Leisure mooring lowdown

[Halesowenmum]

Hello y'all

 

Just wondered if any kindly soul can direct me to or explain to me a bit more about the rules around leisure moorings. I have got the gen on CCing now, and on residential, but the leisure moorings bit is a tad of a grey area with quite differing views. So I guess my questions are:

 

What are the official rules on how you manage a leisure mooring, how often do you have to clear off, etc and so forth?

 

You must I guess have to have some kind of a log book - is that correct?? - and then they can see that you're doing what you should be?? But also I understand they can come and watch you and log what you do... Are you in trouble if you don't have a land-based address which is thus interpreted as you are actually residential??

 

Also, what is the enforcement action that they can carry out? Just wanted to know how it all works - eyes open and forewarned is forearmed and all that.

[Paul C]

I guess they'll vary slightly, but I'd imagine almost all leisure moorings have terms and conditions which you agree to and sign prior to putting your boat there. One of these conditions will be that the boat's not used for residential purposes.

[Thorfast]

Is everyone on this forum paranoid......or does it just seem that way?

[Ex- Member]

Is everyone on this forum paranoid......or does it just seem that way?

 

 

 

CaRT possibly

[ditchcrawler]

Is everyone on this forum paranoid......or does it just seem that way?

Its almost like the "how do I prove what I used my diesel for" threads.

[Lady Muck]

Hello y'all

 

Just wondered if any kindly soul can direct me to or explain to me a bit more about the rules around leisure moorings. I have got the gen on CCing now, and on residential, but the leisure moorings bit is a tad of a grey area with quite differing views. So I guess my questions are:

 

What are the official rules on how you manage a leisure mooring, how often do you have to clear off, etc and so forth?

 

You must I guess have to have some kind of a log book - is that correct?? - and then they can see that you're doing what you should be?? But also I understand they can come and watch you and log what you do... Are you in trouble if you don't have a land-based address which is thus interpreted as you are actually residential??

 

Also, what is the enforcement action that they can carry out? Just wanted to know how it all works - eyes open and forewarned is forearmed and all that.

On Crt moorings no. Your terms and conditions are the same whether its leisure or residential. There is a clause that refers you to the local authority to check the specific planning for a site. I've no idea what it is for our site and I dont know anyone who ever checked either or even how one would find out. As for log books and watching and checking - are you serious? It would cost a fortune and what would be the point? A CRT mooring warden manages hundreds of sites. Im lucky to see ours once a year, she is rushed off her feet.

Because CRT dont really care what you do with your boat. If you breach the planning rules for the site then its the local authority that you are in trouble with, not CRT.

NB I am talking about moorings here not marinas.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Lady Muck

[Halesowenmum]

> Thorfast and Lady Muck:

 

Am I serious? Yes. Why? Because of threads on these forums which relates tales of people being watched, told off, told to move on etc and so forth - I am not 'paranoid'.

 

I am seeking to find the most secure situation for me and my children and some of the threads on here have been quite concerning to me as to security of NB living (on at least one thread phrases like 'there is no security of tenure' for example, bear some investigation). Eg, I've also heard 'you could be totally happy on a residential mooring then find it's not renewed at the end of its term'. So, I must, sensibly, look at what are the alternatives if this should happen, or if I sell my house, get a NB but don't have a residential mooring yet - what will I do and will I be compliant with whatever rules and regulations are out there based on whatever choice I make. That would seem to be a sensible approach to take rather than winging it, crossing fingers, hoping for the best, then finding myself in some kind of a pickle - wouldn't you say so?

 

I'm sure you'll agree that it would be sensible to have a thorough understanding of the alternatives to a residential mooring - and a full understanding of the implications of being residential on a leisure mooring and what this could mean for me, my family, and my boat. It's not an argument I'm after, it's facts so I can make a sensible, informed decision.

 

So from what I can discern the terms of the mooring are down to individual mooring contracts and the enforcement comes only from the local authority if they wish to enforce that you are residential but not on a residential mooring. And its up to the individual if they wish to remain on a leisure mooring for an extended period of time and hope that if the authority does call them on it, that they can apply for retrospective residential permission, and hope that they get it.

 

I was hoping to find out if, typically, on a leisure mooring, how often one was expected to go away for and for how long so that I could figure out if this would work for me or not.

[Chris Pink]

It is possible to overthink things and disappear up your own paranoia.

 

I did point this out to you once before, maybe you missed. Do not, whatever you do, take this forum as a reflection of life on the canal. Talk to boaters.

[Homer 123]

Since finding this forum, I've found it a great help and comments have raised a smile in what is a stressful time, selling a house and making a complete life change. The comments on my parrot thread particularly put me at ease when wondering what I should do with him and how it would be living on a boat with a parrot and 2 dogs. However walking along the canal and talking first hand to people has no substitute. They are all friendly and offer helpful advice. I'm really happy with my new lifestyle choice and am looking forward to bringing the boat back home over Easter. The one worrying thing is single handling the locks but yesterday somebody offered to take me out and show me how to do this so even that is not quite so terrifying now! Thank you all for the good advice received

[NB Alnwick]

It is possible to overthink things and disappear up your own paranoia.

 

I did point this out to you once before, maybe you missed. Do not, whatever you do, take this forum as a reflection of life on the canal. Talk to boaters.

 

What Chris says - some of the views expressed on this forum can be extreme but it is a useful resource for general advice if taken with common sense. We have a leisure mooring and live aboard most of the time but we also own property on the land where we pay our council tax - so the local authoritiy's revenue officers will not be chasing us. I believe it is more difficult to use a leisure mooring for permanent residential purposes if it is your only address. Nevertheless there are ways of getting round this if you use the mailing address of a financially independent relative or friend. In another topic, one of the forum's contributors has drawn attentions to the pitfalls of using the address of someone who is reliant on state benefits.

[Arthur Brown]

A residential mooring attracts council tax, currently a leisure mooring does not. So if you have another residence then most councils don't look, but if you want council services -schools etc- then the council may well look into your status and decide to levy council tax. If you are renting a mooring in a marina, their planning permission may well stipulate residential or leisure and your permanent residential use of a leisure mooring could lead to the mooring getting action from the council to enforce planning permission or to pay council tax on residential moorings.

 

Yes in a boat you only rent a mooring. annoy your landlord it may not be renewed, offend your landlord and your agreement may be terminated.

 

If you are a single mum trying to bring up a family you will come to the attention of the council when benefits etc are discussed.

[Looby Loo]

 

If you are a single mum trying to bring up a family you will come to the attention of the council when benefits etc are discussed.

 

I have been a single mum for a few years now and have received no benefits other than Child Benefit(which I would get even if I were still married)and which is administered via HMRC not the council as far as I'm aware. Single mum does not automatically indicate a benefit recipient.

[boathunter]

Well said Loo. Have a greenie.

[Homer 123]

I have been a single mum for a few years now and have received no benefits other than Child Benefit(which I would get even if I were still married)and which is administered via HMRC not the council as far as I'm aware. Single mum does not automatically indicate a benefit recipient.

 

Yes well said but the same goes for single fathers as well. I must be spending too much time on Facebook, but I keep looking for the ' like' button!

[Higgs]

Talk to boaters.

 

 

(Halesowenmum is talking to boaters.)

 

 

Halesowenmum,

 

Satisfy yourself both here and with boaters on the cut. Ask away. Please take what people here say as relevant, too. Otherwise, this forum would be a bit pointless.

[Chris Pink]

I sense you being a little obtuse. I meant, of course, talk to boaters in the area the OP is interested in living as the OP intends to.

 

You are deluding yourself if you think this forum reflects opinion or reality on the canals and its political slant on, for instance, liveaboards with no home mooring is somewhere to the right of Sally Ash.

 

For instance, on the Western Kennet and Avon there is only one active forum member I know of who cruises with no home mooring and I have yet to see him post an opinion on living aboard or CRT policy to liveaboards

 

So how exactly would you gain a realistic opinion of living on that stretch from the forum.

 

There seems to be a tendency amongst some to confuse this forum with real life.

 

None of this is to negate the wonderful technical resource that the forum is.

[Higgs]

I sense you being a little obtuse. I meant, of course, talk to boaters in the area the OP is interested in living as the OP intends to.

 

You are deluding yourself if you think this forum reflects opinion or reality on the canals and its political slant on, for instance, liveaboards with no home mooring is somewhere to the right of Sally Ash.

 

For instance, on the Western Kennet and Avon there is only one active forum member I know of who cruises with no home mooring and I have yet to see him post an opinion on living aboard or CRT policy to liveaboards

 

So how exactly would you gain a realistic opinion of living on that stretch from the forum.

 

There seems to be a tendency amongst some to confuse this forum with real life.

 

None of this is to negate the wonderful technical resource that the forum is.

 

 

I would also suggest that the OP ask people on the spot, but the forum is a good place to form a picture and then be aware of questions that may not have occured at first. A visit here is definitely a good gap filler.

 

Here's another gap filler. I'm a liveaboard on a visitor's mooring. 2 years already, private marina. Asked before I took a mooring. These places exist. May not have similar and local to the OP, but now the OP knows.

 

I'm sure there is plenty here to get the OP started.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Higgs

[Halesowenmum]

I have been a single mum for a few years now and have received no benefits other than Child Benefit(which I would get even if I were still married)and which is administered via HMRC not the council as far as I'm aware. Single mum does not automatically indicate a benefit recipient.

 

You got there before me on that one Looby Loo! I don't claim any benefits from the Council either. I too get the CB which is automatic, and only tax credits which are HMRC.

[Halesowenmum]

I would also suggest that the OP ask people on the spot, but the forum is a good place to form a picture and then be aware of questions that may not have occured at first. A visit here is definitely a good gap filler. Here's another gap filler. I'm a liveaboard on a visitor's mooring. 2 years already, private marina. Asked before I took a mooring. These places exist. May not have similar and local to the OP, but now the OP knows. I'm sure there is plenty here to get the OP started.

 

Thanks for all that info Higgs.

 

At the moment I've had the children with me and therefore since I'm not telling them about my (fairly well formed) plans until such times as I have a bit better idea of what mooring I can get at my preferred location I have to make enquiries when they're not around (it's all very cloak and dagger at the moment!!) and thus lends itself to mooching around on t'internet. So initially I'm taking time to plunder this wonderful resource right here so that when I do go and 'talk to boaters' I've got the best idea I can have, of what to ask. I'm also gradually building up knowledge (limited as it is at this stage) of different setups (electrics, solar and so on) to also inform what I ask when I start going to look at boats. I will do this in a timescale which suits me - not anyone else. I'm planning this coming weekend to do some wandering to marinas and having chats, and possibly looking at a boat and seeing how it grabs me.

 

I think all resources of information are helpful and I really appreciate everyone's comments.

 

And just to clarify - 'single mum' is a very wide-ranging term. I certainly didn't get pregnant on purpose in order to get onto benefits - I ended up single after 16 years of marriage came to an end and have soldiered on since then on me tod. I'm 46 and work full time and would only claim Council-originating benefits like job seeker's allowance if it meant the difference between keeping my home or losing it. I work hard for rubbish money and as a result, get bugger all help from the government despite the fact I can hardly manage to pay my bills lol! I appreciate the spirit of the comments that seek to explain how a leisure moorer might be viewed by the council in relation to if they were claiming benefits - all good to know.

[Lady Muck]

There are no 'typical' rules for a leisure mooring. As I've already said, you would have to check the planning for the individual site - CRT would not provide that info. I have never heard anyone on a CRT mooring say they've got to go away for a specific amount of time - this is where leisure moorings differ from private marinas - the planning is either residential or not and CRT will not be checking up on you. Sure if you claim tax credits or benefits then the council will be aware of you but again in my experience what with the housing shortage what it is they may not kick up a stink - depends on the local authority though. I know people who get housing benefit for leisure moorings - lets face it, much cheaper for the council than a flat - but I also met someone recently who told me that all the liveaboards were evicted from her private mooring because the council objected. Both situations on the river Lee. Only you can decide the risks. I personally wouldn't take a leisure mooring unless I knew I'd be ok if I was evicted.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Lady Muck

[boathunter]

I'm a single father and I never claim anything either, although I certainly could.

[Grace and Favour]

I'm a single father and I never claim anything either, although I certainly could.

 

So - - you're claiming this to be true?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ray]

I do wonder of the OP is slightly confused over terminology and may even be comparing the status to that applicable to caravans.

 

A leisure mooring is one that has no official residential accreditation. Some may not even allow people to stay on the boat over one night, let alone several. The landlord of others may, for one reason or another, turn a blind eye to people who stay on their boat on consecutive days (and/or any number of consecutive days). There is alas always the risk that this latter arrangement may be terminated with little or no notice because it is not official. Remember also that you may not be able to move your boat if the canal is frozen or there are stoppages where you normally cruise when you leave your mooring.

 

I'm not sure whether moving your boat away from your leisure mooring for one or more consecutive nights would get around any residential restrictions on a mooring because it could still be proved that you were living on your boat (assuming that you were) although, technically you are not doing so on your mooring.

 

Boats are checked on moorings, be they towpath or marina, by CRT staff but only for confirmation of whether the boat is licenced or otherwise.

 

Time limits for mooring apply to on-line moorings - like the oft mentioned Visitor Moorings. There is nothing to stop you living full time on your boat and using visitor moorings for the maximum period allowed at that mooring. However, this will probably entail moving the boat every 14 days (or thereabouts) and cruising a reasonable distance before mooring again - please, no discussion here on how far that distance is.

 

These on-line moorings visitor moorings (and the general towpath moorings) are liable to be checked far more often for overstayers and for those boats without licences.

 

I have no wish to dissuade you from buying and living on a boat but if it is to be your sole place to live I would strongly advise against doing so unless you have a bona fide residential mooring or a fall back place to live on land if your "unofficial" residential mooring ceases to be available.

 

Do also consider your chosen means (and place(s)) of living at all times of the year. You cannot move your boat if there's no water in the canal - caused by winter or other stoppages - or if there's flooding or if the canal is frozen. However, life has to go on during these periods. Is your chosen mooring or are your plans for living still practical under these circumstances?

[Chris Pink]

 

Here's another gap filler. I'm a liveaboard on a visitor's mooring. 2 years already, private marina.

 

Two years on a visitor mooring? Gosh. You're the one they're moaning about!

[junior]

Basically you can live (un-officially) on a Leisure mooring if you have some sort of address somewhere else. If you want to give the boat as your address and have post delivered here you will then cross the un-official line and be classed as residential, for which a leisure mooring won't be acceptable.

 

CaRT don't really care if you spend 1 night a year or 365 nights a year sleeping on your boat on a leisure mooring (and that is from the horses mouth although worded differently), but if you can't provide an address elsewhere then you won't keep off the local authority radar for long.

 

What area are you looking to moor in? Am i correct in saying Birmingham? There is a RESIDENTIAL mooring on the Engine Arm on the auction site at the moment with a reserve price similar to your average leisure mooring price. I'm not saying you should bid on it straight away, but i've been keeping an eye on the auction site for about 3 months now and there have been a few Birmingham residential moorings pop up.

 

If you keep your mouth shut, your head down and don't mind 'bending' a few rules, you can get away with a lot. If you are paranoid about getting caught and asked to move on (which i understand with kids in a certain school could be a problem) then the only way you will be able to stop this is to get a residential mooring, be that CaRT or private.

Edited February 17, 2013 by junior