GPS

[Mimi]

Hi there, I am new to this forum but not so new to the canal world. My other half has a question. Has anyone any experience with using a GPS system.. something like Tom Tom on the canals. I know that there is a canal planner buy never heard of anyone using GPS. (can you tell he is in the Merchant Navy )

[Moley]

Hi Mimi, and welcome to the forum.

 

Sorry, never used one myself, car or canal, but there are plenty of folks here who do. Stick around, your question will be answered.

 

Something that's puzzled me before though:

Daniel - there have been plenty of threads about GPS but how do you find 'em when ‘Search’ won't let you look for something that's only 3 characters, or Jon, can that be changed?

[alan_fincher]

I'm sure others will have quite a bit to say on this, as I've seen frequent reference to them used afloat.

 

But as you specifically mention Tom Tom, and I have had an early model Tom Tom Go onboard, I can tell you that (in the elderly software version I have, at least), they are programmed to try and always show you on a road if they can.

 

So if you have a road beside a canal, (or even crossing it), then the 'Go' will try and compensate, and say "seeing as you are driving, I'll put you on the road, not in the middle of the water next door".....

 

I don't know if this behaviour can be disabled, so the device just shows you as where it actually thinks it is, rather than where a nearby road is ?

 

Obviously a GPS designed to link to a map, as used by (say) walkers, would not suffer this, and I think would be a better option on a canal......

 

I'm interested what people have had any success with. I believe some people use them as fairly accurate speedometers ?

 

Alan

[TeeELL]

Mimi,

I use an iPaq PDA with GPS function running MemoryMap software. I have digitised the contents of 2006 editions of a well known Canal Guide and, after calibrating and scaling them, use that option for cruising. Is it useful? Well, at 3mph it is hardly vital but there is an amusement value and it makes it easy to decide if there is time for a cuppa before the next lock. The speed function is all well and good but, as I don't have to worry about keeping the schedules whilst cruising, it tends to hover around 2.6mph. I also select the CAA aviation maps and use exactly the same iPag to assist with navigating when I am flying at 400mph!! (Much more useable/useful)

[NB Willawaw]

We use a Magellan hand held for accurate speed over ground and more importantly to us, distance run.

Sometimes we link it to the laptop which displays Memory Map Ordnance Survey Maps or when we do estuarial passages, ARCS Raster Charts from the British Admiralty. If he is the Merchant Navy, he will definitely know those.

 

To be honest, on the canal, the maps are a bit of a toy. The charts are very useful on estuaries.

 

The main advantage of GPS for us, is that it gives us an accurate distance run because we keep a log and like to keep statistics like that.

 

Mark

[dor]

Let's face it, GPS on the canals is just a toy. And that's assuming you can justify it in a car.

 

Most of the GPS systems you see advertised now are Tomtom types, which are geared to showing you a map of roads and keeping you on them.

 

However there are others geared more to leisure pursuits rather than route-finding, and these are much more useful.

 

I've got a Garmin with Mapsource software and a PDA with Navman. The latter is typical car type and little use on the canal.

 

The former however is quite informative (I nearly said useful). You can select "stick to roads" which when switched off won't try and hold you on a road. It has canals and rivers on it, and will indicate speed to 0.1 mph. It will also log the route taken which can be downloaded onto a PC and superimposed on a map, or read in a spreadsheet.

 

Accuracy is usually about 10 metres, but can be down to 5. Vertical accuracy is poor and drifts a lot.

 

Although I've not tried it, I believe you can import the log into google Earth. Also the freebie canal planner does something clever with it as well.

 

My Garmin is an "eMap", which lets you download maps from Mapsource via a PC. garmin also do others ("Etrex" comes to mind) which are marketed at walkers which are cheaper, but may not have the same degree of detail on the maps.

 

GPS is still prone to drift, although this is nothing like it used to be. It is possible to get accuracy down to a few centimeters, but ot get this you either need to work for the US military, or have a radio link with a fixed based station which will then allow you to negate the artificially induced drift.

 

Have I found it useful? Well, it let me calibrate my rev counter, so I have a pretty good idea of my speed through the water based on engine speed (about 1mph per 500 rpm). It is useful as well if you go for a walk away from the canal so you don't get lost (and I've got lost before now!).

 

And what the hell, I just like gadgets.

[DHutch]

Let's face it, GPS on the canals is just a toy. And that's assuming you can justify it in a car.

- And what the hell, I just like gadgets.

Yeah, its very true that it would be far more for the fun than acctall usefullness!

- Ive never heard of anyone acctally geting 'lost' on a canal, lol, not even in the center of birminingham!!

 

 

 

Something that's puzzled me before though:

Daniel - there have been plenty of threads about GPS but how do you find 'em when ‘Search’ won't let you look for something that's only 3 characters, or Jon, can that be changed?

Yeah, its can be a little annoying (i mentioned this on the MDF thread, simular problem)

 

What i do is use google (the god that is)

- It has special feature where it will search just one site, or part of a site.

- Just type in < GPS site:http://www.canalworld.net/forums > and i think you will find it works quite well.

 

http://www.google.com/search?q=GPS+site:ht...orld.net/forums

 

 

Daniel

[Pirate]

Well I know someone whos just had a boat built and he reckons he`s having a Navman fitted at £800 (supllied by the fitter) which will show all the canals and locks ect ect, I`ve done a search on Navman and cant find any such programs for it. So I dont know if it`s Bull s£$t or what.

 

I reckon in the car they are brilliant but on the canals, even if they do do them, it would be a waste of money.

[Moley]

Google .. has special feature where it will search just one site, or part of a site.

- Just type in < GPS site:http://www.canalworld.net/forums > and i think you will find it works quite well.

Thanks for that, didn't realise you could do site-specific searches.

 

Thing is, we use so many 3-letter words and abbreviations (GPS, BSS, RCD, MDF, BMC etc.) that it's not the first time it's puzzled me.

 

[denboy]

mine comes in handy as it will tell me the location of the nearest pub handy when you are new to an area

[Supermalc]

I treated myself to an Etrex Legend out of my 'boating fund'. It is only a 'toy' but a useful one. Stupidly I lost it when I left it on the cabin roof after shutting the canopy (the first expensive thing I've ever lost).

 

On a boat I would still recommend a hand held one, as it can also be used to mark location of the boat when returning in unknown destinations (from the pub maybe)

 

As laptops are now relatively cheap and common, they can be linked to these for larger displays etc. Although if you are going on the 'high seas' a chartplotter is now the preferred option.

Edited June 21, 2006 by Supermalc

[NB Willawaw]

Well done Daniel. Thats very useful.

Ive saved that on my notepad under 'My Controls'

 

Mark

 

 

 

What i do is use google

- It has special feature where it will search just one site, or part of a site.

- Just type in < GPS site:http://www.canalworld.net/forums > and i think you will find it works quite well.

 

http://www.google.com/search?q=GPS+site:ht...orld.net/forums

Daniel

[rog guiver]

Portishead to Sharpness, sat my wife at the bow with the GPS and the egg timer with instructions to note GPS position/ speed every fifteen minutes.

 

I was at the stern with the Pilot, but thought it would be interesting to plot the achieved route once we got home.

 

Out of interest the max achieved speed was 14.1 mph!

[NB Willawaw]

We use an inexpensive charting programme called Memory Map which allows the GPS to plot the track automatically on the chart, which is displayed on a normal laptop computer.

For the Severn, we used their British Admiralty ARCS chart.

 

Portishead to Sharpness, sat my wife at the bow with the GPS and the egg timer with instructions to note GPS position/ speed every fifteen minutes.

 

I was at the stern with the Pilot, but thought it would be interesting to plot the achieved route once we got home.

 

Out of interest the max achieved speed was 14.1 mph!

[blackrose]

I wouldn't have thought that getting lost or not knowing where you are was too much of a problem on the inland waterways? I like having a few buttons & gadgets on my boat, & for sailing boats & barges doing coastal cruising I can see the usefulness of GPS, but not for rivers & canals surely? It's either one way or the other!

Edited October 9, 2006 by blackrose

[John Orentas]

I seem to get by most of the time with a Sextant and watching the way the geese fly.

 

The first directions to the new world were "Head South until the butter melts and turn right".

[salmiron]

I seem to get by most of the time with a Sextant ".

 

I always thought a sextant was the man in black who dug your grave and tolled the bell as you made your last journey down the cut. Hence the expression "Shoot the sextant".

[dor]

I think you are thinking of a sexton

[tony collins]

Hi there, I am new to this forum but not so new to the canal world. My other half has a question. Has anyone any experience with using a GPS system.. something like Tom Tom on the canals. I know that there is a canal planner buy never heard of anyone using GPS. (can you tell he is in the Merchant Navy )

 

To get back to the original question, I know that Allie (& Bill) are using a GPS as they cruise the Leicester Ring. I know this because we travelled in convoy with them for a few hours and Bill was able to tell me to one decimal point our speed over the ground at any point on the journey. So I suggest you watch out for their cruise diary or even PM them in about 10 days time.

 

Tony

[stuart]

.....able to tell me to one decimal point our speed over the ground at any point on the journey. So I suggest you watch out for their cruise diary or even PM them in about 10 days time.

 

I'm looking into building a cruise website for people to record their diary's. Sort of a cross between an Internet blog and a diary but aimed at canal users. I'm also thinking of allowing uploads of GPS data so the blog will automatically have your route and you fill in the diary with comments on your destinations etc.

 

This route information could then be used as part of a route planner but to give actual speeds through locks, rivers etc. based on actual/average real information.

 

I'm also thinking of creating some sort of buddy list which will let you know when your friends are near by or your likely to meet them while cruising.

[TeeELL]

Stuart,

you plan sounds great. I for one will sign up to it, having just been trying to sort out which photos matched which events in my cruise diary. Unfortunately my iPaq wasn't set up properly and I couldn't use it, even though I had loaded all the large scale canal guide maps.

[grunders]

Accuracy is usually about 10 metres, but can be down to 5. Vertical accuracy is poor and drifts a lot.

 

 

 

You've got to love the vertical accuracy of a GPS: You're chugging along this flat piece of water and apparently you're actually going uphill....oh,no, wait a minute...downhill!

 

Oh well, the rest of the features are useful.

[Graham and Jo]

You've got to love the vertical accuracy of a GPS: You're chugging along this flat piece of water and apparently you're actually going uphill....oh,no, wait a minute...downhill!

 

Oh well, the rest of the features are useful.

Beware of chugging south, the world is an oblate spheroid so a canal going south actually moves away from the centre of the earth. Arguably the Missisipi river has its mouth higher than its source. I guess GPS copes with that although I've noticed mine puts me a couple of hundred feet up at sea level!

[TUTORDAN]

Hi there, I am new to this forum but not so new to the canal world. My other half has a question. Has anyone any experience with using a GPS system.. something like Tom Tom on the canals. I know that there is a canal planner buy never heard of anyone using GPS. (can you tell he is in the Merchant Navy )

 

I have a lot of experience of maritime GPS. The short answer to your question is.............if you or your erstwhile crew think you need GPS in the canals .......you most certainly have a problem with you navigation skills! I know it is useful at sea (and in rivers) and that it can help drivers who can't plan their routes but if you think that you are in any danger of vaulting over the canal bank in your boat - then it's time to invest. Please let me now how you get on?

[TeeELL]

I've just been reading through this thread again - and I can certainly remember when the option of a GPS would have helped. Daniel mentions the 'lack of need of a GPS even in the middle of Birmingham' but I can assure you that back in 1976ish I ended up in a 'dead end' that seemed , at the time, to be the correct route to follow. I'm not sure but I believe that it may have been what is now the 'Post Box'? Then a disused wharf heavily silted and surrounded by dereliction , now a vibrant area of wine bars and restaurants. I recall finally escaping the grip of the sily and passing through a very smokey area of old working boats etc. Sorry no photos though!!