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Grand Union C C Co Ltd wartime livery

Laurence Hogg

By Laurence Hogg
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Laurence Hogg Veteran

Laurence Hogg

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I am currently working on a fairly large number of images of the "idle women" as part of a joint job in conjunction with TWT/CRT. After a conversation with Pete Harrison today both he and I are beginning to think the cabin sides were just the plain red from the previous fully lined out livery, It was an austerity livery which was easy to maintain but today there seems to be a belief that the cabin sides were maroon.

None of the pictures I have seem to support this, both in my own collection and from TWT not one has a dark side or a side which looks to be a different shade to other boats. Sadly unlike for the two previous colour schemes there doesnt as yet seem to be any colour images. There also seems no obvious reason to go to a deeper colour. We know that when BW painted the few pairs for the Coronation that the colours were the same as the previous red, white and blue as colour photographs exist of these boats.

So what are your thoughts? has anyone seen a colour picture defining a darker colour?

 

gallery_5000_522_219722.jpg

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cl@rkey Collaborator

cl@rkey

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So what are your thoughts? has anyone seen a colour picture defining a darker colour?

Hi Laurence,

 

I can't help you myself, but there was a discussion on here 2 years ago in which both Pete Harrison and yourself took part. My link. At the time, the concensus seemed to be that red was the wartime livery. Has the general opinion changed since then?

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pete harrison Veteran

pete harrison

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At the time, the concensus seemed to be that red was the wartime livery. Has the general opinion changed since then?

Only in so much as a number of current owners of G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. boats are using maroon instead of red, and some are claiming it to be historically correct.

 

My other gripe is owners recreating the previous 'Coronation' livery using a 'sky blue' rather than the blue of the Union Flag. Of course I do fully appreciate owners can do what they like with their boats including painting them however they want to (I had BADSEY in red oxide for quite a while - which I liked and frustrated the 'enthusiasts').

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cl@rkey Collaborator

cl@rkey

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Only in so much as a number of current owners of G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. boats are using maroon instead of red, and some are claiming it to be historically correct.

 

My other gripe is owners recreating the previous 'Coronation' livery using a 'sky blue' rather than the blue of the Union Flag. Of course I do fully appreciate owners can do what they like with their boats including painting them however they want to (I had BADSEY in red oxide for quite a while - which I liked and frustrated the 'enthusiasts').

Ah right, thanks Pete.

 

Do those with sky blue attempt to claim it replicates a 'sun-faded Royal Blue, I wonder?

 

Btw, I love red oxide too! And grey primer. Which may come in handy if I'm ever too skint to finish a paint job. :)

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David Mack Veteran II

David MackDonate to Canal World

Posted
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I am currently working on a fairly large number of images of the "idle women" as part of a joint job in conjunction with TWT/CRT. After a conversation with Pete Harrison today both he and I are beginning to think the cabin sides were just the plain red from the previous fully lined out livery, It was an austerity livery which was easy to maintain but today there seems to be a belief that the cabin sides were maroon.

None of the pictures I have seem to support this, both in my own collection and from TWT not one has a dark side or a side which looks to be a different shade to other boats. Sadly unlike for the two previous colour schemes there doesnt as yet seem to be any colour images. There also seems no obvious reason to go to a deeper colour. We know that when BW painted the few pairs for the Coronation that the colours were the same as the previous red, white and blue as colour photographs exist of these boats.

So what are your thoughts? has anyone seen a colour picture defining a darker colour?

 

gallery_5000_522_219722.jpg

 

As one of the guilty boats, we chose Fulbourne's wartime livery on the basis of the Colours of the Cut drawings then featured in Waterways World. The actual colour was matched fairly closely to Sculptor, on the basis that a museum boat ought to be correct.

 

Perhaps that faith was a little misplaced. But I suspect that the current prevalence of maroon may owe something ro these two sources.

 

The particular paint we have used changes colour with time. It starts out deep red, but goes a bit drab purple after a few years.

 

Another point. We have the white line only along the top of the red panel as in Lawrence's photo, but others put it on all 4 sides. Is there a historical precedent for both?

Edited by David Mack
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c c Rising Star

c c

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We have the white line only along the top of the red panel as in Lawrence's photo, but others put it on all 4 sides. Is there a historical precedent for both?

 

We have a black and white photo of Jack James on Badsey with GUCCCo wartime livery circa 1940's - it shows a White/cream line on all four sides.

As stated in the other thread referred to, we did intend to have the cabin professionally painted but were quoted such huge sums that I did it myself and was fairly pleased with the result. After long debate and listening to all the argument, we decided on using Mason's House Colour Deep Red, mostly because we just loved the colour.

I opened the engine hole door this morning to see if the red paint on the inside of the door still matches the paint on the cabin side and there is no apparent fading at all after more than 2years.

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Laurence Hogg Veteran

Laurence Hogg

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This picture is the only colour one so far found showing the austerity livery, it is a genuine colour photo not a hand coloured one (not like the ones which show greenish GU early livery). Although pretty battered this small Woolwich has plenty of evidence to show. The boat is probably "Hyperion" as she was sold to S E Barlow's.

 

gallery_5000_522_155151.jpg

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I'm more worried about the bloke on the roof of the GU motor!

 

Yes I didn't want to mention the corpse on the roof -

 

That said I reminded me that I've seen that picture somewhere before but can't for the life of me think where...

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Laurence Hogg Veteran

Laurence Hogg

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Marvellous to see that photo, thanks for posting it.

The boat on the extreme right at the top looks an odd shape. Has its cabin been removed, or has it been sheeted over, perhaps to stop leakage?

The boat in the background is Joe Skinner's "Friendship" which is now preserved at Ellesmere Port. The other boat is a BCN style wooden day boat.

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ChimneyChain Rising Star

ChimneyChain

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Yes I didn't want to mention the corpse on the roof -

 

That said I reminded me that I've seen that picture somewhere before but can't for the life of me think where...

 

There was a thread about 6 months ago on here showing

war time photos that were printed in the daily mail,

 

Darren

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Laurence Hogg Veteran

Laurence Hogg

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Is that not just a very faded and rather battered maroon??

You will note the GU and public health numbers arew missing, the boat was re registered at Tamworth so a new registration number would need to be put on, the cabin side may well have been rubbed down ready for the repaint into Barlow's livery.

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You will note the GU and public health numbers arew missing, the boat was re registered at Tamworth so a new registration number would need to be put on, the cabin side may well have been rubbed down ready for the repaint into Barlow's livery.

 

Ok - but still previously maroon???

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Laurence Hogg Veteran

Laurence Hogg

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There was a thread about 6 months ago on here showing

war time photos that were printed in the daily mail,

 

Darren

Darren I posted some from Picture Post Sept 1939 issue on the 9th June.

 

The reason I have raised this query on the colour is that now we have many more pictures to assess and none show a deep colour on the cabins as far as can be seen.

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The original picture has a nice level of colours right through the full range when viewed with a histgram output. I have applied a even level of increased saturation to the image which brings up all the colours evenly.

 

Well yes now it is certainly a much nearer match to the lady's red coat and the red on the butty than maroon.

 

I also think the side hatches are a different colour again are they not? - or have had more prep than the cabin sides perhaps?

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