CCer' meetings/ problems

[LoneWolf]

OK... let's give this a bit of reality! I have been living on the water for more than a decade and over the last year due to the austerity push have found myself bouncing around the country.

 

I now find myself on a stretch where moorings are scarce but I have a 60 mile cruising range.

 

I have overstayed on 3 moorings so far, none have been anywhere near capacity nor has it been a possibility.

 

I will be compelled to move significant distances, over 3 or 4 canals to keep the bog empty, yet stay within a commutable distance of work.

 

What's wrong with that other than an aversion to pointless kowtowwing to arbitrary mooring restrictions that serve no purpose?

 

absolutely nothing except maybe you should consider getting a cassette bog

[carlt]

I will be compelled to move significant distances.

 

False Economy!

 

You'll actually find that the smaller your movements, the slower your toilet fills up.

[MtB]

I have overstayed on 3 moorings so far, none have been anywhere near capacity nor has it been a possibility.

 

Might this not be BECAUSE of the mooring limits? They are there to prevent VMs becoming permanently populated by CMers. Not everyone ignores the rules....

 

 

MtB

[cotswoldsman]

Might this not be BECAUSE of the mooring limits? They are there to prevent VMs becoming permanently populated by CMers. Not everyone ignores the rules....

 

 

MtB

 

And the evidence that they are populated by CMers is?

[matty40s]

And the evidence that they are populated by CMers is?

 

Nothing according to this weeks cruise from Audlem to Coventry. Spaces everywhere.

[cotswoldsman]

Nothing according to this weeks cruise from Audlem to Coventry. Spaces everywhere.

 

Visitor moorings all empty in Burscough and I put that down that most boats are in Marinas

[alan_fincher]

Visitor moorings all empty in Burscough and I put that down that most boats are in Marinas

No. Sensible boaters "fly" South to sunnier climates, so they don't need to suffer Northern winters.

[Joshua]

As a CCer, the 24/48 Hr moorings are a real fag in the winter when ‘life’ takes a bit longer and is a bit more difficult to organise.

 

I often have to sail right on past perfectly placed moorings near the town where I need to spend 4 or 5 days obtaining goods and services, moorings which are unoccupied because all the weekend and holiday boaters have stopped boating for the winter, moorings that will remain practically unused for the winter and even worse and more frustrating, in some places, moorings that suddenly become equally empty CaRT ‘permit holder only winter moorings’ and which then, can’t be used at all!

 

If the convenient 24/48hr moorings were standard 14 days, I wouldn’t think, ‘oh great I can permanently live on these’, I would simply stay for the 4 or 5 days I need and then move on.

 

 

[matty40s]

I have been digging for the legislation that would back up MikeB's assertion , but have got to Australia and still not found them.

The perception of 'seasonal cruisers' is probably that there are multitudes of CM ers hogging visitor moorings, however, the (my observed) facts show that the majority of boats. abandoned for weeks on end on VM are boats WITH moorings.

[carlt]

No. Sensible boaters "fly" South.

 

Typo!

 

No sensible boaters "fly" South.

 

That's better!

[DeanS]

I don't see how Cart can ask everyone for their opinion.

 

If there was a serious question they needed input on regarding future policy which would affect thousands of their licence holders, I would expect them to send a letter to the address they sent the licence discs to, with some info about the issue, and a link to an online poll site where we can offer some immediate feedback.

Can it be more simple in 2012 for an organisation to interact with it's clientbase ?

[oarfish]

As a CCer, the 24/48 Hr moorings are a real fag in the winter when ‘life’ takes a bit longer and is a bit more difficult to organise.

 

Some visitor mooring on the South Oxford have different hours 'out of season'. Makes sense, not seen that on northern canals. Then again, its also very busy and full of 5 minute no dawdling or return within 6 years visitor moorings.

[MtB]

And the evidence that they are populated by CMers is?

 

There isn't any, because they aren't. You appear to have misunderstood my assertion.

 

I'll try again. I was asserting that the reason VMs are NOT permanently populated by CMers is BECAUSE of the time limit rules. Most people observe the time limits meaning the VMs are mostly clear as Smelly describes.

 

But take the time limit rules away and everyone would give up their marina moorings and just moor permanently out on the cut, including on VMs. A few boaters do this anyway which annoys those of us who DO observe the rules.

 

I also conclude the time limit rules are not so much to keep the VMs clear for the benefit of visitors but to force boaters to rent home moorings from CRT and/or in marinas, in order to massively boost the revenue of CRT and the marinas.

 

 

MtB

 

(Edited to fiddle with the layout)

Edited December 5, 2012 by Mike the Boilerman

[sueb]

If there was a serious question they needed input on regarding future policy which would affect thousands of their licence holders, I would expect them to send a letter to the address they sent the licence discs to, with some info about the issue, and a link to an online poll site where we can offer some immediate feedback.

Can it be more simple in 2012 for an organisation to interact with it's clientbase ?

Does any other organisation do this?

[carlt]

Does any other organisation do this?

Don't you get those annoying pop-ups on so many websites asking for your opinion about the service you received?

 

"Feedback", Customer reviews, satisfaction surveys are used by loads of organisations from Amazon to your local authority.

[Chris Pink]

 

I'll try again. I was asserting that the reason VMs are NOT permanently populated by CMers is BECAUSE of the time limit rules. Most people observe the time limits meaning the VMs are mostly clear as Smelly describes.

 

 

 

In your continuous attempts to belittle a group you don't like, you are ignoring basic logic.

 

if your so-called "CMers" are such a problem because they ignore the rules, how come they mysteriously obey the visitor mooring rules?

[Joshua]

There isn't any, because they aren't. You appear to have misunderstood my assertion.

 

I'll try again. I was asserting that the reason VMs are NOT permanently populated by CMers is BECAUSE of the time limit rules. Most people observe the time limits meaning the VMs are mostly clear as Smelly describes.

 

But take the time limit rules away and everyone would give up their marina moorings and just moor permanently out on the cut, including on VMs. A few boaters do this anyway which annoys those of us who DO observe the rules.

 

I also conclude the time limit rules are not so much to keep the VMs clear for the benefit of visitors but to force boaters to rent home moorings from CRT and/or in marinas, in order to massively boost the revenue of CRT and the marinas.

 

 

MtB

 

(Edited to fiddle with the layout)

 

I still don’t understand this Mike.

 

Firstly, why does making a 14 day mooring 24hrs only, make it less likely that someone will permanently moor on it?

 

Secondly, you normally seem quite sensible, so I am surprised that you try to defend this view by making another odd statement about the behaviour of boaters in marinas.

 

I happen to be in a marina at the moment waiting for some work to be completed on my boat.

 

The people moored here have:

 

Nice tarmacked access roads.

 

Tarmacked parking next to their boat.

 

Purpose made pontoons that make access to their boat simple, safe, clean and convenient.

 

Showers on site.

 

Toilets on site.

 

Diesel whenever they want it by moving their boat a couple of hundred yards.

 

Pump out as above.

 

Potty emptying shed handy

 

Water whenever they want it.

 

Shoreline electrics.

 

Security fencing

 

A shop.

 

A café.

 

Permanent friendly neighbours.

 

and they need NEVER move their boat if they don’t want to and many don’t.

 

 

Why on earth would they give all that up just because the local town visitor mooring changes from 48hrs to 14 days?

 

 

[trackman]

My view is that both Cotswoldman & Mike the Boilerman have elements of truth in what they say. As MB says, I'm sure CaRT does have some motive to drive boaters towards marinas. They earn lots of money from marinas & boats moored there.

 

Equally, I feel that there's a view around that somehow it makes it easier to enforce mooring time restrictions if they are shorter. That's a nonsense of course. You can only really prove overstaying at a 24 hour site and enforce the rules by checking daily, but weekly checks will just about do it for 7 or 14 day moorings as I see it.

 

The real problem with overstaying has been caused by ineffective enforcement in the past. It wouldn't matter what the time limit was if it was properly enforced.

 

The lack of 7 & 14 day moorings in places where there are shops, buses, trains etc is a real problem to "law abiding" boaters and needs to be changed. It does nothing to deter overstaying. It just makes it more likely that people like us, who try to obey the rules, will occasionally have to overstay on a 24 hour site in order to get a train home in an emergency or such, when we need to be away more than a day.

 

It is a problem to us as live aboard boaters, and has been so just much when we have had a mooring as when we have been CCing. Either way we need to access facilities, shops, transport etc and need places where we can stay near them for varying periods of time, sometimes in excess of 48 hrs.

 

We recently arrived in Birmingham to find that there was only one boat on the many 48 hr moorings on the main line but 5 on the half dozen14 day ones. We happened to need to be here more than 2 days and were lucky to get the last spot where we could legitimately do so. Why are there so few 14 day moorings here in winter? The proportion is fine for the summer, I'm sure, but unnecessarily restrictive at this time of year.

 

Birmingham is just an example, and probably not the worst one.

 

I'd like to see far more 7 or 14 day moorings in useful places, but see the time limits properly enforced.

 

As for winter moorings, mentioned elsewhere here recently, don't even start me on the ridiculousness of these!

[churchward]

As a CCer, the 24/48 Hr moorings are a real fag in the winter when ‘life’ takes a bit longer and is a bit more difficult to organise.

 

I often have to sail right on past perfectly placed moorings near the town where I need to spend 4 or 5 days obtaining goods and services, moorings which are unoccupied because all the weekend and holiday boaters have stopped boating for the winter, moorings that will remain practically unused for the winter and even worse and more frustrating, in some places, moorings that suddenly become equally empty CaRT ‘permit holder only winter moorings’ and which then, can’t be used at all!

 

If the convenient 24/48hr moorings were standard 14 days, I wouldn't think, ‘oh great I can permanently live on these’, I would simply stay for the 4 or 5 days I need and then move on.

The problem with absolute statements is that they are rarely true. I am not a CC'er or live aboard but although that means I may come under your category of Weekend and holiday boater I do use the boat throughout the year so not ALL of us have stopped. I shall ice willing be out and about to enjoy the new year just after Christmas.

 

However, I take your point over empty or little used Visitor Moorings in the late autumn and winter months. I have seen signage around that sometimes have a different period of stay depending on the time of year. Perhaps there should be more of these. So depending on the local demand perhaps have Nov - March and April to Oct periods. In the spring summer months they may be 24 or 48 hour moorings at high demand sites and in the autumn winter period have them as 7 or 14 day moorings when the demand is much less.

[Mike Tee]

False Economy!

 

You'll actually find that the smaller your movements, the slower your toilet fills up.

Probably the least contentious comment in this entire thread. Accurate as well.

[Sir Nibble]

I still don’t understand this Mike.

 

Firstly, why does making a 14 day mooring 24hrs only, make it less likely that someone will permanently moor on it?

 

Secondly, you normally seem quite sensible, so I am surprised that you try to defend this view by making another odd statement about the behaviour of boaters in marinas.

 

I happen to be in a marina at the moment waiting for some work to be completed on my boat.

 

The people moored here have:

 

Nice tarmacked access roads.

 

 

Tarmacked parking next to their boat.

 

Purpose made pontoons that make access to their boat simple, safe, clean and convenient.

 

Showers on site.

 

Toilets on site.

 

Diesel whenever they want it by moving their boat a couple of hundred yards.

 

Pump out as above.

 

Potty emptying shed handy

 

Water whenever they want it.

 

Shoreline electrics.

 

Security fencing

 

A shop.

 

A café.

 

Permanent friendly neighbours.

 

and they need NEVER move their boat if they don’t want to and many don’t.

 

 

Why on earth would they give all that up just because the local town visitor mooring changes from 48hrs to 14 days?

Whilst I agree with the point you are making, how about this.

In the marina where I moor I get,

 

Somewhere to put the boat and meet my licence conditions.

 

A pontoon, usually listing always dangerously slippery.

 

A tap, usually off.

 

An unsecure car park.

 

I can think of around 2000 reasons to "give all that up" all with pound signs in front.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Sir Nibble

[cotswoldsman]

In your continuous attempts to belittle a group you don't like, you are ignoring basic logic.

 

if your so-called "CMers" are such a problem because they ignore the rules, how come they mysteriously obey the visitor mooring rules?

 

Not only do they obey the VM rules but for some reason do not even use them in the winter. Amazing really at a time when they could over stay on VM as they are empty they avoid them all together. I guess they just use them in the Summer months to annoy boats coming out of Marinas.