Raw cooling & winter.

[Monkey 1]

Are there any members who live aboard that have a raw cooled engine? How do you get on with freezing etc? Do they need draining over the winter months or taking out of the water etc, or is it possible to use them as normal through the cold & freezing weather?

 

I guess what I'm asking is, is it possible to use my raw cooled bmc engined cruiser as a house boat?

[Grace and Favour]

Are there any members who live aboard that have a raw cooled engine? How do you get on with freezing etc? Do they need draining over the winter months or taking out of the water etc, or is it possible to use them as normal through the cold & freezing weather?

 

I guess what I'm asking is, is it possible to use my raw cooled bmc engined cruiser as a house boat?

 

Raw water cooling aside...

How well insulated is your cruiser? Is it suitable, as a boat, to be used as a live aboard?

[Monkey 1]

Hi, It is an old boat but I have recently re fitted it & insulated it well. It is only single glazed with hopper style windows. It's 45ft long & now has a full size shower, bed, full cooker hot water supplied by a calorifier, 12v fridge & a multi fuel stove just requiring a flue fitting. I've left room & plumbing for a washing machine but am unsure if I will fit one yet. I have a generator that is theoretically large enough to power one.

 

We already spend all our time on the boat & find it comfortable to live on but we haven't considered winter use yet.

[MtB]

I'd say if you run the engine and fully warm it up every day in sub-zero weather, there will be virtually zero risk of frost damage.

 

Forget for a day though, and you could do some serious damage. Or the frost could.

[ditchcrawler]

Are there any members who live aboard that have a raw cooled engine? How do you get on with freezing etc? Do they need draining over the winter months or taking out of the water etc, or is it possible to use them as normal through the cold & freezing weather?

 

I guess what I'm asking is, is it possible to use my raw cooled bmc engined cruiser as a house boat?

Is the engine "Raw water cooled" or is it via a raw water heat exchanger as I note your hot water is via a calorifier.

[Monkey 1]

It's raw cooled via a heat exchanger. I recently replaced the anti freeze in the sealed part of the system.

[OldGoat]

One of my Thames boater friends fitted a remote temperature monitor these last two winters.

 

The boat is in the water and in the engine bay the temperature - even this last year - never fell below 4deg C. It was colder in the cabin; but not that cold.

I used to flush the raw side with diluted antifreeze - just to sit in the bottom of the water block (?), but with the heat exchanger empty. Now I don't bother with the antifreeze, just kee free water away from the heat exchanger - and that's probably not necessary either.

[koukouvagia]

If you've got a Jabsco pump on the raw water set up make sure you drain it by loosening the bolts on the face plate.

[ditchcrawler]

It's raw cooled via a heat exchanger. I recently replaced the anti freeze in the sealed part of the system.

You could follow this advice http://www.tb-training.co.uk/15cool.htm#bmn53

[Monkey 1]

It's looking like the boat will be unusable in winter unless I run the engine all the time, that's a shame.

 

How about fitting a skin tank? Likely to be pricey I guess?

Edited July 13, 2012 by Monkey 1

[GUMPY]

It's raw cooled via a heat exchanger. I recently replaced the anti freeze in the sealed part of the system.

I have a similar system with the engine in its own uninsulated engine room with no proper heating and its on the other side of a steel bulkhead from the rest of the boat.

Anti freeze in the closed system at 50%, I have the mikuni which is in the engine room set to come on from 0400-06.30 to heat the water and the boat, the heat from the mikuni running keeps most of the frost at bay.

When it gets really bad I fill the raw water side with 50/50 antifreeze and just don't run the engine. Never removed the impeller on the main engine but do when I remember on the beta genset.

Been OK for 10 years like this.

New boat also has a similar indirect system but its a trad so the engine is inside the boat so there is a good chance I wont bother to do anything except 50/50 in the closed circuit.

[MtB]

It's looking like the boat will be unusable in winter unless I run the engine all the time, that's a shame.

Eh? Who said that? Running it once a day will be enough!

 

As you requested for advice specifically from live-aboards in your OP, it seemed as though you lived aboard. maybe you don't live aboard after all and visiting to run the engine every day is not possible.

 

But as it turns out you have RWC via a heat exchanger, it all changes. Antifreeze in the sealed bit as you already mention, and drain down the RW circuit and its pump. Easy.

 

 

How about fitting a skin tank? Likely to be pricey I guess?

A four figure sum for a yard to do it I'd guess, and prossibly not beginning with a '1'....

 

Mike

[Monkey 1]

Sorry Mike, I meant running every day. At the moment We have minimal power requirements sometimes only 'needing' to go cruising after 3 days to charge up etc, It's not a big issue but It would be a shame to have to run it every day Just to stop it freezing up. Having said that I assume our power usage will increase a lot over winter & I will have to charge every day.

 

We have a house but have been living aboard for a while now & would like to stay on if possible as we love it.

 

If I fit an engine compartment temp gauge to keep an eye on things this could help me manage the freezing issue a little better. Excuse my ramblings, just typing out loud!

[ditchcrawler]

Sorry Mike, I meant running every day. At the moment We have minimal power requirements sometimes only 'needing' to go cruising after 3 days to charge up etc, It's not a big issue but It would be a shame to have to run it every day Just to stop it freezing up. Having said that I assume our power usage will increase a lot over winter & I will have to charge every day.

 

We have a house but have been living aboard for a while now & would like to stay on if possible as we love it.

 

If I fit an engine compartment temp gauge to keep an eye on things this could help me manage the freezing issue a little better. Excuse my ramblings, just typing out loud!

Is you boat a cruiser stern or trad. If you keep the boat warm then maybe you will be able to keep the engine above freezing without to much problem. Last winter a live aboard with a tug style boat had problems with pipes freezing under the tug deck because of the good insulation between the cabin , which was warn and under the tug deck.

[MtB]

Sorry Mike, I meant running every day. At the moment We have minimal power requirements sometimes only 'needing' to go cruising after 3 days to charge up etc, It's not a big issue but It would be a shame to have to run it every day Just to stop it freezing up. Having said that I assume our power usage will increase a lot over winter & I will have to charge every day.

 

We have a house but have been living aboard for a while now & would like to stay on if possible as we love it.

 

If I fit an engine compartment temp gauge to keep an eye on things this could help me manage the freezing issue a little better. Excuse my ramblings, just typing out loud!

 

 

I think you are over-panicking! Don't forget you only need to protect against frost at the times when it is sub-zero for extended periods of time. Possibly only about 10 days year, if that! Night frost is not really a risk. Its when the daytime temp stays at or below zero you need to to worry, or rather, run the engine regularly.

 

Yes an engine compartment gauge is a good idea. I bet you find the temp stays above zero a lot longer than you think, and don't forget, it takes a good few hours of sub-zero ambient engine bay temp to actually freeze a pipe, let alone crack a heat exchanger or anything important.

 

Mike

[bizzard]

You could lag the heat exchanger,pipes and sea cock with insulation too. Lots of straw all tied on with string and bound up with strips of old blanket, old socks anything really quite cheaply.

[blackrose]

You could lag the heat exchanger,pipes and sea cock with insulation too. Lots of straw all tied on with string and bound up with strips of old blanket, old socks anything really quite cheaply.

 

Who wants all that old rubbish in their engine space?

 

Good quality, fire-retardant foam pipe insulation is available for about £2.50/metre.

 

http://www.pipelagging.com/28mm-pipe-insulation-slit-19mm-wall-class-armaflex-selfseal-black-foam-lagging-p-676.html

 

But remember that insulation only reduces heat transfer across a temperature differential and does not stop it. Without energy input to maintain a temperature differential, eventually the "hot" pipe will reach equilibruim with the ambient temperature.

Edited July 14, 2012 by blackrose

[Monkey 1]

Thanks all, My mind is more at rest. I'll just keep an eye on temps & deal with it as & when. My main concern was the raw water tank & Inlet pipe/valve splitting & sinking the boat! Maybe keeping a pot of water in the engine bay will give me an idea when the raw water is about to freeze, as Mike said, It shouldn't be too often.

[bizzard]

Who wants all that old rubbish in their engine space?

 

Good quality, fire-retardant foam pipe insulation is available for about £2.50/metre.

 

http://www.pipelagging.com/28mm-pipe-insulation-slit-19mm-wall-class-armaflex-selfseal-black-foam-lagging-p-676.html

 

But remember that insulation only reduces heat transfer across a temperature differential and does not stop it. Without energy input to maintain a temperature differential, eventually the "hot" pipe will reach equilibruim with the ambient temperature.

You always want to keep buying things Mike . However this idea might be best. A trip to the chemist and purchase a tube of ''DEEP HEAT'' the achy joint and rheumatism ointment that penetrates and warms things up. This could be smeared all over the pipe work and then thatched over with straw and bound up. It did ease my finger joints in the winter,but i found the straw a bit itchy and my fingers a bit restricted of movement and had difficulty getting my wallet out in the £1 shop on my weekly shopping spree in town.

Edited July 14, 2012 by bizzard

[blackrose]

You always want to keep buying things Mike

 

I know, but I'd rather my boat (and my home), didn't appear to be inhabited by members of the lower orders.

Edited July 14, 2012 by blackrose

[Monkey 1]

We are coming out of winter now so I thought I'd update everybody how it went! It's been a very easy winter really, not much hard frost, more damp & muddy. As we thought, power usage went up & we have had to run the engine almost daily for a couple of hours. I fitted a remote temperature guage to monitor the engine bilge temps & even through the coldest nights it never dropped bellow 2 or 3 degrees. So in answer to my original query, yes you can live aboard a raw cooled boat through winter

 

 

Thank you for your help & advice

 

 

[Naughty Cal]

We leave heaters in our engine bay to protect the raw water cooling side of our system. We also leave oil filled rads in the cabin to keep the temperature up. This winter the engine bay has not dropped below 8 degrees and the cabin 10 degrees. We dont liveaboard but do use the boat every weekend so keeping it heated during the week means it takes less time to warm through at the weekend.

 

Not had a problem with it yet in the last five winters. Hopefully it will be time to remove the heaters soon.

[Athy]

We are coming out of winter now.

 

HA! Frost here last night, possible snow tomorrow.

 

It's been a very easy winter really, not much hard frost.

Which country do you live in? I'd like to know so that I can spend next winter there.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Athy

[Naughty Cal]

HA! Frost here last night, possible snow tomorrow.

 

 

Which country do you live in? I'd like to know so that I can spend next winter there.

 

To be fair it hasnt been a bad winter for the cold. It has just been bloody wet

[Monkey 1]

I'm in the midlands! There's been very little ice & it never Hung around for more than a couple of days on & off. The bit we did have wasn't that thick to stop us moving if we wanted to. We did cruise through some lovely snow but that didn't hang around long either. It has been rather wet though, mud mud & more mud!

Edited March 20, 2013 by Monkey 1