notes from septembers CRT meeting

[lesrollins]

Perhaps liveaboards need to vacate the canals altogether then the boys and there toys would have more room at the weekends.

[bowten]

Perhaps liveaboards need to vacate the canals altogether then the boys and there toys would have more room at the weekends.

[GSer]

I wonder how CaRT will ensure that boats actually visit their home moorings? 'Paper' moorings will surely become more common as the mooring/licence situation changes.

 

How would you know if you're one of the 2000 problem boats that are to be targetted, do they send you a letter?

[Jerra]

simplest solution to this inequality is to require navigation authorities to take more responsibilty for the people who live there. Or course there are many other solutions....

 

It's just not good enough to wash your hands of a vulnerable group by simply blaming them for their own situation. Apart from anything else, it's uncivilised.

 

I don't think a charity which doesn't have housing vulnerable people as a reason for its existence can be expect to become a housing charity.

 

Why should they be expected to take responsibility for people who

 

a) Chose that way of life knowing the problems and rules.

 

Have the same rights and possibilities of housing as anybody else.

 

I keep reading living on a boat is not a cheap alternative, which means to me at least, that those who choose that way of life should be able to afford a land based home if for some reason they can't live within the required rules.

 

Incidentally why are these people any more vulnerable than a person in a bedsit?

[PiRSqwared]

Perhaps liveaboards need to vacate the canals altogether then the boys and there toys would have more room at the weekends.

Aha, CaRT's wet dream!!

[lesrollins]

But whats the excuse for people to permantly reside at an home mooring and cart turn a blind eye

[lesrollins]

Perhaps i need to become a criminal then once caught the local authority could provide me with a roof over my head, bed, food and all other little goodies.

 

If there is a problem cart need to do something sensible.

I wonder if people living in large houses frown upon people living in smaller house because they pay less rates.

To think of it as them and us boils down to snobbery.

[Dave_P]

I don't think a charity which doesn't have housing vulnerable people as a reason for its existence can be expect to become a housing charity.

 

Why should they be expected to take responsibility for people who

 

a) Chose that way of life knowing the problems and rules.

 

Have the same rights and possibilities of housing as anybody else.

 

I keep reading living on a boat is not a cheap alternative, which means to me at least, that those who choose that way of life should be able to afford a land based home if for some reason they can't live within the required rules.

 

Incidentally why are these people any more vulnerable than a person in a bedsit?

 

1. I didn't say they should, just that it would be simpler if they did it rather than anyone else.

 

2. I have argued previously that living on a boat is much cheaper if you choose it to be, see my posts on other threads, or just take a wander along the more remote parts of the network and make friends with the dwellers of some of the less flashy boats.

 

3. They are more vulnerable for numerous reasons, including those I've mentioned in this thread.

 

This subject was part of some post-grad research on boat living I did earlier in the year and to which many forum members contributed. At first there was a great degree of scepticism here and people predicted that I would disappear and wouldn't share my results. When I had finished, I did offer to share my thesis with anyone who wanted a copy. Just 3 people asked for one and of those 3, only 1 thanked me... I wonder if it was me who should have been sceptical

[mayalld]

But whats the excuse for people to permantly reside at an home mooring and cart turn a blind eye

 

"Excuse"?

 

What excuse do they need, other than the fact that it is NOTHING to do with them.

 

I can only assume that you missed the bit where I mentioned that CRT don't decide whether a mooring is residential.

 

Just as they aren't responsible for providing residential moorings, they aren't (generally) responsible for policing compliance with planning regulations.

 

Perhaps i need to become a criminal then once caught the local authority could provide me with a roof over my head, bed, food and all other little goodies.

 

Indeed, you apparent wish for CRT to deal with every aspect of providing for your needs, and for it to interfere in anything that even vaguely approaches your life (even if it isn't their responsibility) does appear to show that you have a deep rooted wish to be institutionalised.

[mickspangle]

What about if boats with moorings displayed something about the same size as the license with a big M on it to differentiate from those without moorings?

[Paul C]

OK, OK, i was quite interested in this one as well;

 

"It  will  be  important  to  get  to  a  point  where   peer  pressure/self-­‐policing  makes  significant  contribution   "

 

but was struggling with the image in my mind.

 

so how about this one;

 

 

 

(even I don't have the bad taste to post an image of a burning boat)

 

I was going to make this point as well, but a picture tells a thousand words.

 

The combined effect of requiring to display a "I am a CCer" licence and the desire for self-policing, should be worrisome for most CCers (even those who are compliant). Instead of needing to keep within the requirements as set out in law; or even the C&RT interpretation of this (or pragmatically, stay on the right side of whatever enforcement action is taken or not, in that local area), they will have to take the risk of direct action by other boaters who don't sympathise with their situation/licence choice; or just keep moving from place to place so as to less noticeable and keep below the radar of those boaters who might be upset/etc (this should be quite achievable by those CCers who do choose to extensively navigate the canal network).

 

Hopefully what will happen is that all boaters' awareness of the issues surrounding CCing will be raised; and that others will empathise, rather than turn against CCers. But then there is always a small minority of grumpy boaters who like to cause trouble.

 

Worrying times ahead indeed for CCers.

 

PS Will be interesting to see if they can enforce the display of the CC licence - bylaw?

[Dave_P]

Divide and conquer - the oldest strategy in the book....

[Chris Pink]

Indeed and more invidiously those on the water as of July 2012 will be treated differently from those coming after.

 

Where they think they have the law for that?

 

But it puts existing boaters in the unenviable position of bring asked to sign up for something that boaters with identical boating patterns are excluded from.

 

Divide and divide again.

[jenlyn]

Indeed and more invidiously those on the water as of July 2012 will be treated differently from those coming after.

 

Where they think they have the law for that?

 

But it puts existing boaters in the unenviable position of bring asked to sign up for something that boaters with identical boating patterns are excluded from.

 

Divide and divide again.

They can't withold a cc license if you refuse to fill out the questionare. CRT are as usual blowing in the wind. Making it up as they go along, trying to have us believe they have powers that in fact are just bullxxxx. Hurry up and retire Mr Evans! Do us all a favour.

[Guest]

Strikes me some CC'rs have one or more of the following -

 

- A serious persecution complex

 

- A degree of paranoia

 

- A massive chip on their shoulder

 

- A lack of understanding of what is required just to conform to the stipulations in their licence.

[jenlyn]

 

 

- A lack of understanding of what is required just to conform to the stipulations in their licence.

No, they just ignore that one.

[Chris Pink]

They can't withold a cc license if you refuse to fill out the questionare. CRT are as usual blowing in the wind. Making it up as they go along, trying to have us believe they have powers that in fact are just bullxxxx. Hurry up and retire Mr Evans! Do us all a favour.

 

That's not what i meant, i was referring to this, in the Ash Briefing under "differentiation"

 

It is not a policy option that should apply to new arrivals. Already established residents may be eligible to take up a newly defined ‘community mooring permit’ (subject to conditions), but the permit will not be assignable to any other person. By this means, over a period of, say, 10 – 15 years, the number of permits would be expected to decline naturally as people move on or into land based accommodation.

[mayalld]

They can't withold a cc license if you refuse to fill out the questionare. CRT are as usual blowing in the wind. Making it up as they go along, trying to have us believe they have powers that in fact are just bullxxxx. Hurry up and retire Mr Evans! Do us all a favour.

The law says you must satisfy them.

 

If you refuse to comply with a requirement to provide them with answers as to what you intend to do to comply with the requirement to engage in bona fide navigation they can quite reasonably decide that they are not satisfied and refuse a licence.

[jenlyn]

That's not what i meant, i was referring to this, in the Ash Briefing under "differentiation"

Ok, thought you meant the pre cruising declaration.

 

The law says you must satisfy them.

 

If you refuse to comply with a requirement to provide them with answers as to what you intend to do to comply with the requirement to engage in bona fide navigation they can quite reasonably decide that they are not satisfied and refuse a licence.

It does not say anywhere that I have to supply them with my next 12 months cruising pattern before they provide me with a license, I only have to prove I am moving every 14 days in a Bonaifide manner. That's the law. Don't bother with any of your interpretations.

[mickspangle]

A less enlightened person might ask for a picture...

 

Edited November 7, 2012 by mickspangle

[Pickles2]

 

One of these chaps deep in conversation, is being discriminated against. Is it:

 

A - The chap with the lovely yellow star attached to his lapel

 

or

 

B - The fellow in the rather fetching uniform with the funny little squiggle on his arm

 

 

 

I want a yellow star for my boat.

[jenlyn]

 

One of these chaps deep in conversation, is being discriminated against. Is it:

 

A - The chap with the lovely yellow star attached to his lapel

 

or

 

B - The fellow in the rather fetching uniform with the funny little squiggle on his arm

 

 

 

I want a yellow star for my boat.

Not a good comparison, sorry, does not suit my sense of humour

[Starcoaster]

Deleted, I just can't be arsed.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Starcoaster

[matty40s]

 

- A massive chip on their shoulder

 

 

strikes me, some of the posters on here are similar...

[PiRSqwared]

strikes me, some of the posters on here are similar...

No, much more balanced than that - a chip on each shoulder