Making bread

[lewisericeric]

With Rye Breads the crumb structure depends to a great extent upon what percentage of Rye flour you've used. ( ? )

 

I've experimented with producing a simple 'poolish' overnight, using just 100gm of Rye and 100gm or very strong white/Canadian flour, and then adding it to a 50/50 Rye/Strong white mix the following morning, - - and it will inevitably make quite a dense crumb.

 

(I've also used 100%Rye/Spelt to make a Pumpernickel - and that'll be a little more dense than a good quality breeze block!)

Yes but by making the starter which ends up going 'sour' you create an acid which reacts when you add your normal rye flour to stop the amylase in the rye from reacting with the water/yeast - meaning that basically the dough won't be sticky like it would be if you just went right ahead with the rye flour and tried to make a dough - something to do with the structures in rye flour. It is the reaction of the rye flour that makes it dense and creating this 'acid' should stop that. It did work to some extent as wasn't as dense as my last rye bread which I made using 4:1 of wheat flour to rye.

 

Anyhow, the dough did come together and was very elasticky this time with the starter so I was impressed. The loaf is nice I just think next time maybe more yeast and maybe some of the oure gluten you can buy to add to dough mixtures.

 

With this recipe I used 300g of rye and 300g of strong white bread flour.

 

I will persevere and succeed!

Edited March 8, 2013 by lewisericeric

[mrsmelly]

Hi peeps

 

As a newbie to all this I can now proudly state I have done 12 different loaves of bread in my machine of different types and all bloooody marvelous !!

 

A question..........I have read in some publications that such as egg can be added to recipes has anyone done this cos I fancy a try and what if anything would the egg replace in the original recipe? Taa

 

Tim

[Grace and Favour]

Hi peeps

 

As a newbie to all this I can now proudly state I have done 12 different loaves of bread in my machine of different types and all bloooody marvelous !!

 

A question..........I have read in some publications that such as egg can be added to recipes has anyone done this cos I fancy a try and what if anything would the egg replace in the original recipe? Taa

 

Tim

 

Aye - - Have you a recipe book with your Panasonic??

 

If you look in that you'll find recipes for what is known as an "enriched" dough - It may be listed as Brioche, or even just 'enriched dough'

 

Normally made with milk instead of water, and with egg (and slightly more sugar probably)

 

 

Have a look through this (Linky)

 

Yes but by making the starter which ends up going 'sour' you create an acid which reacts when you add your normal rye flour to stop the amylase in the rye from reacting with the water/yeast - meaning that basically the dough won't be sticky like it would be if you just went right ahead with the rye flour and tried to make a dough - something to do with the structures in rye flour. It is the reaction of the rye flour that makes it dense and creating this 'acid' should stop that. It did work to some extent as wasn't as dense as my last rye bread which I made using 4:1 of wheat flour to rye.

 

Anyhow, the dough did come together and was very elasticky this time with the starter so I was impressed. The loaf is nice I just think next time maybe more yeast and maybe some of the oure gluten you can buy to add to dough mixtures.

 

With this recipe I used 300g of rye and 300g of strong white bread flour.

 

I will persevere and succeed!

 

Try using a Very strong bread flour (oft made with Canadian Red wheat) - and if you can make a poolish 12/16 hours previous that may help too

[nicknorman]

So, I tried making bread from scratch in the boat using the dough hooks on the hand mixer. Problem: the little handheld mixer really struggled with the thick dough. So more water added.

 

Next problem - rather wet mix results in thick and hard crust.

 

Final problem - although I had 2 goes (1st go I forgot to add the vit C and so it didn't rise very well) even the second go, which did rise OK, tasted of cardboard. Tasteless cardboard that is! And it had a thick and hard crust! However, the ducks seemed to enjoy it!

 

So finally gave up and brought a Panasonic 2500 bread maker today. Its first use on the boat has produced a perfect and tasty loaf, so sorry but I will never be a Paul Hollywood!

Edited July 6, 2013 by nicknorman

[Tuscan]

We set the timer on ours for the early hours so that we had nice fresh bread in the morning, didn't realise it was so noisy !!

[jelunga]

 

With Rye Breads the crumb structure depends to a great extent upon what percentage of Rye flour you've used. ( ? )

 

I've experimented with producing a simple 'poolish' overnight, using just 100gm of Rye and 100gm or very strong white/Canadian flour, and then adding it to a 50/50 Rye/Strong white mix the following morning, - - and it will inevitably make quite a dense crumb.

 

(I've also used 100%Rye/Spelt to make a Pumpernickel - and that'll be a little more dense than a good quality breeze block!)

Hi Hiney.

Are you coming home soon?

[Grace and Favour]

Hi Hiney.

Are you coming home soon?

Isn't it very posh bees that make hiney??

 

 

We'll be back in either August or September - - - - are you missing us already?????

 

 

(and - as this is the bread thread - i have to inform you that we've now got the hang of sour-dough bread too - - yesterday's sour-dough Pugliesi was a treat indeed............ ah! )

[mrsmelly]

Isn't it very posh bees that make hiney??

 

 

We'll be back in either August or September - - - - are you missing us already?????

 

 

(and - as this is the bread thread - i have to inform you that we've now got the hang of sour-dough bread too - - yesterday's sour-dough Pugliesi was a treat indeed............ ah! )

Hi Doods

 

I make fab olive bread and have developed a recipe of my own now wiv rye and spelt which is just awesome. I am a newbie to all this but after tips from young Dave I have now done 68 loaves in my machine ( Yes I am anal I keep count ) and can safely say that buying bread from the shops is now a very rare thing indeed !

 

Tim

[Grace and Favour]

Young Dave - - - - - ? ? ?

 

 

Loving ittttt!

[journeyperson]

My wife was making bread this morning and after the dough had been left to rise for about an hour she realised she'd not put the yeast in. She was going to start again but I said why not add the yeast and I'll knead it again. So we made a little mixture of yeast, flour, sugar and water and plonked that in the middle of the original dough. After kneading and rising it is looking like the mother of all loaves so perhaps all is not lost.

[Laurie St Lyon]

I have heard that too. I kept bees for years and have found that honey which is not taken from the hive too early lasts well but even so it does degrade, often by fermenting. Being a supersaturated solution (until it crystalises) I would have thought that there was insufficient free water for yeasts to multiply. However, the honey is fine to eat even when it has fermented a bit. I am still eating the honey that I have in store from 2007 (We went on a nine month cruise in 2008 and I haven't taken up beekeeping again.

 

N

I also keep bees. The only reason I know of for honey to firment is it is taken from the bees before its capped. (they evaporate the water from the "nector" they make that turns into honey. In the pyramids in Egypt they found honey circa 3000 years old and still good. Use a mix of honey and beeswax as a seal on jam jars. The cappings are good for that. Although I like to eat them on toast.

Gave up making ordinary bread in my machine I just did not like the taste. However, it makes wonderful teabreads, (Sultanas, Mixed fruit, peanut butter-very moist just add jam no need to butter, Bannana, etc) Just that bit of sweet with a cuppa!

[CygnusV]

So far this year we have only bought bread while it was too hot to turn the oven on. I love our home baked bread! I know about vitamin C but I've also been reading about adding a teaspoon of vinegar to a 2lb bread mix. Something about the yeast liking a slightly acidic environment. I'll be baking bread again before the weekend and will try it then myself and report back. By then my new, British made, high sided bread tin will have arrived. Less than £7 with a 15 year guarantee. My Chinese crappy ones are destined to be recycled!

[nicknorman]

Yes, I'm still using the bread machine which I know is a copout. However I found that taking the bread out and putting it in a hot oven, with about 10 mins to run, not only saves leccy but makes for a much crispier crust.

 

Also been using the dough programme to make rolls. First several attempts were a bit of a disaster. Although they rose well during proving, they also spread out and the result resembled cowpats.

 

However I watched a vid on youtube explaining how to shape the rolls, which it transpires is a critical step, and Lo! perfect shaped rolls! (No, not Lo! as in cows lowing before they lose some body weight, but Lo! As in Lo and behold.)

 

So now, crusty rolls but soft and well risen inside. Result!

Edited September 16, 2013 by nicknorman

[Mike Tee]

So far this year we have only bought bread while it was too hot to turn the oven on. I love our home baked bread! I know about vitamin C but I've also been reading about adding a teaspoon of vinegar to a 2lb bread mix. Something about the yeast liking a slightly acidic environment. I'll be baking bread again before the weekend and will try it then myself and report back. By then my new, British made, high sided bread tin will have arrived. Less than £7 with a 15 year guarantee. My Chinese crappy ones are destined to be recycled!

Try lemon juice instead of vinegar.

[Mrs Trackman]

So far this year we have only bought bread while it was too hot to turn the oven on. I love our home baked bread! I know about vitamin C but I've also been reading about adding a teaspoon of vinegar to a 2lb bread mix. Something about the yeast liking a slightly acidic environment. I'll be baking bread again before the weekend and will try it then myself and report back. By then my new, British made, high sided bread tin will have arrived. Less than £7 with a 15 year guarantee. My Chinese crappy ones are destined to be recycled!

Made all my own bread for 40 years, (and still got the scars to prove it from my early attempts). Use a Kenwood chef to mix the dough if on land and love mixing by hand on board, don't find calor stove ideal for cooking, prefer the boatman's stove for the months we have it lit though that's a bit of a fine judgement as no regulator. Love all the flours now available and now use quick mix yeast though try various very slow rise doughs as well. Not got head round sour dough but one of my sons in law makes a fantastic version and will persevere.

Now to the point. I have used the same bread tins for 40 years and they really have seen better days so would be very interested in a link to where I can buy decent high sided loaf tins. Thanks

[CygnusV]

Update on my bready voyage of discovery.

 

The bread tin I ordered has still not arrived and the company (I'm not going to name them yet) have apologised for a cock up by the British manufacturer. Will report back after 10/10 when their next delivery is due.

 

In the absence of the high sided 2lb bread tin I've stuck to making (2X) 1lb loaves, but I've altered what I do. I am still using the breadmaker, but only as a mixer. Not only that, I run the mixing stage twice, with the lid up because of the mixers heater. I've stopped using butter altogether in the mix, tried rapeseed oil but am now using Spanish olive oil (1 tablepoon) plus 1 teaspoon of toasted sesame oil, I may experiment with the oil and reverse the quantities halve the olive and double the sesame. The Spanish oil (Sainsbury) is very good. The toasted sesame oil I bought for making Tiger bread, but started using it 'in the mix' because I love the taste. With 500g flour I use 320ml of water plus an extra 5-10 ml's before the second mix. This gives the gluten some 'proper' exercise. I cook 2 X 1lb tins at the same time at 200 degrees, but add X8 ice cubes (going to try 10 next time) immediately before putting the bread tins in, The resulting bread is brilliant. When the bread has cooled I cut each loaf in half and freeze it. 30 seconds in the microwave and the bread is as good as new.

 

I'm still looking forward to the new high sided bread tin and will open a new thread to review it. I am so looking forward to ditching my crappy Chinese rubbish!

Edited September 30, 2013 by CygnusV

[madcat]

Excellent thread this, Boris makes all our bread at home with his trusty Kenwood major. My sample of today's bake just arrived as I type this, lovely fresh bread roll with seeds in.

Carrs flour is our favourite.

[c c]

 

What's all this need for breadmakers, eh? I have two hands and they do a great job.

 

Thanks, Dave, for the Vitamin C and Ginger tips. I add them and the wholemeal/white loaf now produces a beautiful rise as you can see! Everyone's very impressed.

 

Jo

Jo

Speaking as a chef who was taught to make bread at college many decades ago, can I just say that your loaf looks really great.

 

While I'm on - the some tips I would suggest that have not been mentioned (as far as I can see) so far are:

Using the Tesco own brand of dried yeast has no need for any added sugar in the mix. I never add sugar these days.

Bread flour (for those who are new to this wonderful art) is labelled as "strong" and I use the strongest flour available.

I love to add a good olive oil instead of any butter etc which not only makes the bread taste great but it doesn't go stale or hard so quickly.

Always leave bread to rise far longer than the recipe states.

If you are adding salt to the mix, stir it well into the dry mix before you add the yeast because concentration of salt can kill yeast.

Oh yes and - throw/give away the breadmaking machines merely because you miss all the fun part.

[Mrs Trackman]

Update on my bready voyage of discovery.

 

The bread tin I ordered has still not arrived and the company (I'm not going to name them yet) have apologised for a cock up by the British manufacturer. Will report back after 10/10 when their next delivery is due.

 

In the absence of the high sided 2lb bread tin I've stuck to making (2X) 1lb loaves, but I've altered what I do. I am still using the breadmaker, but only as a mixer. Not only that, I run the mixing stage twice, with the lid up because of the mixers heater. I've stopped using butter altogether in the mix, tried rapeseed oil but am now using Spanish olive oil (1 tablepoon) plus 1 teaspoon of toasted sesame oil, I may experiment with the oil and reverse the quantities halve the olive and double the sesame. The Spanish oil (Sainsbury) is very good. The toasted sesame oil I bought for making Tiger bread, but started using it 'in the mix' because I love the taste. With 500g flour I use 320ml of water plus an extra 5-10 ml's before the second mix. This gives the gluten some 'proper' exercise. I cook 2 X 1lb tins at the same time at 200 degrees, but add X8 ice cubes (going to try 10 next time) immediately before putting the bread tins in, The resulting bread is brilliant. When the bread has cooled I cut each loaf in half and freeze it. 30 seconds in the microwave and the bread is as good as new.

 

I'm still looking forward to the new high sided bread tin and will open a new thread to review it. I am so looking forward to ditching my crappy Chinese rubbish!

Thanks for update, long delivery bit off putting but will be worth it if tins good so look forward to hearing.

There are some great tips still being added. That's the great thing about bread, there are so many variations. I add black strap molasses rather than sugar as I like the flavour and usually add a basic vegetable oil.

The good thing about bread dough is that it's better the more it is worked thus making it perfect for children to enjoy rolling and cutting bread shapes, healthy for them to eat when cooked too.

[Mike Tee]

The good thing about bread dough is that it's better the more it is worked thus making it perfect for children to enjoy rolling and cutting bread shapes, healthy for them to eat when cooked too.

And it really gets their hands clean!!

[George94]

I make sourdough bread using a starter mix given to me by a friend which is apparently eight years old.

 

My technique is to mix 800 gms of wholemeal flour with a good dollop of starter mix (say 3 tblspns) and enough warm water to make a fairly thick dough. I then put it into two small bread tins and let it rise - which might take 12 hours, or maybe 24 or more, depending on temperature. Then into a hot oven (around Gas 7) for 45 minutes.

 

No kneading, and it takes 5 minutes to mix.

 

The end result is fairly dense, but I like it that way.

[bizzard]

I make sourdough bread using a starter mix given to me by a friend which is apparently eight years old.

 

My technique is to mix 800 gms of wholemeal flour with a good dollop of starter mix (say 3 tblspns) and enough warm water to make a fairly thick dough. I then put it into two small bread tins and let it rise - which might take 12 hours, or maybe 24 or more, depending on temperature. Then into a hot oven (around Gas 7) for 45 minutes.

 

No kneading, and it takes 5 minutes to mix.

 

The end result is fairly dense, but I like it that way.

And if you like your bread a little savory Panch Puran or correctly Panch Phoran, Bengali five spice seeds available at Indian deli's. Egg brush the crown of you wholemeal bread and sprinkle the Panch phoran seeds over and bake. The aroma whilst baking is absolutely out of this world. and the delicious flavour of this bread goes superbly with cheese, Marmite, bacon sandwich ect.

[George94]

Missed this first time, Bizz. Shall try.

[pelicanafloat]

Jan used to make all our bread kneading it in a breadmaker. Since moving onto the boat she does it all by hand and has a no kneading recipe.

 

Ingredients

1¾ cups of warm water

1 tsp salt

1 dsp yeast

3¼ cups bread flour (whatever she can find in Sainsburys or Tesco

 

Method

Put flour in bowl

Put yeast on one side and salt on the other

Add warm water and stir

Cover and leave in warm location for 2 hours to allow it to rise

Shape the dough, put in the bread tin or on a tray and cover. Leave to rise for 1 hour

Pre-heat oven to Gas mark 7

Bake bread 30-35 minutes.

 

NOTE: Dough can be sticky so use flour to shape

 

Fascinating! Shall have a go....

 

What's all this need for breadmakers, eh? I have two hands and they do a great job. Thanks, Dave, for the Vitamin C and Ginger tips. I add them and the wholemeal/white loaf now produces a beautiful rise as you can see! Everyone's very impressed.Jo

 

Lovely photo .... Ingredients and technique would help :-)

 

I have been making all our bread (at home) by hand since the Kenwood Chef gave up the ghost in about 2005. Before that either SWMBO or I had made the bread since 1977 using the Kenwood for kneading.

 

I weigh the flour and measure the water approximately and use a splash of sunflower oil. Salt is added at the rate of 1 tsp/3lbs flour and sugar added a bit carelessly. I sometimes have to add a bit of water at the first kneading if I can't incorporate all the flour. I don't think that accurate measurement is important in my case. What I do find important is to handle the proven loaves very gently or you knock them back and they turn out heavy. Oh, yes, and I knead once, know back and knead again and then knock back, shape and put in the loaf tins. A good long kneading each time (about 50 - 70 squish and stretches)

 

N

Enthusiasm mounting!

 

Made all my own bread for 40 years, (and still got the scars to prove it from my early attempts). Use a Kenwood chef to mix the dough if on land and love mixing by hand on board, don't find calor stove ideal for cooking, prefer the boatman's stove for the months we have it lit though that's a bit of a fine judgement as no regulator. Love all the flours now available and now use quick mix yeast though try various very slow rise doughs as well. Not got head round sour dough but one of my sons in law makes a fantastic version and will persevere.

Now to the point. I have used the same bread tins for 40 years and they really have seen better days so would be very interested in a link to where I can buy decent high sided loaf tins. Thanks

 

Wife getting alarmed, I have added bread tin to Christmas list

 

Jo

Speaking as a chef who was taught to make bread at college many decades ago, can I just say that your loaf looks really great.

 

While I'm on - the some tips I would suggest that have not been mentioned (as far as I can see) so far are:

Using the Tesco own brand of dried yeast has no need for any added sugar in the mix. I never add sugar these days.

Bread flour (for those who are new to this wonderful art) is labelled as "strong" and I use the strongest flour available.

I love to add a good olive oil instead of any butter etc which not only makes the bread taste great but it doesn't go stale or hard so quickly.

Always leave bread to rise far longer than the recipe states.

If you are adding salt to the mix, stir it well into the dry mix before you add the yeast because concentration of salt can kill yeast.

Oh yes and - throw/give away the breadmaking machines merely because you miss all the fun part.

We have a bread machine. The stuff that comes out of it has a texture that I really do not like, so I'm hoping that the added pleasure of making by hand will overcome any lack of texture .... Anyway, I want to experiment!

 

What's the point of living the dream if I can't be part of it! Exits left dreaming of all things crusty, and what a nice useful thread. If I ever get to make a decent loaf I shall of course senbd in a picture!

[Grace and Favour]

As a further development of our 'bread adventures' - I've spent the last six months (or so) developing my sourdough skills.

 

WOW!

 

Isn't sourdough bread just a wonderful experience!

 

We now have at least one sourdough loaf every week, and have created a repertoire of a goodly number of breads - including white, wholemeal with honey, seeded, herby, olive, rosemary and garlic, rye - and they're all delicious!

 

And - toasted sourdough is so delightful - it makes breakfast a meal I positively look forward to!

 

 

(and we currently have three different 'starters' on the go - our own, a rye, and an American strain called Oregon 1874)

 

It's all good fun!!