Locks on Grand Union

[Peter Thornton]

We've spent the last 3 weeks on the Grand Union ( and are hoping it stops snowing so that we can get back from Tring summit to Stockton Top by Friday!) and have a couple of questions about the locks.

 

Firstly, what's the current practice regarding the closing of gates? We always close them behind us but we've passed several boats that look as if they know what they are doing and seem to have left the gates open. I know that they sometimes blow open in the wind but most of them have been left open deliberately. I have to admit that with just two of us I do welcome the sigh of an open gate ahead of us though!

 

Secondly, why do some locks have a request to leave them empty with a paddle up? Some have cottages next to them and some don't, I did wonder if it was to stop damp leaking into he cottages?

 

And if anyone's going North from Tring tomorrow then we're happy to share!

[Marky_Mark]

Many of the lock walls leak in that area,

[alan_fincher]

Many years ago the convention was to leave exit gates open, (and often the paddles on the exit gate were left up as well - certainly what working boatmen invariably did).

 

However these days CRT advice is to close all gates and paddles, unless there are specific instructions to the contrary.

 

Most people will do that, although there is a hard core of people who (particulatrly South of Berkhamsted) say this is pointless, and will always leave gates open, (including some forum members who have known the canal for years).

 

Personally, if nothing is coming, we "close up", because that is most people's expectation, even though there are often sound arguments for not bothering.

 

The "leave a bottom paddle drawn" thing does relate to leakage at the locks, and in some cases is to stop flooding of cellars of neighbouring cottages through leaky lock walls. It is not exclusively so, though, because you will have come through several with that instruction, but no cottage(s)!

 

It has never been helped that many of the locks have one set of "custom" signage saying "leave a paddle up", but still have as well the usual signs telling you to close all paddles and gates at both ends.

 

Once you are North of Berkhamsted the case for "closing up" everywhere becomes much stronger. Except in wet spells like we have now, water shortages often cause severe problems, and many of the locks have at least one set of gates that leak like a sieve. By closing both sets you are often stopping a lot of water draining away.

 

Others will disagree with what I have said, but you'll upset less people if you "close up" than leave them open.

 

My remarks apply to the Grand Union - if you had got round as far as the Lee and Stort, then different conventions usually apply.

[matty40s]

Unless the lock notices state otherwise, I will usually leave the gate I exit by open on the GU. It is a 50/50 chance that someone will come either way, and if it is coming towards the lock I have just left, saves them time(mooring up, open gate, back on boat and forward). Someone following me will not lose any time(maybe 20 seconds) by my actions.

[alan_fincher]

Unless the lock notices state otherwise, I will usually leave the gate I exit by open on the GU. It is a 50/50 chance that someone will come either way, and if it is coming towards the lock I have just left, saves them time(mooring up, open gate, back on boat and forward). Someone following me will not lose any time(maybe 20 seconds) by my actions.

This ignores the fact that (in particular) some of the bottom gates leak appallingly.

 

Leaving gates open when there is regular traffic may not be that bad, but if you do it at non busy times, (or even at busy times and you are last boat of the day), then (particularly usually if you leave a top gate ope)n this may result in a pound going down severely overnight that might not have done so had you closed all gates.

 

Yes, I know this is only true at certain locks.

 

Yes, I know that often the gates will not stay shut if you do close them.

 

Yes, I know that sometimes you close up, and water is cascading over gates within minutes.

 

But the harsh reality is that unless you know individual locks, a lot of water is regularly lost because people are doing what you suggest.

 

So I do disagree with your approach, I'm afraid, even if it generally makes life easier for people. You are ignoring the water saving part of the argument.

[Dovetail]

From Watford going south I will 50/50 decide to close gates when going up, its much easier when singlehanded but nearly always leave gates open when going down. One exemption to this is Hanwell Flight when I close all gates regardless. I never leave paddles open apart from when instructed to.

[BargeeSpud]

 

 

Most people will do that, although there is a hard core of people who (particulatrly South of Berkhamsted) say this is pointless, and will always leave gates open, (including some forum members who have known the canal for years).

 

 

I'm south of Berkhamstead & I must be in the minority. We have always closed everything when we leave a lock unless we see someone working towards us.

 

My pet hate is those that leave gate paddles slightly open, especially when there are notices instructing boaters to leave a lock empty. I just wish they'd open them fully so you can clearly see they're open when you arrive. Sometimes it's easy to miss when a gate paddles's only raised an inch or two.

 

[blackrose]

What's the situation with closing gates on the K&A - same as the GU?

[alan_fincher]

I'm south of Berkhamstead & I must be in the minority. We have always closed everything when we leave a lock unless we see someone working towards us.

No, I don't think you are in the minority.

 

Usually I would say most close up, and it is a definite minority that do not.

 

However I must admit lately I have seen far more tendency to leave gates open, even North of Berko.

 

Whether this is people thinking there is enough water about that it doesn't matter at the moment, i don't know, but definitely best not done when water is less plentiful.

 

In my experience, single handers seem more likely to leave gates open, but I guess it is obvious why that is the case.

[blackrose]

I was leaving one of the Bourne End locks (south of Berko) a few years ago, going uphill. As I went to pull my boat up to the lock landing so that I could go back and shut the gates one of the BW workers who was working nearby waved me on - telling me not to bother. Whether this was because they could see I was on my own moving a widebeam, or because they would shut thee gates themselves I don't know, but when I looked back from 100 yards up the canal they hadn't shut the gates.

[Arthur Marshall]

As a singlehander I must say I find it a pain in the arse when I find some self-righteous plonker has left the gates open, especially on a long flight when I have to walk round and close every damn one. BW has been advising for as long as I can remember to close paddles and gates, and I must say that I think it's just sheer bloodymindedness of the few who reckon they know better than BW, CART and the majority of boaters. They probably wear peaked hats and polish their brass every day too.

PS that last sentence was a joke before I get hammered for it. The rest, though, isn't. Shut the damn gates!

Edited March 24, 2013 by Arthur Marshall

[Ray]

There is a tendency for top gates on a lot of GU locks to "blow" open if the boat stops with the stern just outside the top gate to allow lock crew to rejoin the boat. This can sometime be avoided if the boat moves further away from the lock to allow the lock crew to rejoin the boat.

 

I always make every effort to close top gates - and have been known to temporarily draw a bottom paddle to slightly drain the lock to keep the gates shut - because, as Alan has said, so many of the bottom gates leak, that if top gates are left open the pound above the lock drains.

 

Last season we were ascending the Buckby flight late in the day and assumed we'd be the last boat through the flight because of the time of day. I even walked back down to one lock that I'd just left in order to close the top gates that had "blown" after the boat and the lock crew had departed for the next lock.

 

It transpired that we were not the last boat through the flight as one came through a couple of hours later.

 

For some reason which now escapes me I had cause to walk back down the flight the following morning to find a drained pound above the lock with the gates that I'd specifically ensured were closed.

 

Last week I moved a boat in Milton Keynes. I was very surprised to see five other boats moving in the short time that I was on the boat I was moving.

 

Both these instances tend to indicate that there is no rime or reason as to how many boats will be moving or when and because of the number of leaky lock gates I believe it is always best to close gates unless instructed not to do so or there is a boat approaching the lock that I am just leaving.

 

Why do we close gates when we can see a boat approaching from behind and then not do so when we can't see the same boat, that may be just a few seconds from coming into view?

Edited March 24, 2013 by Ray

[GUMPY]

As a singlehander I must say I find it a pain in the arse when I find some self-righteous plonker has left the gates open, especially on a long flight when I have to walk round and close every damn one.

Do you not also give thanks when you get To a flight of locks that are set in your favour with gates open?

 

Or curse even louder when you reach a flight which is in your favour with all the gates shut and just enough water in each lock to prevent you opening the gates?

 

I know I do.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Loddon

[Dovetail]

I am amused when I read we always close the gates as I often think the wife always closes the gate

[GSer]

What's the situation with closing gates on the K&A - same as the GU?

 

 

I'm not too sure if its the same on the GU, but on the K&A most of the leave empty locks are marked as such because their byweirs are in the top gate paddle gear, the height of these weirs dictate the waterlevels in the pound above, if the lock is left full then the bottom gates set the level and that is often too high.

 

As for leaving gates open, peronally i never leave top gates open but i will sometimes leave bottom gates open, i always leave paddle set closed unless instructed otherwise.

[GUMPY]

I'm not too sure if its the same on the GU, but on the K&A most of the leave empty locks are marked as such because their byweirs are in the top gate paddle gear, the height of these weirs dictate the waterlevels in the pound above, if the lock is left full then the bottom gates set the level and that is often too high.

 

 

Its to high because the bottom gates were built wrong.

The original concept was the same as the GU, bottom gates same as the weir level allowing the lock to act as a weir whether it was full or empty, however somehow this got lost when the gates were replaced.......

The same has happened on some locks on the GU

[GSer]

Its to high because the bottom gates were built wrong.

The original concept was the same as the GU, bottom gates same as the weir level allowing the lock to act as a weir whether it was full or empty, however somehow this got lost when the gates were replaced.......

The same has happened on some locks on the GU

 

 

Seems a bit strange, i'd have thought the lowering the top edge of a bottom gate would be alot cheaper than re- engineering the top paddle gear. So i don't see that being the reason. The most popular fix now is to introduce a by-weir around the locks allowing the lock to be left shutdown and the levels controlled by the top weir.

[Tuscan]

We close gates and drop paddles on exit, however they do have a tendency to blow open north of Marsworth. On the odd occasion I am single handed I leave open unless there isa boat in sight.

[Morat]

I leave locks closed unless someone is about to enter.

[Speedwheel]

As a singlehander I must say I find it a pain in the arse when I find some self-righteous plonker has left the gates open, especially on a long flight when I have to walk round and close every damn one. BW has been advising for as long as I can remember to close paddles and gates, and I must say that I think it's just sheer bloodymindedness of the few who reckon they know better than BW, CART and the majority of boaters.

 

As someone who frequently boats single handedly, I could disagree with the total nonsense you have just written more.

 

Do you not also give thanks when you get To a flight of locks that are set in your favour with gates open?

 

Or curse even louder when you reach a flight which is in your favour with all the gates shut and just enough water in each lock to prevent you opening the gates?

 

I know I do.

 

Spot on.

[Mike Tee]

In an ideal canal world with no leaking gates, it makes common sense to leave the gates open when you leave. However, it is not ideal, and I can't see the day when C&RT sort every lock to make it so.

So despite often cruising singlehanded where I would like to leave gates open, and have a 50/50 chance of not having to moor just to open the lock, I am grudgingly with the team that shuts everything. At least that way, we all do the same and know what to expect as we arrive at a lock - apart from the few (and I think it is a few) who stick to the old working boat ways.

[alan_fincher]

For total clarity.....

 

I'm absolutely convinced that if all locks were 100% watertight at both ends, by far the most efficient way of working would be to leave gates open at the exit end, (and even to leave paddles up, because then ensuring they are properly down before operating a lock becomes the responsibility of the boat going through at the time, you are not reliant on someone else having dropped them fully).

 

Working boaters didn't operate this way out of cussedness - they did it because it is a no brainer that it is the fastest most efficient way of operating. Old photos and film clearly establish they left GU locks gates open, and paddles up, except at those having odd customs, (e.g. Cowley).

 

However, these days, all locks are far from 100% watertight, and drained or part drained pounds are regularly a problem on parts of the GU. For that reason I follow the current day way of doing things, even when on the 1936 boat.

 

I do understand why people don't, but actually I think these days that they should.

[Tam & Di]

In an ideal canal world with no leaking gates, it makes common sense to leave the gates open when you leave. However, it is not ideal, and I can't see the day when C&RT sort every lock to make it so.

So despite often cruising singlehanded where I would like to leave gates open, and have a 50/50 chance of not having to moor just to open the lock, I am grudgingly with the team that shuts everything. At least that way, we all do the same and know what to expect as we arrive at a lock - apart from the few (and I think it is a few) who stick to the old working boat ways.

 

But is it not possible for a boater to look back at the gates behind him before he leaves the lock, and then close the second set if necessary? It requires no effort at all if you're going downhill, and only very little when going uphill.

[Dovetail]

I have just reached the top of the Hanwell flight and happily filling up with water at Norwood Top lock.

On this occasion the last boat down the flight left all but the bottom two locks open “boo” to them but this made life easy for me “a happy bunny”

Next time what will it be, open in favor, open against or closed?

I closed all the gates as this is easy going up including the two locks that when the lock is full open and close at will with the slightest wind and they lived up their reputation

[GUMPY]

Seems a bit strange, i'd have thought the lowering the top edge of a bottom gate would be alot cheaper than re- engineering the top paddle gear. So i don't see that being the reason. The most popular fix now is to introduce a by-weir around the locks allowing the lock to be left shutdown and the levels controlled by the top weir.

You Misunderstood!

The locks were designed and built with the bywash through the top ground paddle sluices as was the GU, its not a new addition.

When the canal was rebuilt the top sluices stayed the same but they mistakenly raised the level of the bottom gates.

Nothing will change even when the bottom gates are replaced as CRT dont admit there was mistake!

Lock 59 on the GU has the same problem BW never admitted they had got it wrong.