Life Jackets

[George94]

And virtually all the lock keepers on the EA controlled part of the river wear inflatable life-jackets, don't they ?

 

If its OK for them, why is it not OK for me ?

 

 

 

I find no difficulties whatsoever wearing a modern inflatable jacket on rivers.

 

Why is it dangerous to wear it "down below", then ?

 

(I think I can guess a very small possibility where it might be, but go on, anyway.......)

 

 

A buoyancy aid is far less guaranteed to keep you the right way up, with head fully out of water.

 

You can be the strongest swimmer in the world, but if you are knocked unconscious going in, being a swimmer isn't going to help you.

 

Do you have any actual evidence of narrow boat crew on (say) the Thames who are now dead who would not be, had they not been wearing a life-jacket when crewing the boat, please ? (Not any other kind of boat, in another place - deaths of crew of a tiller-steered canal boat being operated on a big river, due to life-jacket wearing.....)

 

Sorry, been away for a while.

 

I have absolutely no information on NB crew who have died in the Thames, whether or not they had any sort of life-saving equipment. I don't however believe the statement by another poster that 50% of people who hit the water are already unconscious.

 

I must admit that I am often alone on my boat, and would have no means of summoning assistance if I fell over-board. Also, the Thames is surprisingly empty

above Wandsworth Bridge, and I frequently see no other boats for long periods when I am on the river.

 

So if I am unconscious when I fall in, I am a goner. If I am not, I will get to the bank more quickly if not impeded by life-saving apparatus.

 

I would also be unlikely to be able to rescue somebody in the water unless I had at least two capable people with me. I suspect few NB owners would be able to rescue a man overboard on the Thames.

[blackrose]

I think an inflatable life-jacket is useful for divers but is overkill on a boat. None of the professional waterway people use them on the Thames. They just have small buoyancy aids, and that is what the PLA suggests boaters should wear.

 

They do where I work.

 

But that's not what they do themselves.

 

Obviously, 100 miles away in Lincoln you know all about it, but if you were ever to come to the Thames you would find that PLA staff, and other watermen, tend to use small buoyancy aids.

 

 

I've seen PLA staff wearing lifejackets.

[nebulae]

Its funny how a river seems much wider when you are in the water rather than on it.I have found myself in the water on a number of ocassions,once at sea wearing a life jacket which failed.I consider myself lucky to have survived.At least a self inflating lifejacket will keep a dead body afloat.Saves the emergency services a lot of trouble and expence.The only valid excuse may be when going below in a narrow boat,when emergency exiting may be impaired.I suggest if the vessel is foundering or in distress,it would be unwise to go below.It may be a good idea to practice swimming with your lifejacket on if you lack confidence.The main use of a boyancy aid is for sports such as canoeing,and sailing(when using a wet or dry suit)When dinghy sailing,I always use a lifejacket,my personal preference.Safety equipment is always cheap if it saves your life.

[Barry]

 

So if I am unconscious when I fall in, I am a goner. If I am not, I will get to the bank more quickly if not impeded by life-saving apparatus.

 

 

The over confident complacence of ignorance I am afraid

 

You are assuming that if you go into the water you are going to retain all your mental and physical capabilities. Even in the summer this is difficult. It is more likely that your clothing will quickly become waterlogged and you will be too shocked and/or weak to do anything about it. In a strong cold current you are more likely to drown than anything else.

[NMEA]

From a seagoing boater who wears a lifejacket at all times when aboard even on rivers and moving about in marinas, auto inflate lifejackets are not cumbersome at all, we have two types, 150n for inshore and river and 275n with full sprayhood and a PLB for offshore use. The OP has done right, as we do every year in manually iflating the life jacket, this is best done with a pump rather than blowing it by mouth as that leaves more moisture inside which can lead to rotting of some lower end products, leave at laest overnight. The gas canister should be weighed and compared against the stamped weight on the cannister. Personally I change the canister and activator at two years regardeless as they are quite cheap and what price safety any way Auto life jackets do two things, inflate if you are not able to and turn you over if you are face down. Bouyancy aids are a different thing entirely and will only assist if you are concious and a decent swimmer and not wearing heavy clothing, thats why they are mostly used for the likes of water skiers and dinghy racers who are always wet. I think the poster who says that staff wear bouyancy aids is mistaken, health and safety regs dictate what should be worn by staff of organisations like the PLA et all and it aint bouyancy aids, in fact even the Newtons are specified. I guess some could mistake a solid type life jacket for a bouyancy aid which may have lead to the confusion here, in my opinion they are the best of all as far as safety goes as they can't be punctured or fail to inflate, just impossible to work in though. Some PLA staff may APPEAR not to be wearing a life jacket at all because they may be built into a jacket auto inflate type.

Guy to other guy on a canal boat wearing a life jacket "you don't really need to use that on a canal do you" guy with life jacket "I hope not"

Edited November 25, 2012 by NMEA

[ditchcrawler]

Watching Griff Rhys Jones on the telly the other night in 3 men go to Scotland, in it they take a greenie while standing on the back of a boat, 2 of the 3 lifejackets inflated.

[luctor et emergo]

I think George may be mixing up his bouyancy aids and auto-inflate lifejackets...

Edited November 25, 2012 by luctor et emergo

[NMEA]

Watching Griff Rhys Jones on the telly the other night in 3 men go to Scotland, in it they take a greenie while standing on the back of a boat, 2 of the 3 lifejackets inflated.

 

Skinflind Griff, using cheap non hammar auto inflate capsules.

[roggie]

Thanks for all the info. I found this place in Croydon which is pretty handy for us. About £8 per lifejacket and the price for replacement cylinders doesn't look too bad. All I have to do now is to charge people for wearing them if we every go on tidal rivers where I think they are really needed. Apart from if I ever solo cruise when it does seem sensible to wear a automatic one around locks. This from someone who doesn't normally wear a cycle helmet as some risks are acceptable....

[George94]

The over confident complacence of ignorance I am afraid

 

You are assuming that if you go into the water you are going to retain all your mental and physical capabilities. Even in the summer this is difficult. It is more likely that your clothing will quickly become waterlogged and you will be too shocked and/or weak to do anything about it. In a strong cold current you are more likely to drown than anything else.

 

I have been overboard in the Thames in February, in the sea off the Outer Hebrides (North Uist) in October, and in the sea in Northern France (Grandcamps) at Easter. I do know what it is like to be in cold water.

 

France was the coldest by the way. North Uist benefits from the Gulf Stream. And in case you think I am especially good at falling overboard, the latter two instances were voluntary.

 

Sitting doing nothing in a life-jacket in cold water waiting to be rescued is the best way to die of hypothermia. Swimming strongly for the shore is the best way to get back on land quickly. Obviously this only works when you are close to the shore anyway.

 

When I signed onto a square-rigger to cross the Atlantic, the skipper said: "I've seen three men fall off a boat, and none picked up. Don't fall off.".

 

I am not safety-averse. When on a sailing boat at night, I rig a line down the centre of the boat for people to click their harnesses onto. It saved my life when we suffered a knock-down. A flotation device of any sort would not have done so.

 

I prefer to invest in things to stop you falling off, and failing that, to maximise your chances of swimming to safety.

 

I have little faith in being rescued. The people at Limehouse were lucky, as they were in a very populated part of the river.

Edited November 25, 2012 by George94

[DandV]

I have been overboard in the Thames in February, in the sea off the Outer Hebrides (North Uist) in October, and in the sea in Northern France (Grandcamps) at Easter. I do know what it is like to be in cold water.

 

France was the coldest by the way. North Uist benefits from the Gulf Stream. And in case you think I am especially good at falling overboard, the latter two instances were voluntary.

 

Sitting doing nothing in a life-jacket in cold water waiting to be rescued is the best way to die of hypothermia. Swimming strongly for the shore is the best way to get back on land quickly. Obviously this only works when you are close to the shore anyway.

 

When I signed onto a square-rigger to cross the Atlantic, the skipper said: "I've seen three men fall off a boat, and none picked up. Don't fall off.".

 

I am not safety-averse. When on a sailing boat at night, I rig a line down the centre of the boat for people to click their harnesses onto. It saved my life when we suffered a knock-down. A flotation device of any sort would not have done so.

 

I prefer to invest in things to stop you falling off, and failing that, to maximise your chances of swimming to safety.

 

I have little faith in being rescued. The people at Limehouse were lucky, as they were in a very populated part of the river.

 

Disagree.

Having been a dinghy sailor on fast unstable boats, and kayaker in waves and in fast flowing rivers, suddenly finding yourself afloat without a boat is much less stressful wearing a lifejacket. Thhe huge thing immediately off you mind, is that you you don't have to anything to remain afloat, hardly relax, but you can concentrate on resolving your unintended situation, get the boat upright, baled and reboard, get ashore, or concentrate on getting attention to get rescued, but comforting, you will stay afloat. Believe me that is a very significant reduction in panic provocation. These new fangled auto self inflating lifejackets are up there with seat belts and safety helmets as life and injury savers.

 

Don

[bizzard]

In case I was unable to right my sailing dinghies after a capsize I always painted HELP!!! in massive letters on my bottom.

[bizzard]

Many years ago, more than I care to remember, I taught myself how to sail on a big lake in Mayesbrook park near Dagenham. It was for the area a quite beautiful location with trees and shrubs and things. Also to my delight the Fenchurch st to Southend railway line passed close by the lake and I could see the steam engines numbers, they were all 2-6-4T engines, so consequently I never forgot to take my Ian Allen train spotters book and pencil with me to that park.

Erm i've forgotten what i was on about to now!.

Oh yes''lifejackets''. We would turn up there on sunny school holidays to have a sail, pay our 1/6d for an hour and off we'd go, no lifejackets, not a sign of em to be seen anywhere, we didn't even know such things existed, we were not asked if we could swim, nothing we just paid our 1/6d and off we went for a glorious sail.

All parks were like this,whether sailing dinghies, motor boats or rowing boats, never a sign of lifejackets, on anybody or in the boat houses, usually only a couple of old lifebuoys hanging on nails. They were just not thought about by anybody as if they didn't exist at all.

But we all survived to tell the tale.

Edited November 26, 2012 by bizzard

[FadeToScarlet]

I have been overboard in the Thames in February, in the sea off the Outer Hebrides (North Uist) in October, and in the sea in Northern France (Grandcamps) at Easter. I do know what it is like to be in cold water.

 

France was the coldest by the way. North Uist benefits from the Gulf Stream. And in case you think I am especially good at falling overboard, the latter two instances were voluntary.

 

Sitting doing nothing in a life-jacket in cold water waiting to be rescued is the best way to die of hypothermia. Swimming strongly for the shore is the best way to get back on land quickly. Obviously this only works when you are close to the shore anyway.

 

When I signed onto a square-rigger to cross the Atlantic, the skipper said: "I've seen three men fall off a boat, and none picked up. Don't fall off.".

 

I am not safety-averse. When on a sailing boat at night, I rig a line down the centre of the boat for people to click their harnesses onto. It saved my life when we suffered a knock-down. A flotation device of any sort would not have done so.

 

I prefer to invest in things to stop you falling off, and failing that, to maximise your chances of swimming to safety.

 

I have little faith in being rescued. The people at Limehouse were lucky, as they were in a very populated part of the river.

 

Why not wear an auto life jacket.

 

Then, if you fall in unconscious you'll have a chance of survival.

 

If you fall in conscious and wish to swim all you have to do is unbuckle it. You could even tow it on a cord so you can hold it or put it on if you get too tired or can't make it or need to give a rescuer something to hold to pull you out.

[mrsmelly]

I have been overboard in the Thames in February, in the sea off the Outer Hebrides (North Uist) in October, and in the sea in Northern France (Grandcamps) at Easter. I do know what it is like to be in cold water.

 

France was the coldest by the way. North Uist benefits from the Gulf Stream. And in case you think I am especially good at falling overboard, the latter two instances were voluntary.

 

Sitting doing nothing in a life-jacket in cold water waiting to be rescued is the best way to die of hypothermia. Swimming strongly for the shore is the best way to get back on land quickly. Obviously this only works when you are close to the shore anyway.

 

When I signed onto a square-rigger to cross the Atlantic, the skipper said: "I've seen three men fall off a boat, and none picked up. Don't fall off.".

 

I am not safety-averse. When on a sailing boat at night, I rig a line down the centre of the boat for people to click their harnesses onto. It saved my life when we suffered a knock-down. A flotation device of any sort would not have done so.

 

I prefer to invest in things to stop you falling off, and failing that, to maximise your chances of swimming to safety.

 

I have little faith in being rescued. The people at Limehouse were lucky, as they were in a very populated part of the river.

 

Hi

 

Having read some of these posts I oonsider myself lucky in the fact that my training was done by the best people in the world, that being the Royal Navy. Back in the early seventies when things were far less namby pamby than they are today we were even then made to wear lifejackets on the upper deck in inclement weather. We also shackled ourselves along rails and points along the upper deck as we moved about. We were trained from day one that one hand was for the Queen and the other for ourselves. In the past nearly 40 years I have NEVER fallen in the sea,river or canal having retained that knowledge and training. The term used for boaters who have not yet fallen in as not being a proper boater until you have is simply stupid. Not wearing a lifejacket when boating is also stupid. I confess that I am stupid on canals as I do not wear a lifejacket but I do always wear one on rivers and at sea, perhaps I believe I can breath under water when its canal water

 

Tim

[roggie]

What did I start.... its a bit like posting something about cycle helmets on a cycling forum (I have and have the bruises to show). I brought the life jackets in case we go on the tidal Thames - which I want to one day but hopefully with SPCC in a flotilla. I don't fancy my chances - or more likely my crews chances should something go wrong. As I now have 4 gas inflated jackets I might as well make sure they will work if the need ever came to it. Hence the question about servicing.

Thanks everyone for your advice/tales/recommendations. Interesting read....

[bizzard]

What did I start.... its a bit like posting something about cycle helmets on a cycling forum (I have and have the bruises to show). I brought the life jackets in case we go on the tidal Thames - which I want to one day but hopefully with SPCC in a flotilla. I don't fancy my chances - or more likely my crews chances should something go wrong. As I now have 4 gas inflated jackets I might as well make sure they will work if the need ever came to it. Hence the question about servicing.

Thanks everyone for your advice/tales/recommendations. Interesting read....

You welcome roggie

[Pentargon]

From a seagoing boater who wears a lifejacket at all times when aboard even on rivers and moving about in marinas, auto inflate lifejackets are not cumbersome at all, we have two types, 150n for inshore and river and 275n with full sprayhood and a PLB for offshore use. The OP has done right, as we do every year in manually iflating the life jacket, this is best done with a pump rather than blowing it by mouth as that leaves more moisture inside which can lead to rotting of some lower end products, leave at laest overnight. The gas canister should be weighed and compared against the stamped weight on the cannister. Personally I change the canister and activator at two years regardeless as they are quite cheap and what price safety any way Auto life jackets do two things, inflate if you are not able to and turn you over if you are face down. Bouyancy aids are a different thing entirely and will only assist if you are concious and a decent swimmer and not wearing heavy clothing, thats why they are mostly used for the likes of water skiers and dinghy racers who are always wet. I think the poster who says that staff wear bouyancy aids is mistaken, health and safety regs dictate what should be worn by staff of organisations like the PLA et all and it aint bouyancy aids, in fact even the Newtons are specified. I guess some could mistake a solid type life jacket for a bouyancy aid which may have lead to the confusion here, in my opinion they are the best of all as far as safety goes as they can't be punctured or fail to inflate, just impossible to work in though. Some PLA staff may APPEAR not to be wearing a life jacket at all because they may be built into a jacket auto inflate type.

Guy to other guy on a canal boat wearing a life jacket "you don't really need to use that on a canal do you" guy with life jacket "I hope not"

Absolutely astounded I had to read down to the 30th post to see a sensible comment. WTF are the previous 28 talking about? I was in MVS London Unit and worked with PLA, River Police, RNLI and other professionals on 'joint ventures'. All of us used life jackets, but were allowed to decide if they should be self-inflating or pullcord. At sea it is true that a high number of overboards are knocked out by booms or other gear as they go in. If you are making way and someone goes in you have a better chance of seeing them in a brightly coloured lifejacket. You can also grab them with a boat hook and if they are also wearing a safety harness you can even winch them back on board. Some of you smart-arses above should see what happens to someone who falls into the Thames in February on an ebbing tide in the lower pool. They will be unconscious from the cold in less than five minutes and it may take you ten to retrieve them. Cop onto yourselves weigh the bottles every year. inflate Test inflate with an airhose once a year in very dry weather to cut down moisture ingress. And inflate it while you are wearing it

[mrsmelly]

Absolutely astounded I had to read down to the 30th post to see a sensible comment. WTF are the previous 28 talking about? I was in MVS London Unit and worked with PLA, River Police, RNLI and other professionals on 'joint ventures'. All of us used life jackets, but were allowed to decide if they should be self-inflating or pullcord. At sea it is true that a high number of overboards are knocked out by booms or other gear as they go in. If you are making way and someone goes in you have a better chance of seeing them in a brightly coloured lifejacket. You can also grab them with a boat hook and if they are also wearing a safety harness you can even winch them back on board. Some of you smart-arses above should see what happens to someone who falls into the Thames in February on an ebbing tide in the lower pool. They will be unconscious from the cold in less than five minutes and it may take you ten to retrieve them. Cop onto yourselves weigh the bottles every year. inflate Test inflate with an airhose once a year in very dry weather to cut down moisture ingress. And inflate it while you are wearing it

 

Hi

 

In fairness, the majority of forum members are realy narrowboaters and have rarely, if ever seen anything but narrow canals at 3 feet deep. In the mid seventies I spent several winter months in the arctic circle above Iceland during the cod war on a warship. Its simply impossible for me to be able to convey to people who have not been to sea in such an area during a hurricane what it was like, simply mind blowing. Had any of us fallen in then when the air temperature was usualy below minus 30 and often more we would have been dead in seconds not minutes. The guys in the little trawlers out of Grimsby and Hull are quite simply the toughest guys imaginable and from those days onwards I have had nothing but the utmost respect for their courage and ability in the face of adversity. Blimey I digress..... back to the piddly little floods

 

Tim

[roggie]

And I blew mine up orally... best dry them out PDQ. Yup I watched a SPCC cold water video and realised that if you fall in during colder months you don't have long before the body start shutting down. So thank to Mr Phasey of SPCC I purchased said life jackets in readiness. Nuff said on subject methinks.

[George94]

Disagree.

Having been a dinghy sailor on fast unstable boats, and kayaker in waves and in fast flowing rivers, suddenly finding yourself afloat without a boat is much less stressful wearing a lifejacket. Thhe huge thing immediately off you mind, is that you you don't have to anything to remain afloat, hardly relax, but you can concentrate on resolving your unintended situation, get the boat upright, baled and reboard, get ashore, or concentrate on getting attention to get rescued, but comforting, you will stay afloat. Believe me that is a very significant reduction in panic provocation. These new fangled auto self inflating lifejackets are up there with seat belts and safety helmets as life and injury savers.

 

Don

 

We were not discussing dinghies.

 

The last time I sailed a dinghy in Loch Awe, the water was so cold that I doubt if I would have survived unless I had been wearing a wet-suit. A flotation device would not have helped greatly.

[John V]

As regards to being still in a lifejacket as opposed to swimming being better for hypothermia, this is incorrect your core temperature drops faster if you are moving when in cold water.

 

Compared to your life they are cheap and so is having them properly maintained. The majority of professional boatmen/tug crew that I know, wear them almost all the time and ALWAYS when towing.

[mrsmelly]

As regards to being still in a lifejacket as opposed to swimming being better for hypothermia, this is incorrect your core temperature drops faster if you are moving when in cold water.

 

Compared to your life they are cheap and so is having them properly maintained. The majority of professional boatmen/tug crew that I know, wear them almost all the time and ALWAYS when towing.

 

John you are so right, wearing a lifejacket is simply a no brainer BUT we as I include myself in this are pretty stupid for supposedly the most inteligent species on the planet. It is also a no brainer that all boats NEED vhf radio on commercial waterways but you get plenty on here that dispute it. Its also a no brainer that using a mobile fone whilst driving wether hands free or not is stupid the only reason hands free fones are allowed is that when legislation was being drawn up parliament were advised that it would be impossible to police hence hands free being allowed. Drunk driving, etc etc etc etc and not filling up with diesel when ya boat tank fuel gauge is reading empty

 

Tim

[George94]

As regards to being still in a lifejacket as opposed to swimming being better for hypothermia, this is incorrect your core temperature drops faster if you are moving when in cold water.

 

 

Your evidence for that?

[Barry]

Your evidence for that?

 

Heat Escape Lessening Posture