Paloma

[magpie patrick]

Not exactly the latest in equipment, which is waht this section claims to be about, biut could do with suggestions

 

In October I took our Paloma PH5-3F (Mark V) heater off to avoid it freezing, as it did the previous winter. However, it is, to put it bluntly, not very good, and while I intend to reinstall it, the only value in doing this is that we can use the rest of the water and gas system as without the heater in place the water and gas feeds to it will flood the boat with both enough water to sink it and enough gas to blow it up. I suppose one could consider this a fortunate combination.

 

I'd like to replace it, but what with...?

[Titus]

Not exactly the latest in equipment, which is waht this section claims to be about, biut could do with suggestions

 

In October I took our Paloma PH5-3F (Mark V) heater off to avoid it freezing, as it did the previous winter. However, it is, to put it bluntly, not very good, and while I intend to reinstall it, the only value in doing this is that we can use the rest of the water and gas system as without the heater in place the water and gas feeds to it will flood the boat with both enough water to sink it and enough gas to blow it up. I suppose one could consider this a fortunate combination.

 

I'd like to replace it, but what with...?

 

I looked round for something to replace the Paloma on our old Springer but couldn't find anything, I'm a bit surprised that you removed the paloma, all I did (for the past 7 years) was to turn the water off to the heater and then remove the drain screw and make sure all the water was out, even in the winter of 2010/11 we didn't have any problems, we sold the boat last autumn and the Paloma was still going strong.

 

Dave

[magpie patrick]

I looked round for something to replace the Paloma on our old Springer but couldn't find anything, I'm a bit surprised that you removed the paloma, all I did (for the past 7 years) was to turn the water off to the heater and then remove the drain screw and make sure all the water was out, even in the winter of 2010/11 we didn't have any problems, we sold the boat last autumn and the Paloma was still going strong.

 

Dave

 

Thanks, although that doesn't really get me anywhere

 

Ours turned into a fountain over winter 2010/11 and was repaired by a qualified gas technician who said "it's okay for a caravan" (Carlt has since pointed out that they are allowed on boats, the gas technician said they weren't, but knew full well it was going to be refitted on one).

 

However, whilst it "works" it won't stay on long enough for a shower, and needs to be replaced, especially as we plan two weeks aboard (or more, the more we get frustrated, the greater our plans) this summer...

 

Given how limited Juno's gas needs are, we only turn the gas on when we need to use it, for cooking or the water heater.

Edited April 3, 2012 by magpie patrick

[bizzard]

Thanks, although that doesn't really get me anywhere

 

Ours turned into a fountain over winter 2010/11 and was repaired by a qualified gas technician who said "it's okay for a caravan" (Carlt has since pointed out that they are allowed on boats, the gas technician said they weren't, but knew full well it was going to be refitted on one).

 

However, whilst it "works" it won't stay on long enough for a shower, and needs to be replaced, especially as we plan two weeks aboard (or more, the more we get frustrated, the greater our plans) this summer...

 

Given how limited Juno's gas needs are, we only turn the gas on when we need to use it, for cooking or the water heater.

Sounds the flow of water through it is not great enough when you use the shower.Is the showerhead holes clean and clear of limescale. You could easily fit a slightly larger shower head with a greater flow.

[PaulJ]

Maybe in need of a service or repair? If it is not staying on long enough to shower could it be either overheating due to a lack of water flow or shutting down due to lack of water pressure?

Edited April 3, 2012 by PaulJ

[magpie patrick]

Those last two would explain a lot, like it working when tested but not working properly when needed.

 

Thanks, we'll give it a go

[PaulJ]

Hope it works for you because your replacement options are-

Expensive

or

Very Expensive

[bizzard]

There are a few other replacements for the Paloma. Morco and Vaailant are longer and narrower and the Rinnai which is wider and a similar shape to the Paloma.Don't lose that drain plug on that Paloma,they are gold dust, as it doubles as a safety valve and the heater won't work at all with any other plug.

[blackrose]

Not exactly the latest in equipment, which is waht this section claims to be about, biut could do with suggestions

 

In October I took our Paloma PH5-3F (Mark V) heater off to avoid it freezing, as it did the previous winter. However, it is, to put it bluntly, not very good, and while I intend to reinstall it, the only value in doing this is that we can use the rest of the water and gas system as without the heater in place the water and gas feeds to it will flood the boat with both enough water to sink it and enough gas to blow it up. I suppose one could consider this a fortunate combination.

 

I'd like to replace it, but what with...?

 

It sounds like you could do with putting in a gas and a water isolator too!

[bizzard]

It sounds like you could do with putting in a gas and a water isolator too!

It should have a gas isolation shut off cock nearby on the feed pipe,a BSS requirement.

[OldGoldy]

Not exactly the latest in equipment, which is waht this section claims to be about, biut could do with suggestions

 

snip

 

I'd like to replace it, but what with...?

 

On eBay in order of price (at the moment) The last one (at £105), is a Refurb PX. Items 170817996249, 280857016086, 170817957708, 320861344723

[magpie patrick]

It should have a gas isolation shut off cock nearby on the feed pipe,a BSS requirement.

 

No comment, the last BSS was not in our ownership Let's just say that I have considered replacing the lot, gas, electric and water, but the cabin fittings are slightly too good for me to just causally rip 'em all out

 

It has now occurred to me that a lot of this may be down to the engine that is about to be replaced. It wouldn't reliably push the boat, it wouldn't reliably charge the batteries (we ended up borrowing a battery charger in Bristol Docks): flat batteries, low water pressure?

[PaulJ]

Possibly.Its good place to start anyhow. Do you get a good flow from any of the cold taps?

[magpie patrick]

Possibly.Its good place to start anyhow. Do you get a good flow from any of the cold taps?

 

Only one cold tap, and no...

 

Juno is not a sophisticated boat, having a shower was probably riches beyond the dreams of avarice when she was built. She has a hot and cold tap at the kitchen sink, and a shower in the loo cupboard.

 

She has all of three domestic lights, and being singularly advanced, has a car type cigarette lighter to charge the mobile phone.

 

This isn't a whinge, this is why we love her...

[bizzard]

No comment, the last BSS was not in our ownership Let's just say that I have considered replacing the lot, gas, electric and water, but the cabin fittings are slightly too good for me to just causally rip 'em all out

 

It has now occurred to me that a lot of this may be down to the engine that is about to be replaced. It wouldn't reliably push the boat, it wouldn't reliably charge the batteries (we ended up borrowing a battery charger in Bristol Docks): flat batteries, low water pressure?

The Paloma works from a pressure as low as 0.3bar to a maximum of 10bar.

[PaulJ]

Ive only got one too and me hot water hasnt been working long either .Is the pump something like a Shurflo then? ie its a diaphragm type pump and not an impellor type?

Has it ever worked properly?

Edited April 3, 2012 by PaulJ

[bizzard]

Ive only got one too and me hot water hasnt been working long either .Is the pump something like a Shurflo then? ie its a diaphragm type pump and not an impellor type?

i've found that the Surflo Aquaking pumps are not happy running small low water flow volume showers, especially funnily enough with a pressure regulator vessel,they seem to run better without

In fact they seem much happier with larger flow full size domestic taps,showers ect rather than the smaller caravan variety.

Edited April 3, 2012 by bizzard

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

Thanks, although that doesn't really get me anywhere

 

Ours turned into a fountain over winter 2010/11 and was repaired by a qualified gas technician who said "it's okay for a caravan" (Carlt has since pointed out that they are allowed on boats, the gas technician said they weren't, but knew full well it was going to be refitted on one).

 

However, whilst it "works" it won't stay on long enough for a shower, and needs to be replaced, especially as we plan two weeks aboard (or more, the more we get frustrated, the greater our plans) this summer...

 

Given how limited Juno's gas needs are, we only turn the gas on when we need to use it, for cooking or the water heater.

Three things 1: turn the temperature on the heater down and then you do not have to use a mixer tap and get a better flow through the heater. 2: there is a temperature sensor on the outlet flue which can turn off the gas if the flue gets too hot. 3: For the last 25 years we have just drained the heater in the winter and have had no problems even though there has been 6 inches of ice when we have returned to the boat after 2 weeks.

[BEngo]

Not exactly the latest in equipment, which is waht this section claims to be about, biut could do with suggestions

 

In October I took our Paloma PH5-3F (Mark V) heater off to avoid it freezing, as it did the previous winter. However, it is, to put it bluntly, not very good, and while I intend to reinstall it, the only value in doing this is that we can use the rest of the water and gas system as without the heater in place the water and gas feeds to it will flood the boat with both enough water to sink it and enough gas to blow it up. I suppose one could consider this a fortunate combination.

 

I'd like to replace it, but what with...?

 

 

 

Before you re-fit it, give it a descale.

 

Turn upside down, select 1 on water temperature and fill with good cold descaling fluid- Attaka is my fave, but anything sold in a hard water area will do. Brick cleaner is OK at a pinch. Pour the descaler in to the supply pipe until it comes from the outlet pipe. Leave overnighht or until the bubbles stop. Repeat as required.

 

N

[Paloma Bob]

Hi all, For what its worth if the Paloma in question is a PH-5-3F then it will not have a sensor fitted to the draught diverter and will operate with a bolt in place of the drain/pressure relief valve [not recommended though]. Most although not all Paloma PH-5LFE's were fitted with the sensor but they do require the correct drain valve to work correctly.

Hope this is of some help and forgive me as this is my first post.

[bizzard]

Hi all, For what its worth if the Paloma in question is a PH-5-3F then it will not have a sensor fitted to the draught diverter and will operate with a bolt in place of the drain/pressure relief valve [not recommended though]. Most although not all Paloma PH-5LFE's were fitted with the sensor but they do require the correct drain valve to work correctly.

Hope this is of some help and forgive me as this is my first post.

My Paloma PH-5LFE and the few others i've come across all had the flu sensor and safety valve drain plug.

The PH-5-3F i think is the older model?,the one with the two large knobs,and much nicer looking in my opinion.

[Paloma Bob]

Yes, most of the LFE's do have sensors but I believe the early ones were available without the draught diverters and I have a LFE draught diverter without the slot for the sensor to fit in to.They also have a shorter connecter on the Mag valve with no room to take the wires for the sensor.

The PH-5-3F are the older model although there was a cross over period and I agree they are better looking,better made and easier to repair !

[bizzard]

Yes, most of the LFE's do have sensors but I believe the early ones were available without the draught diverters and I have a LFE draught diverter without the slot for the sensor to fit in to.They also have a shorter connecter on the Mag valve with no room to take the wires for the sensor.

The PH-5-3F are the older model although there was a cross over period and I agree they are better looking,better made and easier to repair !

Its a shame they're not made at all anymore as in my opinion they were the best I,G.H.W.H of the lot. Mine has worked faultlessly with a bit of maintenance for 13 years.

[alan_fincher]

It sounds like you could do with putting in a gas and a water isolator too!

 

It should have a gas isolation shut off cock nearby on the feed pipe,a BSS requirement.

 

Not sure that's right is it.

 

Seem to recall individual isolator valves only required if the connection is by a flexible hose, but happy to be corrected if my memory is wrong.

[Paloma Bob]

Frost is by far the biggest killer of them all, but the LFE can also suffer from damage to the sensitive push button ignition but a far worse problem is oxidization to the alloy bore in which the activating rod passes back and forth. I have seen many where the rod has opened up the gas valve but has become stuck and fails to return to shut the burners off. This is when you find out how good the sensor is ! Sorry I don't understand the abbreviation G.H.W.H