Help! Toilet backing up

[camboater]

I discovered this forum yesterday and got some very helpful feedback about buying a boat with a wooden top.

 

By chance, a friend of mine had an unpleasant boating emergency last night. He lives on a Dutch barge. It has a built-in toilet tank in the base. He has one toilet running into it which has a macerator. It has worked OK for several months. It was pumped out recently. But after that the toilet has gradually backed up and overflowed. It can't possibly be full up again yet.

 

My thinking is that it should have a vent from the top of the tank for the air to get in and out, but as there's not one built in he doesn't think that can be the problem. It has an outlet to pump out from either side of the boat. Both filler caps have been left loose so that air can go through them. The macerator toilet is T-ed into one of the pump-out pipes.

 

Could it be a build up of gas from waste that isn't flowing through? Any ideas I can pass on would (as you can imagine) be very welcome.

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

It can't possibly be full up again yet.

 

<snip>

 

Why? Our dump-through pump-outs will fill very quickly if the water is left running into them

 

Richard

[mrsmelly]

I discovered this forum yesterday and got some very helpful feedback about buying a boat with a wooden top.

 

By chance, a friend of mine had an unpleasant boating emergency last night. He lives on a Dutch barge. It has a built-in toilet tank in the base. He has one toilet running into it which has a macerator. It has worked OK for several months. It was pumped out recently. But after that the toilet has gradually backed up and overflowed. It can't possibly be full up again yet.

 

My thinking is that it should have a vent from the top of the tank for the air to get in and out, but as there's not one built in he doesn't think that can be the problem. It has an outlet to pump out from either side of the boat. Both filler caps have been left loose so that air can go through them. The macerator toilet is T-ed into one of the pump-out pipes.

 

Could it be a build up of gas from waste that isn't flowing through? Any ideas I can pass on would (as you can imagine) be very welcome.

 

 

Ive just got to pop and empty my cassette....be back in 30 seconds to help with the answer

 

Tim

[Paringa]

Some barges have a divert that puts grey water into the holding tank to comply with local regs. Obviously if the shower does pump over the side then that won't be it...!

 

But if the toilet is backing up then either the tank is full - with what is the worry if you are certain it is not toilet waste - Or you have a blockage. Try a pump out again to see.

 

I don't believe there isn't a vent pipe somewhere - but happy to be proved wrong.

 

Good luck

[Grace and Favour]

I discovered this forum yesterday and got some very helpful feedback about buying a boat with a wooden top.

 

By chance, a friend of mine had an unpleasant boating emergency last night. He lives on a Dutch barge. It has a built-in toilet tank in the base. He has one toilet running into it which has a macerator. It has worked OK for several months. It was pumped out recently. But after that the toilet has gradually backed up and overflowed. It can't possibly be full up again yet.

 

My thinking is that it should have a vent from the top of the tank for the air to get in and out, but as there's not one built in he doesn't think that can be the problem. It has an outlet to pump out from either side of the boat. Both filler caps have been left loose so that air can go through them. The macerator toilet is T-ed into one of the pump-out pipes.

 

Could it be a build up of gas from waste that isn't flowing through? Any ideas I can pass on would (as you can imagine) be very welcome.

 

How old is the boat, and has this happened previously?

[camboater]

Thanks for the responses. To answer the various questions:

 

The boat is only a few years old and has only been lived on for six months or so.

 

The grey water definitely doesn't go though to the tank.

 

The problem hasn't happened before but he has left it late to pump out in the past so it has overfilled.

 

It's happened within a couple of days of pumping out, and there's no water left running into it (whereas he used to be able to leave it for weeks between pumpouts).

 

Maybe there is a vent pipe somewhere (as Paringa said, hard to believe there wouldn't be one) but it has got blocked in the past when it has overfilled, and that's why there's a problem now.

 

"Ive just got to pop and empty my cassette....be back in 30 seconds to help with the answer" - very amusing (don't think I'll get a smile from him at the moment, though!). I will feel similarly smug when I get my boat.

Edited May 28, 2012 by camboater

[jonathanA]

'Teed into pumpout' - seems inadvisable for a macerator as I would assume any attempt to pumpout would empty the toilet and suck air through...

 

I'd very surpised if there wasn't a vent somewhere probably a small pipe to a hull fitting.

 

I assume the toilet is making all the right noises when operated but doesn't empty properly and nothing untoward has been put down it such as cloth wipes/nappies etc...

 

I think your friend needs to start with another pumpout but I'd make sure to use the side without the toilet 'teed in' and of course to ensure the other outlet has its cap fitted.

 

worth checking to see if he can access the actual tank - might be able to tell if its full/empty by knocking on it, or there might be a inspection hole. on our boat we found a sensor fitted to the tank but not connected that (now) lights a warning light as the tank approaches full.

[RichardH]

Either the tank is full or the non return valve or feed pipe isn't working properly and effluent isn't completely making its way to the tank.

 

If the tank is full and was successfully pumped out then chances are something like the solenoid which sends fresh water to the pan is sticking and filling the tank up prematurely. Your friend will soon know as the pump out will look much cleared than normal through the glass on the nozzle.

[George94]

Some barges have a divert that puts grey water into the holding tank to comply with local regs. Obviously if the shower does pump over the side then that won't be it...!

 

But if the toilet is backing up then either the tank is full - with what is the worry if you are certain it is not toilet waste - Or you have a blockage. Try a pump out again to see.

 

I don't believe there isn't a vent pipe somewhere - but happy to be proved wrong.

 

Good luck

 

There must be a vent pipe. If not, it will explode with most unpleasant consequences for all concerned, including neighbours.

[twbm]

My instincts are there is no solution to this that won't involve rubber gloves and wellies.

[George94]

Watch the tank when you pump it out. If the vent is blocked (there is definitely a vent!), then the tank will bow inwards as a vacuum will be created. This might have the effect of clearing the blocked vent. Of course, if the tank is plastic, or madly made, the vacuum could do serious damage, so be careful.

 

I suspect either a blocked vent or a faulty macerator. The thing may be whirring away, but doing nothing.

[DeanS]

Ive just got to pop and empty my cassette....be back in 30 seconds to help with the answer

 

Tim

 

 

:lol:

[RLWP]

:lol:

 

He's not back yet. Probably got a hernia lugging his cassettes about

 

Richard

[Ark Right]

All very humorous you lot, unless you are of course the OP's friend in need of some constructive advice.

 

The problem without a doubt is that the toilet is connected incorrectly. The OP suggests it is connected to the pump out line via a tee. This is wrong. It should have its own connection to the top of the tank.

The pump out connection on a waste tank has a dip pipe that goes almost to the bottom of the tank. The way the toilet is connected the waste has to pass through the small gap between the dip pipe and the bottom of the tank and this can easily become blocked.

 

A pump out with lots of reverse flushing down the pump out fitting will hopefully clear the problem. the only way to prevent re-occurrence will be to modify the toiletr discharge pipework.

 

A

[twbm]

All very humorous you lot, unless you are of course the OP's friend in need of some constructive advice.

 

The problem without a doubt is that the toilet is connected incorrectly. The OP suggests it is connected to the pump out line via a tee. This is wrong. It should have its own connection to the top of the tank.

The pump out connection on a waste tank has a dip pipe that goes almost to the bottom of the tank. The way the toilet is connected the waste has to pass through the small gap between the dip pipe and the bottom of the tank and this can easily become blocked.

 

A pump out with lots of reverse flushing down the pump out fitting will hopefully clear the problem. the only way to prevent re-occurrence will be to modify the toiletr discharge pipework.

 

A

 

You're right, but as it's already overflowing backflushing is going to add to the problem before it clears it. See above re wellies. The piss taking comes as part of the package on this forum. (The issue here of course being piss not being taken).

[ditchcrawler]

All very humorous you lot, unless you are of course the OP's friend in need of some constructive advice.

 

The problem without a doubt is that the toilet is connected incorrectly. The OP suggests it is connected to the pump out line via a tee. This is wrong. It should have its own connection to the top of the tank.

The pump out connection on a waste tank has a dip pipe that goes almost to the bottom of the tank. The way the toilet is connected the waste has to pass through the small gap between the dip pipe and the bottom of the tank and this can easily become blocked.

 

A pump out with lots of reverse flushing down the pump out fitting will hopefully clear the problem. the only way to prevent re-occurrence will be to modify the toiletr discharge pipework.

 

A

What are the possibilities of a valve below the tee so that when at sea, it's a barge, it can pump straight overboard.which may have got closed.

[Grace and Favour]

What are the possibilities of a valve below the tee so that when at sea, it's a barge, it can pump straight overboard.which may have got closed.

 

Good point - - - - ours has a sea-toilet set-up, so we can discharge through the hull, (we're saving the inaugural spraying until we pass a mate with a maroon widebeam)

[jonathanA]

Good point - - - - ours has a sea-toilet set-up, so we can discharge through the hull, (we're saving the inaugural spraying until we pass a mate with a maroon widebeam)

 

err wouldn't the valve have to have a closed to both tank AND hull outlet for the op's friend to be suffering the symptoms described.... having no knowledge of these valves its seems more likley that it would be one position or the other rather than have a mid 'all off' position.

 

I'll bow to others with more knowledge / experience of these matters of course...

[ditchcrawler]

Been thinking a bit more. What do you mean by backing up. Back in the pan, so the maccarator is not pump it to the tank. Or back up the pump out hole which he said is lose?

[mrsmelly]

Good point - - - - ours has a sea-toilet set-up, so we can discharge through the hull, (we're saving the inaugural spraying until we pass a mate with a maroon widebeam)

 

:P

[jonathanA]

:P

could also be a good solution to anti social behaviour - spraying stone throwing youths in this way would make it easy for Plod to identify them.... :-)

[keble]

Ive just got to pop and empty my cassette....be back in 30 seconds to help with the answer

 

Tim

It is possible to have a back-up situation with cassettes.

Don't ask me how I know ...

[Carl Heads]

at work we had a blocked macerator. If you look behind the pan you will find an anti syphon valve;make sure this is not blocked .

[BlueStringPudding]

He's not back yet. Probably got a hernia lugging his cassettes about

 

Richard

 

 

I discovered this forum yesterday and got some very helpful feedback about buying a boat with a wooden top.

 

By chance, a friend of mine had an unpleasant boating emergency last night. He lives on a Dutch barge. It has a built-in toilet tank in the base. He has one toilet running into it which has a macerator. It has worked OK for several months. It was pumped out recently. But after that the toilet has gradually backed up and overflowed. It can't possibly be full up again yet.

 

My thinking is that it should have a vent from the top of the tank for the air to get in and out, but as there's not one built in he doesn't think that can be the problem. It has an outlet to pump out from either side of the boat. Both filler caps have been left loose so that air can go through them. The macerator toilet is T-ed into one of the pump-out pipes.

 

Could it be a build up of gas from waste that isn't flowing through? Any ideas I can pass on would (as you can imagine) be very welcome.

 

Mine does this but only when the tank is completely full. I believe it is caused by knackered seals / valve so that once the kakkapoopoo puts pressure on it, it flows back into the bowl. As the tank is under th bed, if it happens in the night I can hear faint bloop bloop sounds as it very slowly starts backing into the loo bowl. However my tank is so ruddy huge it only very occasionally catches me out and backs up before I'm aware it'll soon need emptying.

 

You mention two filler caps. Only one of mine ever has anything in it to pump out. The other, so I've heard, is an overflow for the main tank. Not sure if thats true but i cant imagine what else its for. If it is, it's never worked before the toilet backs up! So not functioning particularly well as an overflow. I'm wondering whether your mate has pumped out the overflow but not the main tank fully?

 

Also, how big is the tank? Mine is unusually large being the same width, length and depth as the double bed. However a lot of tanks, although often fitted under the bed, can be long a narrow and only last a short while between our pumpouts, especially if the flush uses a lot of water.

Edited May 28, 2012 by BlueStringPudding

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

.

 

You mention two filler caps. Only one of mine ever has anything in it to pump out. The other, so I've heard, is an overflow for the main tank. Not sure if thats true but i cant imagine what else its for. If it is, it's never worked before the toilet backs up! So not functioning particularly well as an overflow. I'm wondering whether your mate has pumped out the overflow but not the main tank fully?

 

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