Volunteer Lock Keepers

[DaveG]

BBC Breakfast will be running a piece between 8.30 and 9.00 about CART (that's what they called it) recruiting volunteer lock keepers on the K & A.

[churchward]

BBC Breakfast will be running a piece between 8.30 and 9.00 about CART (that's what they called it) recruiting volunteer lock keepers on the K & A.

It was on before that too. I saw it sat in my hotel room in Portsmouth today. They were filming on the K&A but they were talking about needing volunteers all over the system not just K&A. I thought it was quite a good piece given the time constraints they will have.

[deletedaccount]

They need volunteer dredgers and volunteer lock repairers with cranes and gates, not lock keepers.

[matty40s]

It was on before that too. I saw it sat in my hotel room in Portsmouth today. They were filming on the K&A but they were talking about needing volunteers all over the system not just K&A. I thought it was quite a good piece given the time constraints they will have.

 

job requirements.....

must turn up with a bucket of water every day.

must be able to padlock locks effectively.

 

A few weeks training does not replace a lifetimes experience. The Watford and Foxton bunch are mostly happy enough, but not as savvy as the paid people they have mostly replaced.

I was coming up the Watford flight in late May, the water was cascading from one of the badly leaking middle flight gates over my pointy end as it always has. No problems, cratch board and cratch covers stop any ingress.

Locky frantically shouting and signalling me to go backwards........"I'm 70foot, I cant".He carried on waving, then trundled to my end of the lock and said, "move back a bit the water is coming over the front".

He then realised that my tiller was virtually touching the gate behind me.

Then the sun came out!!

Edited January 18, 2012 by matty40s

[john6767]

Link to the report that was shown today on Breakfast.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16607420

 

There was a better piece about the same thing shown on Midlands Today on Monday, but can't find that online.

[history girl]

How will the usual stuff about liability insurance, health and safety etc come into this? The first accident where a volunteer is involved is not worth thinking about. They could be taken to the cleaners if not covered on insurance. This is a whole new bag of worms! {Going slightly off topic for a moment - we were up on the Llangollen during the summer and were told by a BW staff member that the Information Centre at Llangollen was taken over by volunteers - on the first day of the season when it should have been open, no-one turned up. It has never opened all through the summer.)

 

Volunteers are just that - they can withdraw at a moments notice and who can blame them when they are not being paid, but asked to turn out in all weathers. Why do I get the feeling that giving the waterways "Trust" status with the majority of staff being volunteers, they think it will be like the National Trust, where a happy band of volunteers turn up every week without fail. (I am on my soapbox now, so please forgive me.) NT staff do not have to go out in all weathers to clear rubbish from locks, check the pond levels on flights etc. Also, I personally cannot see anyone volunteering to clean the service blocks. Even if NT volunteers don't turn up, it means a house or garden will not open. Not a serious issue. It could be if a Waterways volunteer doesn't turn up, especially with so many novice hirers on the loose who depend on staff to get them through locks etc. Also, what about all the staff who will lose their jobs to volunteers? Aah, I feel better for that.

[nina]

They didn't mention the likely abuse lock keepers may face from some boaters. Only last year one of the Watford lock keepers was threatened with being thrown in the canal by an irate Italian boater who didn't want to join the queue.

[Speedwheel]

job requirements.....

must turn up with a bucket of water every day.

must be able to padlock locks effectively.

 

A few weeks training does not replace a lifetimes experience. The Watford and Foxton bunch are mostly happy enough, but not as savvy as the paid people they have mostly replaced.

I was coming up the Watford flight in late May, the water was cascading from one of the badly leaking middle flight gates over my pointy end as it always has. No problems, cratch board and cratch covers stop any ingress.

Locky frantically shouting and signalling me to go backwards........"I'm 70foot, I cant".He carried on waving, then trundled to my end of the lock and said, "move back a bit the water is coming over the front".

He then realised that my tiller was virtually touching the gate behind me.

Then the sun came out!!

 

The guy at Braunston was a total prat. Had no idea how to work locks efficiently and was wasting so much water.

[churchward]

How will the usual stuff about liability insurance, health and safety etc come into this? The first accident where a volunteer is involved is not worth thinking about. They could be taken to the cleaners if not covered on insurance. This is a whole new bag of worms! {Going slightly off topic for a moment - we were up on the Llangollen during the summer and were told by a BW staff member that the Information Centre at Llangollen was taken over by volunteers - on the first day of the season when it should have been open, no-one turned up. It has never opened all through the summer.)

 

Volunteers are just that - they can withdraw at a moments notice and who can blame them when they are not being paid, but asked to turn out in all weathers. Why do I get the feeling that giving the waterways "Trust" status with the majority of staff being volunteers, they think it will be like the National Trust, where a happy band of volunteers turn up every week without fail. (I am on my soapbox now, so please forgive me.) NT staff do not have to go out in all weathers to clear rubbish from locks, check the pond levels on flights etc. Also, I personally cannot see anyone volunteering to clean the service blocks. Even if NT volunteers don't turn up, it means a house or garden will not open. Not a serious issue. It could be if a Waterways volunteer doesn't turn up, especially with so many novice hirers on the loose who depend on staff to get them through locks etc. Also, what about all the staff who will lose their jobs to volunteers? Aah, I feel better for that.

I don't think any of the issues you raise are that much of a problem and can be mitigated or resolved. I don't want people to lose their jobs over this but on the other hand given the choice between nothing ie they lose their jobs anyway and a volunteer group that will operate things alongside hopefully but instead if necessary of paid staff then so be it.

 

Yes volunteers can withdraw their services. In my experience this hardly ever happens in terms of threatening any service reliant upon them. The whole of the Heritage railway industry is based upon armies of volunteers they simply would cease to exist without them. The roles they do can be very responsible I am a signalman for instance so in that operational role I have lives in my hands (many more than assisting boats through locks on a canal) when on duty. I am however appropriately trained and qualified and get re tested every 2 years. I have never known an operating day on the railway be stopped due to lack of rostered operational people failing to turn up. Generally the psychology of volunteering is such that a volunteer by the nature of it is probably more committed than a salaried individual because they are doing it for the love of it and the commitment to whatever cause it is associated with.

[cotswoldsman]

They didn't mention the likely abuse lock keepers may face from some boaters. Only last year one of the Watford lock keepers was threatened with being thrown in the canal by an irate Italian boater who didn't want to join the queue.

 

The sooner we stop Johnny Foreigner coming on our canals the better.............They should behave like all those well behaved British Boaters who never threaten anyone.

[john6767]

But volunteer lock keepers are not new, so it would be interested to hear from someone who does it on how training and insurance etc work; but in these H&S days it is hard to see how it will be much different to paid staff in that respect.

 

The BBC report mentioned that they were looking for 60 volunteers nationwide, so hardly big numbers. The Midlands report on Monday showed a map with perhaps 10 Midlands sites where volunteers would be deployed. So extrapolating that across the country is it perhaps not more than 1 volunteer per site nationwide, little more than a bit of extra help to the existing staff. Or have I got this wrong somewhere?

[Guest wanted]

There is a new letter pinned to the gates of our moorings asking if anyone would be willing to take their boat up to Clitheroes lock to help promote a volunteer recruitment drive and to sign up vol lockies. Underneath is another new notice saying that BW will no longer provide a hose with the pump out due to the cost of repairs.

[Scotty]

They didn't mention the likely abuse lock keepers may face from some boaters. Only last year one of the Watford lock keepers was threatened with being thrown in the canal by an irate Italian boater who didn't want to join the queue.

Was it a really big white boat with lots of people onboard?

[Mick and Maggie]

How will the usual stuff about liability insurance, health and safety etc come into this? The first accident where a volunteer is involved is not worth thinking about. They could be taken to the cleaners if not covered on insurance. This is a whole new bag of worms!

 

 

 

The first one will be as a result of a test case...

 

Have a look at this. A different charity - but manned by volunteers.

 

The telling comments from the case are -

 

Paul Michell, the barrister who successfully represented the CAB, recognises that the outcome does not leave a satisfactory state of affairs. "If volunteers are not protected under employment and occupation directives, then how are they protected?" he said after the case. "That is the next question."

 

 

Kate Bowgett, Association of Volunteer Managers, also thinks the appeal court got it right. Volunteers she says, "don't exist legally".

 

 

As for me - no way jose!

[Nightwatch]

Just watched the link to the BBC video. Stroke of the nose and a bag of hay.

 

Not for me thanks.

 

Martyn

[Athy]

Was it a really big white boat with lots of people onboard?

:clapping:

I suppose he kept getting too close to the side as well.

[matty40s]

:clapping:

I suppose he kept getting too close to the side as well.

 

he has since been caught practicing his "get a 200 ft high boat under a 150 ft high harbour bridge" maneouver....

[MartinClark]

They didn't mention the likely abuse lock keepers may face from some boaters. Only last year one of the Watford lock keepers was threatened with being thrown in the canal by an irate Italian boater who didn't want to join the queue.

Was it a really big white boat with lots of people onboard?

 

The lock keeper should have told him to put his boat on one side to wait his turn...

[magpie patrick]

How will the usual stuff about liability insurance, health and safety etc come into this?

 

Volunteers are just that - they can withdraw at a moments notice and who can blame them when they are not being paid, but asked to turn out in all weathers.

 

I can't answer for all organisations, but for the Somersetshire Coal Canal Society, I can offer this

 

1) we carry Employers Liability Insurance and Public Liability Insurance, the policy is a trade policy that covers volunteers as if they were paid employees. Cover is restricted for minors and the over 80's, but that affects the insurnace of the minor or over 80 year old, not the victim of the accident they might have caused

 

2) the key will not be insurance, but Health and Safety. Volunteers have died on canal projects, for example a female volunteer was found face down in a lock on the Cotswold Canals six years ago, and was pronounced dead at the scene. However it transpired she had died of a heart attack before hitting the water and that the procedures were generally sound.

 

3) The key is dedicated volunteers, and the key to that, aside from getting the right people, is routine and making them feel needed. We have a hard core of about ten people who always turn out, and they are actually disappointed if we have to cancel our work parties, for this reason, we avoid cancelling unless absolutely necessary, and we always find someone a worthwhile job to do. It may sound daft, but giving someone sole responsibility for making tea gives the right person a sense of duty and pride.

 

I'll give you an example, at the last Coal Canal WRG dig, one volunteer complained (in a nice way) that the accommodation being in Bradford on Avon meant "we lose half an hour travelling when we could be working". I seem to recall the temperature was not exactly balmy and the rain was looming

[nina]

The lock keeper should have told him to put his boat on one side to wait his turn...

 

 

Oh I think he got told what to do by the lock keeper:-) We've seen the lock keeper at Foxton having to deal with some difficult people too. Makes you wonder why they choose a narrowboat holiday if they're in such a rush.

[history girl]

Oh I think he got told what to do by the lock keeper:-) We've seen the lock keeper at Foxton having to deal with some difficult people too. Makes you wonder why they choose a narrowboat holiday if they're in such a rush.

 

Some people take so long to wind down on holiday.. They never seem to get out of "motorway mode". Also, being on a schedule {which sometimes seems ridiculous} means that they cannot hang about. They need to get back on time or face a financial penalty.

[magpie patrick]

Oh I think he got told what to do by the lock keeper:-) We've seen the lock keeper at Foxton having to deal with some difficult people too. Makes you wonder why they choose a narrowboat holiday if they're in such a rush.

 

I think you may have missed Martin's tongue in cheek reference to an Italian captain...

[Timx]

I think,sack the management,if it creates that much income, but the only way of making it profitable is to get people to work for free,is rediculous, get new management with new ideas...bring the canals forward not back, i find it unbelievably mismanaged, no common sense prevails..

[MartinClark]

Oh I think he got told what to do by the lock keeper:-)

 

I suspect you may have missed the reference to the Italian captain and the big white boat.

 

Edited to add:

And I missed Patrick's comment before I posted mine!

Edited January 18, 2012 by MartinClark

[ditchcrawler]

job requirements.....

must turn up with a bucket of water every day.

must be able to padlock locks effectively.

 

A few weeks training does not replace a lifetimes experience. The Watford and Foxton bunch are mostly happy enough, but not as savvy as the paid people they have mostly replaced.

I was coming up the Watford flight in late May, the water was cascading from one of the badly leaking middle flight gates over my pointy end as it always has. No problems, cratch board and cratch covers stop any ingress.

Locky frantically shouting and signalling me to go backwards........"I'm 70foot, I cant".He carried on waving, then trundled to my end of the lock and said, "move back a bit the water is coming over the front".

He then realised that my tiller was virtually touching the gate behind me.

Then the sun came out!!

When we did Watford he was spot on and obviously a very experienced boater, that was a real breath of fresh air. Lots of the "Professional" keepers only have a seasons experience of the flight. How many keepers have there been at Foxton since Mick and Crystal finished?