Gazboatman Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Ok, we crashed into a tree whilst doing a bit of night navigating, well not exactly crashed into a tree but an overhanging tree wrecked out chimney and stole our tv ariel. So we decided to try reverse the boat back to try retrieve the ariel. After a lot of faffing about we managed to get it back. But what I want to know is, do you have any control over which direction the boat goes in whilst reversing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcoaster Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) No, unfortunately not. You have to get the boat moving backwards in reverse gear, then throw it into forwards in order to make the necessary tiller adjustment then throw it back into reverse for it to take effect. If that makes sense. Edited December 4, 2011 by Starcoaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboatman Posted December 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 No, unfortunately not. You have to get the boat moving backwards in reverse gear, then throw it into forwards in order to make the necessary tiller adjustment then throw it back into reverse for it to take effect. If that makes sense. Hmmm I have had a few, that might make sense in the morning. WE had to reverse around a bend so we reversed in a straight line until the boat was near the banking then threw it in forward and pulled the tiller all the way to one side to get the boat in a better position and kept doing the same until we'd got to the tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty40s Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 No, unfortunately not. You have to get the boat moving backwards in reverse gear, then throw it into forwards in order to make the necessary tiller adjustment then throw it back into reverse for it to take effect. If that makes sense. The big challenge here is the speed,full revs reverse, is extremely difficult to control, there is usually a speed, just over tickover, where the tiller does the trick,depending on your swim/length of tiller etc. It is a fine art, and not to be practiced in high winds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ange Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Worth having a read of this thread:- reversing thread Still dark magic for us - it can take a long time with many forays into unexpected parts of the canal if we attempt to travel any distance backwards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Québec Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 The big challenge here is the speed,full revs reverse, is extremely difficult to control, there is usually a speed, just over tickover, where the tiller does the trick,depending on your swim/length of tiller etc. It is a fine art, and not to be practiced in high winds. ....in my experience it's any wind at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) As Starcoaster says, you don't have much control in astern and it's the bow that will wander and define in which direction the boat goes. So assuming you don't have a bow thruster, then your best bet is to look forward to see what the bow is doing with occasional glances back to see where you are going. When the bow starts to wander take the engine out of astern into neutral and then into forward using the rudder to correct the bow position, before going back into astern again, and so on... The manoeuvre is called "back and fill". Edited December 4, 2011 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcoaster Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 /\ I like the fact no one has asked me how I speak with such certainty, when I won't even move the boat in a straight line forwards on me own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalesman Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 /\ I like the fact no one has asked me how I speak with such certainty, when I won't even move the boat in a straight line forwards on me own. You will find when your going astern if you put the tiller over to the way you want the bow to go it will steer backwards IE the opposite way to when your going forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ange Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 /\ I like the fact no one has asked me how I speak with such certainty, when I won't even move the boat in a straight line forwards on me own. I must admit I had a chuckle when I read your post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazboatman Posted December 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Ok thanks. Also whilst we are on the subject, is my rudder at risk of being damaged due to under water obstructions whilst reversing? I know my rear fender should stop any damage being caused hitting anything above the waterline, but when reversing towards the bank I know there's a good chance it could be shallow or have underlying rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 You will find when your going astern if you put the tiller over to the way you want the bow to go it will steer backwards IE the opposite way to when your going forwards. It depends on the boat. Using the rudder as a deflector works on some boats, but on others it makes no difference at all. Ok thanks. Also whilst we are on the subject, is my rudder at risk of being damaged due to under water obstructions whilst reversing? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Dowson Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 /\ I like the fact no one has asked me how I speak with such certainty, when I won't even move the boat in a straight line forwards on me own. Don't you know this is the very polite forum, no one would dream of doing such a thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schweizer Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 The ability to steer a boat backwards in a straight line (or round a bend) seems to have as much to do with the hull shape and depth of the hull under the water, as it does with the ability of the steerer. Our boat has a fairly deep hull at 30" and it has 15ft long swims, it also has a very large rudder, all of which seems to make it compartively easy to steer backwards. Of course all this goes to pot if there is a strong flow or a sideways wind, in which case the only recoursse is to place someone in the foredeck with a pole to keep the bow in the centre of the camal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottle Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Another thing about reversing, just when you think you have mastered your boat, it will do something completely different the next time. I find gently, gently with the revs (just slightly more than tick-over) never ever full 90º rudder and react as soon as the boat goes off line. ps. practice does not make perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
by'eck Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) My last sea boat would consistently describe anti-clockwise circles in reverse due to prop walk. Helm had absolutely no effect on this. Throttle just made the circling quicker. If you were lucky & started from standstill with engine idling in reverse, enough longitudinal wash over the rudder could eventually be achieved to get steerage, otherwise it was circles again. The normal answer was to start with engine slow in reverse & use starboard bowthrust to counteract the stern movement due to the prop walk, & keep the boat straight. Once about 1kt was achieved in reverse you were in business Edited December 4, 2011 by richardhula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPy Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 all boats should have a bow thruster which is the only effective steering mechanism when reversing. should be made a requirement of the BSS for all narrowboats. ................. coat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidss Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 all boats should have a bow thruster which is the only effective steering mechanism when reversing. should be made a requirement of the BSS for all narrowboats. There are different forms of bowthruster. In no order of priority: ... A motor and propellers in a tube, possibly with extra batteries. As David Schweizer wrote ... the only recourse is to place someone in the foredeck with a pole to keep the bow in the centre of the canal. It is possibly a moot point which is the more expensive to keep on hand, for those occasions when they prove invaluable. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Schweizer Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Another thing about reversing, just when you think you have mastered your boat, it will do something completely different the next time. I find gently, gently with the revs (just slightly more than tick-over) never ever full 90º rudder and react as soon as the boat goes off line. ps. practice does not make perfect. Interestingly I find the opposite to be true on our boat, the faster it goes the straighter the line, but I am convinced that has more to do with hull shape than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottle Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 I think that that just proves that all boats are different. It will be interesting, for me anyway, the next time I have to reverse the boat. Just fitted new batteries that are, in total 42Kg heavier than the previous ones but removed 322Kg of ballast, so boat is actually 280Kg lighter and sits about 2.5 cms higher in the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Hogg Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 No, unfortunately not. You have to get the boat moving backwards in reverse gear, then throw it into forwards in order to make the necessary tiller adjustment then throw it back into reverse for it to take effect. If that makes sense. Sorry. this is wrong. Once under way and moving astern the boat will move where the tiller bar points with you looking astern. The pivot point is right at the rudder so very slight variations will be slow to see with the bow just starting to move. Better to practise somewhere first where there is plenty of water. I have shown this to many people who say "it wont steer in reverse", you just have to understand the hydrodynamics of your boat in reverse are not that of going forward. engaging forard gear to correct is sometimes essential but not the key element of steering astern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy-Neil Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Ok thanks. Also whilst we are on the subject, is my rudder at risk of being damaged due to under water obstructions whilst reversing? I know my rear fender should stop any damage being caused hitting anything above the waterline, but when reversing towards the bank I know there's a good chance it could be shallow or have underlying rocks. Yes, but who cares about the bent rudder if, when you strike the obstruction, the tiller bar chucks you over the side and into the whirling blades. A few years back a school teacher, on a hire boat with a party of kids, met her end this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Hogg Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 all boats should have a bow thruster which is the only effective steering mechanism when reversing. should be made a requirement of the BSS for all narrowboats. ................. coat I hope you write this in jest! Or simply if you believe it dont buy a narrowboat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 I strongly advise pausing in neutral to allow engine revs to drop to idle speed before changing direction with the control lever and not bash it straight through as a lot of folk do,as it makes the gearbox scream out,and shortens its life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick and Maggie Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 But what I want to know is, do you have any control over which direction the boat goes in whilst reversing? My method involves a 28lb "Avery mud anchor" that is attached by rope to the T stud. This is thrown into the canal and dragged some way (about 20 ft) behind the boat. It helps to keep the boat on line. On our summer cruise we had to reverse back about a mile from Kirkstall Lock to the Kirkstall Moorings when BW closed the lock at 2:30pm rather than the published 4:00pm. It was easily acheived using the mud anchor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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