GU locks gates open, and paddles up, except at those having odd customs, (e.g. Cowley).

 

However, these days, all locks are far from 100% watertight, and drained or part drained pounds are regularly a problem on parts of the GU. For that reason I follow the current day way of doing things, even when on the 1936 boat.

 

I do understand why people don't, but actually I think these days that they should.

But it should be remembered that those working boats would have had someone lock wheeling so that any time taking setting a lock with the opposite end gates open would not lose time accordingly. However, they could not afford to have someone coming along behind to shut the gates. The lock wheeler could well be an older child, latterly on a bike, but originally just on foot. It was a hard life right from the start and one should be careful transferring their practice to modern day cruising practices.

 

Granted, I'd be taking a risk leaving the tiller to close a gate myself, not worth watching your boat disappear into the middle of, or down, the cut with no one onboard. To-oo risky!

 

When I do my stop, I rev hard-ish & the flow of water to the bow from my prop creates a "vacuum" between my swim & the curve of the lock wall sucking the boat firmly in, at which point I take her out of gear with power right off & she usually stays put whilst TW closes the gate & steps aboard. I only do this when I have locking crew with me. Single handed, I'd be tying her up before going back to close the gate.

You could take a stern strap off as a precaution. (Which is how I work a flight with the crew ahead setting and me closing)

[alan_fincher]

But it should be remembered that those working boats would have had someone lock wheeling so that any time taking setting a lock with the opposite end gates open would not lose time accordingly. However, they could not afford to have someone coming along behind to shut the gates. The lock wheeler could well be an older child, latterly on a bike, but originally just on foot. It was a hard life right from the start and one should be careful transferring their practice to modern day cruising practices.

Except that it is no "harder life", nor does it take significantly longer, to close gates on a lock on arrival if you need to, versus the difficulties that can be caused by trying to close them when you leave. You can always go straight into a lock that is in your favour, and leave one you have just been through with no further faffing about.

 

The least effort way of working (overall) is to leave all gates open on exit. This has been done to death before, and it is simply not possible to reach any other logical conclusion - honestly it isn't, and I don't intend toi go there again.

 

If nothing ever leaked it would still be by far the best way to operate.

 

But things do leak, so I think the philosopical arguments about which is either faster or less work go out of the window, as we have to adopt to a canal system that is often not as well maintained as would be ideal.

 

Incidentally leaving gates open, and each crew telling those they passed how many locks they could expect to find in their favour, was exactly one way working boat people cut down on it being "a hard life". If they knew they didn't need a lock wheeler ahead for the next 6 locks, they didn't send one ahead - a luxury denied to us these days if we want to get along quickly, because even if all locks would have been in our favour under old ways of working, all will now still need at least the gates opened and (on the GU more often than not), at least partial filling or emptying.

 

I'd gladly go back t the 1960s way of operating if no other considerations applied, but I don't think it is now appropriate for people trying to cling to that way of working.

[BargeeSpud]

 

You could take a stern strap off as a precaution. (Which is how I work a flight with the crew ahead setting and me closing)

The only strapping I would ever consider is the strapping of my beligerent crew!

 

Or should that be the other way round?

[onionbargee]

As a singlehander I must say I find it a pain in the arse when I find some self-righteous plonker has left the gates open, especially on a long flight when I have to walk round and close every damn one. BW has been advising for as long as I can remember to close paddles and gates, and I must say that I think it's just sheer bloodymindedness of the few who reckon they know better than BW, CART and the majority of boaters. They probably wear peaked hats and polish their brass every day too.

PS that last sentence was a joke before I get hammered for it. The rest, though, isn't. Shut the damn gates!

Closing gates in areas like the southern GU which is in flood at the mo is also self righteous Arthur, you are making work for yourself and denying everyone else an open lock. Knowing better than CRT is not hard. Some people belive in keeping an effecient way of working locks alive, and not dumbing down. There may be some one following behind you cursing you too.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

As a singlehander I must say I find it a pain in the arse when I find some self-righteous plonker has left the gates open, especially on a long flight when I have to walk round and close every damn one. BW has been advising for as long as I can remember to close paddles and gates, and I must say that I think it's just sheer bloodymindedness of the few who reckon they know better than BW, CART and the majority of boaters. They probably wear peaked hats and polish their brass every day too.

PS that last sentence was a joke before I get hammered for it. The rest, though, isn't. Shut the damn gates!

 

If ive spent time mooring up, then it's not much additional effort to close the gates that are open. I don't get mardy I get on with it.

 

But what a relief when you can enter straight into the lock because the gates are open in your favour.

 

I shut the gates of the locks that appear to leak badly (generally most).

But if not, then I'm off.

I don't call this bloody mindlessness.

Try relaxing a little and don't get so uptight.

 

Glenn

[Iain_S]

Closing gates in areas like the southern GU which is in flood at the mo is also self righteous Arthur, you are making work for yourself and denying everyone else an open lock. Knowing better than CRT is not hard. Some people belive in keeping an effecient way of working locks alive, and not dumbing down. There may be some one following behind you cursing you too.

 

If they were following, they'd be cursing Arthur harder if he'd left his exit gates open ...

 

Iain

[Ray]

And do you curse if you get to a lock with an open bottom gate only to find the pound above is dry (because the gate had been left open)?

 

I can name you several locks where the leak is not visible unless you specifically know where to look and even that is not always possible.

 

Having gone from the southern GU onto the Lee and back in late March a couple of years ago and found all but about 30 of the 180 odd locks against us and most with the far end gates open I was even more concerned to make sure I always close up behind me - as I always have done, havng been taught that way when I first started boating in the early 1970s.

[onionbargee]

Except that it is no "harder life", nor does it take significantly longer, to close gates on a lock on arrival if you need to, versus the difficulties that can be caused by trying to close them when you leave. You can always go straight into a lock that is in your favour, and leave one you have just been through with no further faffing about.

 

The least effort way of working (overall) is to leave all gates open on exit. This has been done to death before, and it is simply not possible to reach any other logical conclusion - honestly it isn't, and I don't intend toi go there again.

 

If nothing ever leaked it would still be by far the best way to operate.

 

But things do leak, so I think the philosopical arguments about which is either faster or less work go out of the window, as we have to adopt to a canal system that is often not as well maintained as would be ideal.

 

Incidentally leaving gates open, and each crew telling those they passed how many locks they could expect to find in their favour, was exactly one way working boat people cut down on it being "a hard life". If they knew they didn't need a lock wheeler ahead for the next 6 locks, they didn't send one ahead - a luxury denied to us these days if we want to get along quickly, because even if all locks would have been in our favour under old ways of working, all will now still need at least the gates opened and (on the GU more often than not), at least partial filling or emptying.

 

I'd gladly go back t the 1960s way of operating if no other considerations applied, but I don't think it is now appropriate for people trying to cling to that way of working.

My worry is that C&RT will put the extra work onto boaters instead of fixing leaks, which is what they did when BW came up with the close every gate rule years ago, maybe we should insist on higher standards of maintainance rather than roll over.

[ChimneyChain]

Well when CART get there arse in gear and put volunteer lock keepers at nearly all the locks then there will be no need to worry about closing or opening gates again.

 

Darren