Reversing a NB

[cereal tiller]

Sorry. this is wrong. Once under way and moving astern the boat will move where the tiller bar points with you looking astern. The pivot point is right at the rudder so very slight variations will be slow to see with the bow just starting to move. Better to practise somewhere first where there is plenty of water. I have shown this to many people who say "it wont steer in reverse", you just have to understand the hydrodynamics of your boat in reverse are not that of going forward. engaging forard gear to correct is sometimes essential but not the key element of steering astern.

Agreed lawrence.

 

reversing on a canal:

 

try and place the prop in the centre of the channel.

 

engage astern with tickover slightly raised,keep rudder pointed astern until the boat is moving backwards at approx 2 mph.

 

modest adjustments to tiller angle,keep checking bow position,if the bow is wandering off course.shut off thrust.

 

if the prop becomes close to one side of the channel,it will draw the stern of the boat to that side.

 

only use forward thrust if all else fails,too much ahead thrust will disturb the water in the channel,the eddies caused will complicate the manouvre.

 

maintain a nonchalant expression at all times!

[Weathership]

Many useful hints and tips in this string. If I may add this one (although useless if you are single handed). Having had to reverse for quite a distance due to damaged lock gate and no handy winding hole, a crew member on the towpath hanging on to the bow and stern ropes and adjusting as necessary made for fairly trouble free reversing.

[Hastings]

I hope you write this in jest! Or simply if you believe it dont buy a narrowboat

 

Laurence -

 

I have no problem with narrowboats being fitted with bowthrusters, as (a) it makes the owner feel smug and better, and ( it helps create jobs at bowthruster factories, and boatyards that fit and service them. But I do have a problem with them being used. If you know how to drive a narrow boat, you just don't need a bowthruster, except perhaps (and I hate to admit this) on the rare occasion that your bow gets stuck in mud when singlehanding a boat.

 

You're right when you say that boats can be reversed reasonably successfully without a bowthruster. For reasons known only to me, I frequently take our boat backwards down the bottom three locks at Audlem,and rarely go off line. But when I do, it's a sternthruster I'd need to get me out of the predicament. I've got one - it's called a pole, with me on the end.

 

To my mind, the worst offence in using a bowthruster is to move the bows out to move away from a bank side mooring. Apart from making an awful noise and nearly flattening the boat's batteries, it tends to wash the bank away. There's no need to do this - just give the bows a push. My cousin used to "drive" BP tankers around the world - he said that bow and stern thrusters were useful when getting these enormous ships into berths only a few feet longer than them - now, that's a proper use for a bowthruster!

[David Schweizer]

Many useful hints and tips in this string. If I may add this one (although useless if you are single handed). Having had to reverse for quite a distance due to damaged lock gate and no handy winding hole, a crew member on the towpath hanging on to the bow and stern ropes and adjusting as necessary made for fairly trouble free reversing.

Usefull if the towpath is on the opposite side to where prop action wants to put the bow, and I suppose you could always equip the towpath assistant with a long pole to push the boat out if the towpath is on the same side.

[Laurence Hogg]

Laurence -

 

I have no problem with narrowboats being fitted with bowthrusters, as (a) it makes the owner feel smug and better, and ( it helps create jobs at bowthruster factories, and boatyards that fit and service them. But I do have a problem with them being used. If you know how to drive a narrow boat, you just don't need a bowthruster, except perhaps (and I hate to admit this) on the rare occasion that your bow gets stuck in mud when singlehanding a boat.

 

You're right when you say that boats can be reversed reasonably successfully without a bowthruster. For reasons known only to me, I frequently take our boat backwards down the bottom three locks at Audlem,and rarely go off line. But when I do, it's a sternthruster I'd need to get me out of the predicament. I've got one - it's called a pole, with me on the end.

 

To my mind, the worst offence in using a bowthruster is to move the bows out to move away from a bank side mooring. Apart from making an awful noise and nearly flattening the boat's batteries, it tends to wash the bank away. There's no need to do this - just give the bows a push. My cousin used to "drive" BP tankers around the world - he said that bow and stern thrusters were useful when getting these enormous ships into berths only a few feet longer than them - now, that's a proper use for a bowthruster!

 

Totally agree!

[carlt]

Sorry. this is wrong.

Only wrong if you know the boat.

 

Steering whilst in reverse varies so much from boat to boat that you have to have some familiarity with the vessel before it can be achieved confidently (if at all, in some cases).

 

Steerage can be gained, with gentle use of forward gear whilst moving backwards, on any old tub, making the more reliable method on an unfamiliar boat.

[AlanH]

I've been boating for 10 years now. 5 with our present boat. On a still day sometimes the bow swings to the left and other days it swings to the right when reversing. I have to do some pretty accurate reversing when I enter our club arm and can confidently say that I am still useless at it. The rudder has no discernable effect at any speed which is not surprising as its area is a tiny proportion of the hull length and it is not directing a jet of water. Progress is very slow as I have to constantly put it in forward to straighten up.

 

The accuracy of my reversing is also dependent on the number of people watching.

[Tim F]

I have no problem with narrowboats being fitted with bowthrusters, as (a) it makes the owner feel smug and better, and ( it helps create jobs at bowthruster factories, and boatyards that fit and service them. But I do have a problem with them being used. If you know how to drive a narrow boat, you just don't need a bowthruster, except perhaps (and I hate to admit this) on the rare occasion that your bow gets stuck in mud when singlehanding a boat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does your car have power steering and servo brakes, surely there not needed.

[Roger Gunkel]

I think it was Richard mentioned prop walk earlier, which can make a noticeable difference when you start reversing. If you stop the boat parallel with the bank intending to reverse back, then initially the rotation of the prop will pull the stern in the opposite direction of rotation. So if your prop rotates clockwise, then the stern will be pushed to port as you start to reverse. That means that you are already going off line as you start to move. The easiest way to overcome it is to practice it a couple of times to see how much it pulls the stern, then you can stop the boat in future with the stern out of alignment the other way, then when you start to reverse, the stern will swing into line.

 

Bear in mind that the harder you reverse, the more prop walk there will be. The same thing applies when stopping the boat of course, the stern will swing according to the prop rotation. It can be very useful when mooring, if you use the prop walk when you stop the boat, to swing the stern in.

 

Roger

[Theo]

Moving this to boat handling.

 

Nick

[David Schweizer]

I think it was Richard mentioned prop walk earlier, which can make a noticeable difference when you start reversing. If you stop the boat parallel with the bank intending to reverse back, then initially the rotation of the prop will pull the stern in the opposite direction of rotation. So if your prop rotates clockwise, then the stern will be pushed to port as you start to reverse. That means that you are already going off line as you start to move. The easiest way to overcome it is to practice it a couple of times to see how much it pulls the stern, then you can stop the boat in future with the stern out of alignment the other way, then when you start to reverse, the stern will swing into line.

 

Bear in mind that the harder you reverse, the more prop walk there will be. The same thing applies when stopping the boat of course, the stern will swing according to the prop rotation. It can be very useful when mooring, if you use the prop walk when you stop the boat, to swing the stern in.

 

Roger

My experience suggests that the degree of prop walk is also relevant to the depth of the water, in shallow water it is more significant than in deep water, which is presumably why some posters have advised to keep the stern in the middle of the channel when reversing.

Edited December 4, 2011 by David Schweizer

[cereal tiller]

My experience suggests that the degree of prop walk is also relevant to the depth of the water, in shallow water it is more significant than in deep water, which is presumably why some posters have advised to keep the stern in the middle of the channel when reversing.

Agreed

prop walk is more pronounced in shallow water,in water that is more than a metre or so deep,the prop walk can be negated by increasing the SHAFT speed to around 750 rpm.

 

the main reason for keeping the prop. mid channel is to keep the water flow equal on both sides of the boats hull.

 

if the prop. is closer to one side of the channel the flow being pushed along the sides will alter the boats course,the closer side's stern will draw into the bank and encourage the bow to swing out to centre channel.

[matty40s]

Of course all this goes to pot if there is a strong flow or a sideways wind, in which case the only recoursse is to place someone in the foredeck with a pole to keep the bow in the centre of the camal.

 

I find pole up the arse of a girafe is far more effective than a camal....

[Phil Ambrose]

The ability to steer a boat backwards in a straight line (or round a bend) seems to have as much to do with the hull shape and depth of the hull under the water, as it does with the ability of the steerer.

 

Our boat has a fairly deep hull at 30" and it has 15ft long swims, it also has a very large rudder, all of which seems to make it compartively easy to steer backwards. Of course all this goes to pot if there is a strong flow or a sideways wind, in which case the only recoursse is to place someone in the foredeck with a pole to keep the bow in the centre of the camal.

 

Or you can chuck a mudweight over the bows (attached of course) and this will help a lot in keeping the bow in a straight line.

 

Phil

[blackrose]

Sorry. this is wrong. Once under way and moving astern the boat will move where the tiller bar points with you looking astern. The pivot point is right at the rudder so very slight variations will be slow to see with the bow just starting to move. Better to practise somewhere first where there is plenty of water. I have shown this to many people who say "it wont steer in reverse", you just have to understand the hydrodynamics of your boat in reverse are not that of going forward. engaging forard gear to correct is sometimes essential but not the key element of steering astern.

 

It wasn't "wrong". Engaging forward gear is one essential element of steering in astern on some boats. As I said previously, your approach may work with some boats but not with others. Every boat is different and there is no "one size fits all" approach.

Edited December 4, 2011 by blackrose

[blackrose]

I have no problem with narrowboats being fitted with bowthrusters, as (a) it makes the owner feel smug and better, and ( it helps create jobs at bowthruster factories, and boatyards that fit and service them. But I do have a problem with them being used. If you know how to drive a narrow boat, you just don't need a bowthruster, except perhaps (and I hate to admit this) on the rare occasion that your bow gets stuck in mud when singlehanding a boat.

Most bowthrusters on NBs won't be powerful enough to dislodge the bow of a displacement hull if it's stuck on mud! Also, the owner would be unwise to try this because the chances are something on the bottom would get sucked into the tunnel and wreck the prop.

 

To my mind, the worst offence in using a bowthruster is to move the bows out to move away from a bank side mooring. Apart from making an awful noise and nearly flattening the boat's batteries, it tends to wash the bank away. There's no need to do this - just give the bows a push. My cousin used to "drive" BP tankers around the world - he said that bow and stern thrusters were useful when getting these enormous ships into berths only a few feet longer than them - now, that's a proper use for a bowthruster!

Nearly flattening the boat's batteries? An electric BT should have dedicated batteries at the bow. These should be constantly charged while underway and shouldn't be nearly flattened by the use you describe. I think you vastly over-estimate the power of the average BT as installed on a NB. The prop from the main engine of a NB will have a far more detrimental effect in terms of erosion if used anywhere near the bank.

[Keeping Up]

Don't waste your time trying to control the boat in reverse - use the time constructively thinking up your excuses as to why you wanted to reverse into such an odd place. Use excuses like "yes you're right, you can just see the spire of the church from the middle of the reed-bed" and so on.

[muddywaters]

No, unfortunately not.

You have to get the boat moving backwards in reverse gear, then throw it into forwards in order to make the necessary tiller adjustment then throw it back into reverse for it to take effect.

If that makes sense.

That is what I have always done and it works for me.

Got a comment of great job from one of the Anglo Welsh staff at Trevor last time I had to do it.

[bizzard]

Springers generally steer in astern very well as did the old Harborough Marine boats, more akin to a loaded working boat as both boats are of single chine design hull shape,much more sea kindly and boaty,and gave them a little extra draught which also helps to keep them directional. My old 40' Harborough could be steered almost as easily in astern as ahead,i could place it on a large sixpence,Ahem sometimes a very large sixpence.

Generally speaking the shorter the boat the more quickly it will go askew.The longer,slower to go askew.

As modern n/b's and w/b's are wind rode,(far more of their area above the waterline than below unlike a well found displacement sea boat which would have more area below the waterline than above which made them tide rode and therefore much more directional and much less affected by the wind,unless of course its blowing old boots.

[Québec]

Clearly a whole load of variables to take into account and a number of useful strategies to deal with them.

 

Just wondering out loud about keeping the bow reasonably straight when reversing. There's obviously a) bow thruster, b,) person in bow with pole, c) dragging a weight.

 

Re: c)...In a previous life I made and flew kites...both large and small (and still fly them now and again....particularly the 'bird of prey' kite that frightens away the noisy Canadian geese). Many kite designs utilise a long tail or several shorter tails, sometimes with ribbons or similar attached, acting as a counter-positional 'drag' to keep the kite in position. I was wondering whether a line or several lines of 'something' that floats (rather than dragging something heavy along the bottom) but which at the same time is reasonably heavy would do the same, or whether the weight/length required to keep the boat in line would be far too great?

 

[Phil Ambrose]

Clearly a whole load of variables to take into account and a number of useful strategies to deal with them.

 

Just wondering out loud about keeping the bow reasonably straight when reversing. There's obviously a) bow thruster, b,) person in bow with pole, c) dragging a weight.

 

Re: c)...In a previous life I made and flew kites...both large and small (and still fly them now and again....particularly the 'bird of prey' kite that frightens away the noisy Canadian geese). Many kite designs utilise a long tail or several shorter tails, sometimes with ribbons or similar attached, acting as a counter-positional 'drag' to keep the kite in position. I was wondering whether a line or several lines of 'something' that floats (rather than dragging something heavy along the bottom) but which at the same time is reasonably heavy would do the same, or whether the weight/length required to keep the boat in line would be far too great?

 

 

You could always try using a bucket (or two), on the Broads and I guess elsewhere a bucket on a line is used to keep a towed boat under control, like a sea anchor.

 

Phil

[luctor et emergo]

As I do a fair bit of reversing, the mudweight seems a good idea, but how well does it work going around corners?

[carlt]

but how well does it work going around corners?

It works great if you're snatching off a sunken shopping trolley.

[Grace and Favour]

As I do a fair bit of reversing, the mudweight seems a good idea, but how well does it work going around corners?

 

get a curved weight?

[J R]

As Starcoaster says, you don't have much control in astern and it's the bow that will wander and define in which direction the boat goes. So assuming you don't have a bow thruster, then your best bet is to look forward to see what the bow is doing with occasional glances back to see where you are going. When the bow starts to wander take the engine out of astern into neutral and then into forward using the rudder to correct the bow position, before going back into astern again, and so on... The manoeuvre is called "back and fill".

 

Good advice, and it works. Thing to remember is to be patient and not to put on too much speed in reverse. Practice makes perfect and it soon becomes second nature even in a wind.