Guide to Buying a Historic Narrowboat

[GSer]

Paul

 

I did not know that your motor was an old boat sorry..

 

Steve

 

 

Apache isn't an old boat by anybodies standards, so i guess i would need to leave it elsewhere and punt cygnus to braunston

[Liam]

It's not a Josher, looks LMS to me.

[Speedwheel]

Fancy going halves?

 

Hard to imagine another real josher ever coming to market for just £35k.... No doubt someone will be along to tell me it isn't a josher now, such is my limited knowledge

 

Only if I can have the front half.

 

It isn't a josher. Front end of a station boat I think.

 

Well I could almost have been persuaded to sell Reginald to buy Tebay,

 

Reginald any day if it was my money.

[alan_fincher]

Really? I've always thought it was horrible. I think the cabin looks all wrong and with far to much upward sweep at the back. As a result the rams head is far to high. New cabin and rams head and it would be a nice boat.

Yes, accepted!

 

It's the Station boat shape that kind of appeals, and works for me with the long tug deck. I wasn't looking so much at the back cabin, although as there was (I believe!) no such thing as a "motor" Station boat, I suppose you can't really define "right" or "wrong".

 

Are you aware the Kevin Whittle's boat 'Tebay' is for sale in this month's HNBOC mag? A bargain at £35k IMO.

 

Mike

Here's the curious bit......

 

I have been three times through my latest HNBOC news, and even got "herself" to as well. Neither of us can find this boat in it.

 

Do I get a specially edited version of the magazine designed to try and stop me buying more boats ?

Edited February 22, 2012 by alan_fincher

[Liam]

Alan it's in my copy, in the back "adverts" section. Only a small entry though.

[onionbargee]

I'm not sure that the usual rules apply when buying an historic boat. Both of our boats were spur of the moment decisions. After all Josher motors don't come up very often, especially if they have semi diesel as part of the deal. Again, ten years later, when a rare Braithwaite and Kirk butty became available, we leapt in again. I didn't bother with surveys. It was obvious that both boats would need rebottoming and the butty needed refooting as well. I was surprised with the state of the cabin on the motor. It looked good – until I leant against the side and my hand squelched into the sodden woodwork.

 

I'd make the following observations:

 

Always go to one of the top restorers. These guys have years of experience and have huge pride in theirwork. Follow their advice – they've seen it all before. Of course, you may have to wait some time (I had to wait eighteen months) until they can fit you in. Also, don't get wound up over dates. Inevitably they will overrun on jobs while you're waiting for your slot.

 

It may sound cock-eyed, but I've never asked for more than a ball park figure. Once the major work begins there will always snags and unforeseen problems. I've always agreed to pay for an invoice which is submitted each month. The ones I got from WFBCo describe all the work in great detail and will provide an excellent reference if I ever get round to writing up the account of the restorations.

 

Keep in touch with your chosen restorer. I'd travel up from London to Stockton every Saturday to review the week's work and discuss what was going to happen next. This way there are no nasty surprises and misunderstandings.

 

The order I did the work was

1. the bottom and footings.

2. the engine

3. the cabin

4. the steelwork for the undercloth conversions

 

 

Estimating costs is very difficult and will depend on too many variables to give much sensible advice. In my case of the motor the cost of the restoration was five times the original cost of the boat; while to restore the butty it cost four times the price of the boat. In both cases I did all the fitting outmyself.

 

How long will it take to do all the necessary work? Again, a pretty impossible question to answer. When I only had weekends and holidays it took two and a half years to fit the motor out. When I was able to devote three or four days a week to fitting out the butty, it took six months.

 

Best of luck in your search.

 

You know WFBC are double the price of any normal boat building / fabrication, why that is i can't say, so i'm guessing they use solid gold hammers, and platinum MIG wire !!!

[MtB]

Yes, accepted!

 

It's the Station boat shape that kind of appeals, and works for me with the long tug deck. I wasn't looking so much at the back cabin, although as there was (I believe!) no such thing as a "motor" Station boat, I suppose you can't really define "right" or "wrong".

 

 

Here's the curious bit......

 

I have been three times through my latest HNBOC news, and even got "herself" to as well. Neither of us can find this boat in it.

 

Do I get a specially edited version of the magazine designed to try and stop me buying more boats ?

 

Yeah I KNEW it wouldn't be a josher.....

 

The ad is on Page 9 of my copy of newsletter 2011/4

[alan_fincher]

Are you aware the Kevin Whittle's boat 'Tebay' is for sale in this month's HNBOC mag? A bargain at £35k IMO.

 

Alan it's in my copy, in the back "adverts" section. Only a small entry though.

 

The ad is on Page 9 of my copy of newsletter 2011/4

 

Ah!

 

There is the explanation! You said "this month's", but 2011/4 is the issue for last quarter.

 

I've already had this quarter's issue (2012/1) around a week now, and that's why I can't find it in there!

 

No doubt explains why it sounds like it is already sold ?

 

This month features.....

 

"Bournemouth", full length, converted, with a National advertised at £54K.

 

I don't know this boat at all, although I think some who are posting here may know something of its current status.

[Proper Job]

I nearly bought Tebay back in 2007, but Kevin decided to hang on to her

 

At the time he sent me the following regarding her history and I'm sure he wont mind me posting it:

 

Built in 1929 by Yarwoods to the order of the LMS Railway co. She spent her life carrying coal between pits and railways sidings. Hence the term for the LMS and for that matter the GWR as Station Boats. Gauged at Tipton in Oct 1929

Built along very similar lines to the Yarwoods Joshers she has in fact a longer bow deck than a Josher at I think 75 inches, and so I think looks even nicer - a real greyhound.

I bought her from Mattys yard at Coseley on BCN in 87

I needled gunned all inside and cut out the bottoms saving the original wrought iron knees. The bottoms had worn thin in places and rather than muck about patching I had the whole lot replaced by Tony Gregory of GM Engineering. Tony had built a number of everyday hire boats then, along with Bolinder Register founder Chris Lloyd, had built a number of vintage engined tugs. Tony owned a FMC Motor and Chris a Wooden Bolinder powered T Clayton tar boat. So they knew what a proper boat looked like.

 

So Tebay was re footed and re bottomed, in 10 & 12mm steel, had a new cabin and Chris installed my 15hp Bolinder. After ten years I removed the Bolinder and fitted a Kelvin J3 but retained the Bolinder original cast iron prop, and 2 inch stern gear.

BWB had used Tebay, (original LMS name), as mess boat for the Bradley dredging gang and had cut her down.

Tony fitted a new stern, and we rebuilt her as a BCN tug.

[MtB]

Ah!

 

There is the explanation! You said "this month's", but 2011/4 is the issue for last quarter.

 

I've already had this quarter's issue (2012/1) around a week now, and that's why I can't find it in there!

 

No doubt explains why it sounds like it is already sold ?

 

This month features.....

 

"Bournemouth", full length, converted, with a National advertised at £54K.

 

I don't know this boat at all, although I think some who are posting here may know something of its current status.

 

Ah, I haven't had this quarter's issue yet....

 

I used to walk past and admire Bournemouth every time I visited my boat when we moored on the K&A at Burghfield. A most handsome big woolwich (I think!), carrying an excellent example of the classic 1960's/1970's full lenth cabin conversions that are so rare now. The type of conversion that is sadly being chopped off working boats all over the place these days which I think is a terrible shame. If the new owner keeps the conversion, this will be one helluva rare and desirable boat soon because of this trend IMO.

 

Belonged at the time IIRC to the BW chap who lives in the BW house by Burghfield bridge. AA much loved and very well looked after boat. Definitely on my 'lottery list'.

 

Mike

 

ETA: This info is three or four years old, I've not seen Bournemouth since we were chucked out of the Burfield Island Boat Club for not attending their welly-throwing competition, or something. The gits. This still annoys me, can you tell?

Edited February 23, 2012 by Mike the Boilerman

[Redeye]

You know WFBC are double the price of any normal boat building / fabrication, why that is i can't say, so i'm guessing they use solid gold hammers, and platinum MIG wire !!!

 

Really, do you actually have any idea what rates the guys at Stockton charge. If so point me at any boat builder worth talking to that who works for half their rate!

[soldthehouse]

I nearly bought Tebay back in 2007, but Kevin decided to hang on to her

 

At the time he sent me the following regarding her history and I'm sure he wont mind me posting it:

 

Built in 1929 by Yarwoods to the order of the LMS Railway co. She spent her life carrying coal between pits and railways sidings. Hence the term for the LMS and for that matter the GWR as Station Boats. Gauged at Tipton in Oct 1929

Built along very similar lines to the Yarwoods Joshers she has in fact a longer bow deck than a Josher at I think 75 inches, and so I think looks even nicer - a real greyhound.

I bought her from Mattys yard at Coseley on BCN in 87

I needled gunned all inside and cut out the bottoms saving the original wrought iron knees. The bottoms had worn thin in places and rather than muck about patching I had the whole lot replaced by Tony Gregory of GM Engineering. Tony had built a number of everyday hire boats then, along with Bolinder Register founder Chris Lloyd, had built a number of vintage engined tugs. Tony owned a FMC Motor and Chris a Wooden Bolinder powered T Clayton tar boat. So they knew what a proper boat looked like.

 

So Tebay was re footed and re bottomed, in 10 & 12mm steel, had a new cabin and Chris installed my 15hp Bolinder. After ten years I removed the Bolinder and fitted a Kelvin J3 but retained the Bolinder original cast iron prop, and 2 inch stern gear.

BWB had used Tebay, (original LMS name), as mess boat for the Bradley dredging gang and had cut her down.

Tony fitted a new stern, and we rebuilt her as a BCN tug.

I subscribed to Mr Whittles Oil engine Forum newsletter thingamabob many many moons ago, recieved one issue and then nothing,

[Admiral]

Really, do you actually have any idea what rates the guys at Stockton charge. If so point me at any boat builder worth talking to that who works for half their rate!

 

My thoughts as well. Well put.

[MtB]

My thoughts as well. Well put.

 

Mine too. As Red Adair once said, If you think using a professional is expensive, try employing an amateur.

 

Or something along those lines.

[djgoode1980]

Really? I've always thought it was horrible. I think the cabin looks all wrong and with far to much upward sweep at the back.

 

thats a small upward sweep compared to Josh

 

Talking of Josh built in 1979 never been out the water will let you know how much you need a survay after had her out if shes fairly sound then an old workboat that was built to last should be fine

 

and yes joshers are rare on the market but have sorted the money out and when one comes up its mine its what I want was looking at all sorts of boats but they were either cheap or avaliablebut never really what was after and I dont want a string of boats to get to what I want plus have a Josh so its got to be a josher lol

 

Amy are you bothered about what you buy as you could have St Tudno the bantock needs cabin engine and fitting and depending how you felt a motor stern or putting back to butty but the bottom and footings in good order

[Black Ibis]

Really? I've always thought it was horrible. I think the cabin looks all wrong and with far to much upward sweep at the back.

 

thats a small upward sweep compared to Josh

 

Talking of Josh built in 1979 never been out the water will let you know how much you need a survay after had her out if shes fairly sound then an old workboat that was built to last should be fine

 

and yes joshers are rare on the market but have sorted the money out and when one comes up its mine its what I want was looking at all sorts of boats but they were either cheap or avaliablebut never really what was after and I dont want a string of boats to get to what I want plus have a Josh so its got to be a josher lol

 

Amy are you bothered about what you buy as you could have St Tudno the bantock needs cabin engine and fitting and depending how you felt a motor stern or putting back to butty but the bottom and footings in good order

 

We need to be able to move straight in to any boat we buy for logistical reasons - we'd be homeless if we didn't have a boat we could move onto immediately once we sell the Duck, even if it was only camping! So, thanks for thinking of us, but we really can't take on an unconverted boat that doesn't have an engine.

[djgoode1980]

Take it non of the boats on apollo duck fit the bill?

[Black Ibis]

Take it non of the boats on apollo duck fit the bill?

No, not really, unfortunately. We keep an eye on it daily, but nothing's come up that's quite right. Probably too picky but this will be my home!

 

Take it non of the boats on apollo duck fit the bill?

No, not really, unfortunately. We keep an eye on it daily, but nothing's come up that's quite right. Probably too picky but this will be my home!

[alan_fincher]

Take it non of the boats on apollo duck fit the bill?

Actually quite unusual for such boats to make it onto "The Duck", or often even to be advertised at all.

 

I'd say the majority of historic narrow boats tend to change hands without ever appearing in a public advert.

 

Strange, but, as I'm sure Black Ibis knows by now, generally true.

[Black Ibis]

Actually quite unusual for such boats to make it onto "The Duck", or often even to be advertised at all.

 

I'd say the majority of historic narrow boats tend to change hands without ever appearing in a public advert.

 

Strange, but, as I'm sure Black Ibis knows by now, generally true.

Yes, absolutely. Still checking the Duck just in case, but expecting that our connections with HNBC will be more likely to lead us to a boat than any website.

[Chris Pink]

Are you set on steel? I know of a fully converted, restored 10 years ago wooden motor ex fmc ex salvation army. Not sure of builder. With RN.

[pete harrison]

Are you set on steel? I know of a fully converted, restored 10 years ago wooden motor ex fmc ex salvation army. Not sure of builder. With RN.

 

Originally built by Fellows, Morton & Clayton Ltd., Uxbridge in 1932 - extensively rebuilt by John Woolley at Abel's, Bristol mid 1990's.

[Black Ibis]

Are you set on steel?

 

Yes, I think we are. Don't think I'm brave enough for a wooden boat! But thanks anyway.

[djgoode1980]

Actually quite unusual for such boats to make it onto "The Duck", or often even to be advertised at all.

 

I'd say the majority of historic narrow boats tend to change hands without ever appearing in a public advert.

 

Strange, but, as I'm sure Black Ibis knows by now,

 

Ah yes still putting the feelers out

 

Are you set on steel? I know of a fully converted, restored 10 years ago wooden motor ex fmc ex salvation army. Not sure of builder. With RN

 

what boat is this as if its the right price and fairly sound I might be interested tho Id prefer deconverted but it has to be an FMC for me im a josher snob you know lol

[pete harrison]

what boat is this as if its the right price and fairly sound I might be interested tho Id prefer deconverted but it has to be an FMC for me im a josher snob you know lol

 

The name of this boat is ASTER. I am surprised the two clue's of this boat being built in 1932 and it having a Salvation Army connection have not given its identity away

Edited April 18, 2012 by pete harrison