The Big Question

[dmtarry]

Hi all

I would like some opinions from members, in particular those who currently live afloat regarding the cost of living aboard under the following circumstances?

 

My wife has a part time job that we would keep for a couple of years so marina based initially? (salary minimal £5,000 pa) also to stay closer to grandchildren and I will also look for part time work. (Honest)

Then we want move out to CC the system for a few years?

 

I have copied our prior post below as background information, though we seem to be leaning towards buying a NB 57ft from the sale of a small house valued at £75-£80k which will also enable us to pay off the balance of our mortgages assuming £50k for the boat and £25k to pay of outstanding mortgages. We have a small amount of capital around us, and will look to rent our main home out and have been told by two agents to expect £1,000 per month as rental. (After costs etc assuming £10k net) When in the marina I am assuming that we would need to use our reserves to pay mooring fees though the part time work will help in this respect? and of course diesel costs will be far less if not cc. I suppose if we cut to the chase we need to know if the £10k pa will be enough to fund our lives without eating to quickly into the reserves particularly when CC the system? If and when we decide to move back we will sell and move down releasing capital along with our small pensions to retire?

 

Its getting scary now as we move closer to the actual time to do this! your comments will be welcome as always.

 

David and Doreen

 

 

"Hi All

We are at the point of decided whether time is right to now move onto a boat, and then the next decision to buy a narrow boat or a wide beam boat with a view to living aboard, We expect initialy to be marina based around the greater Warrington, Cheshire area but with a view to continuouse cruising for a number of years. I am or have recentley been made redundant though fortunatley with two properties, one large 4 bed detached and one small two bed terrace which will have to fund our potential escape and retirement? We owned a 57 ft David Piper narrow boat for 4/5 years a long time ago when our children were to young and as they do the kids found it boring and we sold it assuming we would return once ready to retire. As you would expect it would be great to keep the house or houses and own a narrow boat for extended cruising as and when we wished, but an ideal world this is not. So we will propably sell one rent the other out or sell both and have to live of the capital until my small private pension kicks in (anytime i want in reality) and eventually our state pensions (Currently 56 years old).

 

I am sure there is a great debate about narrow boats v wide beams for this purpose and would be grateful for any advise and views regarding the restrictions of available travel and cost differences between the two?

Would be great to make contact with people who are doing this now!"

[Chertsey]

I would say that provided you do not have expensive tastes (eat out a lot etc) and depending on the cost of your mooring, that would be quite comfortable on your rental income. Think of that as living money and your wife's wages for mooring, licence, insurance etc.

[dmtarry]

I would say that provided you do not have expensive tastes (eat out a lot etc) and depending on the cost of your mooring, that would be quite comfortable on your rental income. Think of that as living money and your wife's wages for mooring, licence, insurance etc.

 

Thats kid of how we see it at the moment with the use of a bit of the reserves as and when needed? our friends seem ok as cc on his pension which is a similar amount. I suppose it is a bit of the luck of the draw re equipment failure and the odd unforeseen expenses cropping up?

 

David and Doreen

Edited July 28, 2012 by dmtarry

[Tuscan]

Thats kid of how we see it at the moment with the use of a bit of the reserves as and when needed? our friends seem ok as cc on his pension which is a similar amount. I suppose it is a bit of the luck of the draw re equipment failure and the odd unforeseen expenses cropping up?

 

David and Doreen

 

 

I think you you should think how much you spend a year living in your man house , including averaging costs for reprinting etc etc and then increase by 20% plus , to take account of things like mooring being more than council tax, marina electric more than domestic, boat license and boat safety more than car tax etc etc

[Starcoaster]

Electric in my maria comes off as significantly cheaper than in my previous house. My spring/ summer bill was about £120 in the house for a quarter, £33 this year for the same period on the boat. I am on constant hook up and don't need to run the engine for power, so diesel is not on top of that cost, only for cruising.

[Ally]

I'm working your income out at £15,000 which is more than we live on between the two of us,(plus a hungry dog) so you should be ok, again as long as you're not into eating our every night. A lot will depend on the costs of your mooring...as CC'ers, it should be a breeze. Try and work on living on £10,000-£12,000, to allow some spare for emergencies.

[bottle]

Sorry, pessimist around.

 

You may well be able to live and pay for the boat on £10,000 per annum but will you actually have £10,000.

 

If you do rent out the house do not expect to get anywhere near the quoted figures from the agent, for the income..

 

The house may not and will probably not be occupied for twelve months of the year, work on six, out of that income the house will need insurance (landlords), regular maintenance, safety requirements (gas etc.) and horrors of horrors the tenants wreck the place and it is out of commission, even more rent loss.

 

Wife's salary will pay for the boat annual costs, probably, but is the work and her health guaranteed.

 

You are 56 so, I believe, your state pension will not be at 65 but a lot nearer 70 can you wait that long.

 

Pessimist has left.

 

One thing you mention, living of your capital, I do hope that was a typo and you meant interest from the capital.

[Arthur Brown]

Boating can be done from neo squat cheap to palace expensive. Council tax is a growing concern, councils looking for funds are closing loopholes and a mooring uniquely yours may attract full tax, sometimes a shared mooring may attract a single council tax to be divided between moorers perhaps by the mooring operator.

 

Boats do seem to have crises which demand instant cash -sometimes lots of it- BOAT Bring Out Another Thousand is a fair saying. See (on here) a boat needing rescuing from a weir overnight http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=49033&view=findpost&p=913547,

a boat sunk in a lock for a week http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48829&view=findpost&p=909748 ,

and Wandering Snail's unplanned meeting with a digger http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48165&view=findpost&p=896420 . It also happens that lots of things are NOT covered by insurance especially alternative accommodation.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Arthur Brown

[dmtarry]

Sorry, pessimist around.

 

You may well be able to live and pay for the boat on £10,000 per annum but will you actually have £10,000.

 

If you do rent out the house do not expect to get anywhere near the quoted figures from the agent, for the income..

 

The house may not and will probably not be occupied for twelve months of the year, work on six, out of that income the house will need insurance (landlords), regular maintenance, safety requirements (gas etc.) and horrors of horrors the tenants wreck the place and it is out of commission, even more rent loss.

 

Wife's salary will pay for the boat annual costs, probably, but is the work and her health guaranteed.

 

You are 56 so, I believe, your state pension will not be at 65 but a lot nearer 70 can you wait that long.

 

Pessimist has left.

 

One thing you mention, living of your capital, I do hope that was a typo and you meant interest from the capital.

[dmtarry]

Hi all

Many thanks for the replies to date I could do with many more views on this issue if possible?

 

Many thanks for the PM also Bottle I do understand and thank you for your comments, whilst I am comfortable at the agents rental projections and costs leaving 10K clearly the property needs to be rented to achieve that? I laboured this point specifically with both agencies and will investigate further to be satisfied though they both appear to have customers waiting for 4 bed detached in this location, and both feel that they can have a let within 4 weeks of going on market? However this is a risk as always and I suppose that is where we will have to evaluate the risks after our friends on here point the potential pitfalls out to us. As well as the rental income we will as noted earlier have a reserve of cash that we can draw on in times of need and in truth it is difficult to know whether it is a good idea to announce these details in an open forum? should we need to also spend 2-3 k pa we would be ok for 8 to 10 years. Currently they tell me my state pension is due to start at 66? God knows though, I do also have a small private pension that I can draw on at any time preferring to leave that where it is as part of our backstop when and if we return and sell up to move down.

 

At 56 yrs old (not wanting to upset anyone here) I figure on 10 to 14 years of time in which I should be able to cope well with life aboard! I am aware many can do so longer but many cannot so I am taking a pessimistic view here with my family health history not being a great positive influence. Therefore every year we wait is a year we may not be able to replace? having worked for 40 years (Left school at 15 in them days) and bringing 3 great children all in good relationships and settled got them through universities, foreign holidays bought cars and helped them get their own houses and all of that as many others have done - is it time to escape will funds permit?

 

David and Doreen

[bottle]

is it time to escape will funds permit?

 

Non pessimist or is that an optimist around.

 

Yes and Yes

 

Seriously, I think you have your head screwed on the right way round and are weighing up the options very sensibly.

 

I just think you need that push.

 

Push !!!

[dmtarry]

Non pessimist or is that an optimist around.

 

Yes and Yes

 

Seriously, I think you have your head screwed on the right way round and are weighing up the options very sensibly.

 

I just think you need that push.

 

Push !!!

 

 

 

I nearly went in then Bottle?

[Arthur Brown]

Walk the waterways near your home area, if it says for sale then chat to them consider making an immediate offer if you really like the boat. When you have seen a score of boats then you will know what you are looking for -long /short conventional or reverse layout and shhh! pump or or cassette.

Some boat sales seem to be sticking so once you have half chosen one put in a fair offer.

[dmtarry]

Walk the waterways near your home area, if it says for sale then chat to them consider making an immediate offer if you really like the boat. When you have seen a score of boats then you will know what you are looking for -long /short conventional or reverse layout and shhh! pump or or cassette.

Some boat sales seem to be sticking so once you have half chosen one put in a fair offer.

 

 

Doing that on a regular basis at the moment Arthur, some lovely boats about and seems that its a buyers market though some people seem to be in cuckoo land and asking ridiculous prices that cannot be achieved. Some of these I suspect are in so deep with circumstances suddenly changed (As did mine when I suddenly got made redundant) they are struggling to find a way back? Its a great shame to see people in this situation? However my son confirmed tonight that he is buying my other house and has met his bank manager to discus things, this will put us in a good position shortly, once we have the cash available I will be able to go shopping seriously with a cheque book in my hand? He is also going to meet with HSBC who are apparently leading the new mortgage situation with Nat west and Midland in some turmoil?

 

 

David and Doreen

[Steilsteven]

My advice, for what it's worth, is make a list of all the costs you are likely to incur.

 

Examples:

 

Docking and survey.

Bi annual docking ( you might be prepared to diy the blacking in the first few years but your enthusiasm for this will wain as time goes by )

Repainting ( plan to do this every five years )see www.boatpaint.co.uk for prices of paints.

Boat safety inspection ( every four years ).

Insurance including contents.

Boat license.

Gas ( allow 1 13kg bottle per month for cooking only ).

Diesel ( allow 1 litre per hour for the amout of cruising you intend and 1/2 litre per hour for heating if applicable )

Smokeless fuel ( allow 2 tonnes per year if applicable ).

Electricity, of course depends on what appliances you have on board but as a rough guide allow £60 per quarter.

 

There will be those who argue that these amounts are over the top and they use much less but better to over than under estimate.

 

Whatever boat you eventually buy, there will be things that you'll want/need to fit,change or renew such as a solid fuel stove ( if there isn't one fitted already you'll need to add in the cost of alterations to accomodate it ), inverter to provide 240 volt, solar panels or even some parts of the fit out itself. You may not think you'll need any of this now but, I promiss, you will.

 

Coincidentally, I was 56 when I sold my house and bought my barge but never looked back, it's been seven years now and I still think it's the best thing I ever did.

 

Keith

[Ally]

Another way to look at it:

In everything we do we take risks, jobs may or may not be secure, houses may rise or fall in value, or even be destroyed by some unexpected force, people are born, people die. We may get run over next time we cross the road (with or without clean undies on!) We may live to be 100.

Life is full of the changeable, and not one of us can predict what is around the corner, good or bad.

How many times do we hear people regretting they didn't do something they wanted to either earlier in life, or at all even.

Take your opportunities in both hands, if something is attracting you, follow your heart. If it turns out to be wrong for you, at least you know you tried it.

Yes, prepare and research, but follow where life seems to be taking you and don't live regretting not doing so.

[Ange]

Another way to look at it:

In everything we do we take risks, jobs may or may not be secure, houses may rise or fall in value, or even be destroyed by some unexpected force, people are born, people die. We may get run over next time we cross the road (with or without clean undies on!) We may live to be 100.

Life is full of the changeable, and not one of us can predict what is around the corner, good or bad.

How many times do we hear people regretting they didn't do something they wanted to either earlier in life, or at all even.

Take your opportunities in both hands, if something is attracting you, follow your heart. If it turns out to be wrong for you, at least you know you tried it.

Yes, prepare and research, but follow where life seems to be taking you and don't live regretting not doing so.

 

What that lady said!!! That's why I ditched a very well paid but hugely stressful job and now have a fantastic life living aboard our boat without the money and security we had before.

 

I know it's a corny saying but this ain't a rehearsal

[Tuscan]

Having survived a big cancer op, hopefully permanentley, you realise you are mortal, took a while stopped long commute chacing the dollar (which paid for the boat)spending 3 months on the boat this year and much longer next year. We are both very very happy.

[comfortably numb]

Our situation is very similar to DMTarry's. We've decided we've had enough of the rat race and are going to take the plunge (I'm 58 and my wife is 54). Our boat purchase will be paid for with our share in two property sales (deceased parents) and then we plan to let our own 4 bedroomed house out to help with the income.

 

The main obstacle we are finding is the house sales being so slow with the way the market is at the moment, and this is something you should bear in mind if you need this as a way of funding the purchase. We've been looking at 2nd hand boats for a month or so now as we were told it could take a long time to find the right one even if we have a flexible 'wish list' of what we want. Murphy's law being what it is, we found the ideal boat quite quickly but cannot buy it because we need one of the houses sold to pay for it. But we know there will be others.

 

We are gaining good experience looking at boats and one thing we have found is that some of the boats aren't nearly as good as they look on a website. Obviously it pays to do the initial searching online but it still pays to see as many boats as possible, and that includes ones which are slightly above your budget, partly so you can gauge market values better but also because some sellers may be willing to reduce their asking prices more than you think.

 

Our biggest issue is what stern type to go for (hence my ealier question about dogs and traditional sterns).

[Liam]

Two things I've noticed in your initial post...

 

You've listed £50,000 as being the budget you have for your new boat, but of course you wouldn't need to spend this much to get what you're after. I'm sure there will be boats in the £30,00 to £40,000 range which would suit you also so this would leave a bit more extra in the 'kitty'.

 

You've also mentioned that you're in the Warrington area, which covers the southern Bridgewaster and the northern (just) Trent & Mersey, if you're thinking on being based on the Trent & Mersey then you'll have to go down the narrow boat route. If you prefer wide beamed boats then you'll need to be based on the Bridgewater. The Bridgewater is owned by the Bridgewater Canal Co. so cruising onto the Leeds & Liverpool, etc, would mean the cost of a BW concessionary license.

[dmtarry]

Our situation is very similar to DMTarry's. We've decided we've had enough of the rat race and are going to take the plunge (I'm 58 and my wife is 54). Our boat purchase will be paid for with our share in two property sales (deceased parents) and then we plan to let our own 4 bedroomed house out to help with the income.

 

The main obstacle we are finding is the house sales being so slow with the way the market is at the moment, and this is something you should bear in mind if you need this as a way of funding the purchase. We've been looking at 2nd hand boats for a month or so now as we were told it could take a long time to find the right one even if we have a flexible 'wish list' of what we want. Murphy's law being what it is, we found the ideal boat quite quickly but cannot buy it because we need one of the houses sold to pay for it. But we know there will be others.

 

We are gaining good experience looking at boats and one thing we have found is that some of the boats aren't nearly as good as they look on a website. Obviously it pays to do the initial searching online but it still pays to see as many boats as possible, and that includes ones which are slightly above your budget, partly so you can gauge market values better but also because some sellers may be willing to reduce their asking prices more than you think.

 

Our biggest issue is what stern type to go for (hence my ealier question about dogs and traditional sterns).

 

 

Hi

Nice to know someone else is going through the same issues and dilemma's as us, do let us know how you get on? are you southern based or Northern, we are Warrington based.

 

 

Dave and Doreen

[STUBAG]

Before you settle for a wide-beam on the Bridgewater Canal, check with Mike Webb (Peel Holdings) about exactly how many "residential moorings" are available...you may get a very unpleasant shock!

[dmtarry]

Two things I've noticed in your initial post...

 

You've listed £50,000 as being the budget you have for your new boat, but of course you wouldn't need to spend this much to get what you're after. I'm sure there will be boats in the £30,00 to £40,000 range which would suit you also so this would leave a bit more extra in the 'kitty'.

 

You've also mentioned that you're in the Warrington area, which covers the southern Bridgewaster and the northern (just) Trent & Mersey, if you're thinking on being based on the Trent & Mersey then you'll have to go down the narrow boat route. If you prefer wide beamed boats then you'll need to be based on the Bridgewater. The Bridgewater is owned by the Bridgewater Canal Co. so cruising onto the Leeds & Liverpool, etc, would mean the cost of a BW concessionary license.

 

 

True I was assuming that I would have to spend more? will find out when we eventually get out in a position to buy one? as noted earlier we think a 57ft nb is the way and when we have the cash to do it we will hopefully be able to negotiate the deal we want? not going window shopping when not in a position t buy!

 

David and Doreen

 

Having survived a big cancer op, hopefully permanentley, you realise you are mortal, took a while stopped long commute chacing the dollar (which paid for the boat)spending 3 months on the boat this year and much longer next year. We are both very very happy.

 

 

Hi Tuscan

God news re the opp hope all goes well and you are ale to spend time out and about.

 

David and Doreen

[comfortably numb]

Hi

Nice to know someone else is going through the same issues and dilemma's as us, do let us know how you get on? are you southern based or Northern, we are Warrington based.

 

 

Dave and Doreen

 

We are in the middle - Sutton Coldfield in the West Midlands so we have plenty of canals/moorings to choose from.

 

Liam makes a good point about price ranges, in that there are some good boats in the £30 - £40k range especially if you're prepared to search. There are some dreadful ones as well though!

 

This is roughly the price range we are looking at, partly so as to leave us some spare cash to give some leeway while we get used to the costs of living aboard, and also because we've heard so many say that people often change their first liveaboard quite quickly because no matter how much you think it will suit, it isn't until you actually live on it that you discover what features/layout is the most important for you. Therefore better to buy cheaper in the first place and then upgrade in due course.

 

We've hired narrowboats nearly every year for the past 35 years, and for the last 3 years have part owned one, and it has included 'living' on it for a week in mid winter when it was -12c at night, so it at least gave us a flavour but nothing like living full time on one would.

 

Neil

Edited July 30, 2012 by comfortably numb

[dmtarry]

My advice, for what it's worth, is make a list of all the costs you are likely to incur.

 

Examples:

 

Docking and survey.

Bi annual docking ( you might be prepared to diy the blacking in the first few years but your enthusiasm for this will wain as time goes by )

Repainting ( plan to do this every five years )see www.boatpaint.co.uk for prices of paints.

Boat safety inspection ( every four years ).

Insurance including contents.

Boat license.

Gas ( allow 1 13kg bottle per month for cooking only ).

Diesel ( allow 1 litre per hour for the amout of cruising you intend and 1/2 litre per hour for heating if applicable )

Smokeless fuel ( allow 2 tonnes per year if applicable ).

Electricity, of course depends on what appliances you have on board but as a rough guide allow £60 per quarter.

 

There will be those who argue that these amounts are over the top and they use much less but better to over than under estimate.

 

Whatever boat you eventually buy, there will be things that you'll want/need to fit,change or renew such as a solid fuel stove ( if there isn't one fitted already you'll need to add in the cost of alterations to accomodate it ), inverter to provide 240 volt, solar panels or even some parts of the fit out itself. You may not think you'll need any of this now but, I promiss, you will.

 

Coincidentally, I was 56 when I sold my house and bought my barge but never looked back, it's been seven years now and I still think it's the best thing I ever did.

 

Keith

 

 

Many thanks Keith, glad you have enjoyed your time afloat.

 

 

David and Doreen