Boats moored to close in Marina's

[Roxy]

I was just wandering why marinas are allowed to moor boats right next to another boat, I know that most caravan sites have to adhere to a rule that caravans must be a certain distance away from the next caravan due to fire hazard.

Im asking the above as I now have a boat moored right next to me and I dread to think if it was to catch fire or mine for that matter the outcome would not only 1 boat being destroyed but 2 and possibly the boat moored the otherside of the pontoon. We are all GRP cruisers moored here in our little patch and it certainly wouldnt take long for the whole lot to go up in smoke!

Look forward to your thoughts and comments

Rachel

[john6767]

That is a interesting point.

 

We used to have a static caravan, and they certainly do have to have a minimum spacing, something like 5m, as a fire break. You are also not supposed to have combustible materials around the caravan for the same reason.

 

I would expect that the presence of all the water feels like it makes a difference in the 2 situations, but it certainly would not stop file spreading between boats. In our marina the boats are in grousp of perhaps 20-30 with a promontory separating each group. So fire on one, unchecked, would certainly take out a whole group.

[bizzard]

I was just wandering why marinas are allowed to moor boats right next to another boat, I know that most caravan sites have to adhere to a rule that caravans must be a certain distance away from the next caravan due to fire hazard.

Im asking the above as I now have a boat moored right next to me and I dread to think if it was to catch fire or mine for that matter the outcome would not only 1 boat being destroyed but 2 and possibly the boat moored the otherside of the pontoon. We are all GRP cruisers moored here in our little patch and it certainly wouldnt take long for the whole lot to go up in smoke!

Look forward to your thoughts and comments

Rachel

I agree Rachel,the laws about this seem to be vague. Apart from the fire possibility,there is also a chance that if the boats are tied off on each other like some are here as we are not a marina with pontoons but moored along the bank inside of a lock island. And if one of them decides to sink it would probably take the other with it especially if the first boat to sink was larger.

Is yours actually tied to the boat alongside you?

Perhaps any marina owner on here can enlighten us with the safety laws on this.

 

PS.Indeed a 40' n/b did sink here last November,it was inside another n/b but luckily the outside boats ropes were long and passed around the boat that sank to the bank.

Mid stream here is 8-9'deep.Luckily the boat that sank was on the inside and sank in fairly shallow water,it took us a week to raise it in freezing conditions.

Reason for sinking,boat neglected,rain water ingress,weed hatch lid clamp broken,glug-glug-glug.

Edited December 3, 2011 by bizzard

[Ally]

Good point!....would love to hear a knowledgeable legal point of view ...anyone?

[alan_fincher]

Previous thread

 

We come back to the old chestnut that if you need a gap between you when moored, should boats sharing locks side by side also be banned!

[Alan de Enfield]

Should anyone 'in the know' reply re the mooring spacings - here is the Caravan situation :

 

Caravan Sites & Control Of development Act 1960

 

Density & Space Between caravans

The minimum spacing distance between caravans made of aluminium or other materials with similar fire performance properties shall be not less than 5 metres between units and 3.5 metres at the corners. For those with a plywood or similar skin it shall not be less than 6 metres. Where there is a mixture of caravans with aluminium and plywood the seperation distance shall again be 6 metres.

Blah, blah blah, ......."

 

When we opened our caravan site a couple of years ago we were informed that the 5mt rule was under discussion and would be increasing to 7 metres - we went for the 7 metre spacing "just in case".

 

As in probably most marinas our 'neighbour' is about 2 foot away on the 'water side of us and the other neighbour about 3 foot away on the other side of the 'finger' pontoon.

 

I have often wondered about the mooring spacings but never got around to asking about it - good question.

[bizzard]

Previous thread

 

We come back to the old chestnut that if you need a gap between you when moored, should boats sharing locks side by side also be banned!

This is only for a temporary 10 minute or so period of course, and both owners would or should be present,to oversee the operation.

[ditchcrawler]

Good point!....would love to hear a knowledgeable legal point of view ...anyone?

Is there actually any LAW or just something the caravan world thought would be a good idea, after all you don't need a BSC of equivalent for a caravan but the risks are similar or even greater'

 

Edit, OK I see there is a law, probably because sometime prior to 1968 caravan sites were popular and there were probably several fires, but do we really want a raft of mooring regulations brought in for moored boats. Marina owners having to reduce their occupancy by 50% twice as many marinas required charging twice the price. What about visitor moorings, we all complain when boaters don't share mooring rings so leaving gaps, or wont let You breast up at busy places.

Mind you don't open the box and let it all out.

Edited December 3, 2011 by ditchcrawler

[Alan de Enfield]

Is there actually any LAW or just something the caravan world thought would be a good idea, after all you don't need a BSC of equivalent for a caravan but the risks are similar or even greater

 

Well it is an act of Parliament so I guess that makes it 'law'.

 

An Act to make further provision for the licensing and control of caravan sites, to authorise local authorities to provide and operate caravan sites, to amend the law relating to enforcement notices and certain other notices issued under Part III of the Town and Country Planning Act 1947, to amend sections twenty-six and one hundred and three of that Act and to explain other provisions in the said Part III; and for connected purposes.

 

Correct - no BSC but you must (legally) have the gas and electical systems checked annualy by a qualified person and a safety certificate issued.

So its probably more 'arduous' than a BSC (well - more regularly anyway)

Edited December 3, 2011 by Alan de Enfield

[Graham Davis]

To add to the caravan side; from a programme on BBC Wales last week, the gap between mobile homes nows seems to be 7mtrs now.

[bizzard]

To be perfectly honest i've known far more boats to sink from neglect,than boats that catch fire. The only boat i've known to catch fire funnily enough was the boat that sank through neglect here described earlier, caused by arson, the previous owner had enemies when on its previous mooring in Harlow.It was fired and sunk on purpose,it was then bought cheaply, i raised it and towed it back here for the present owner who now neglects it. Twice i've raised that b----y boat,a good little earner though as Del boy would remark.

[Ally]

In the absence of a Marina owner contributing, who may know the legal position., I guess we have to assume there are no requirements for boat distances in a marina.

There is a big difference IMO, between boats permanently moored in a marina, and boats temporarily next to each other in a lock, or breasted up...yes, there is always potential of course, but as said, in those situations, it is firstly by personal choice,and risk, and there is also likely to be owners aboard or in the very near vacinity.

Marina moored boats are often unattended in many cases, with less of a density of 'liveaboards' or leisure boaters on board, so even if there is no legal stance, is there then a requirement for a marina to have someone available to move 'at risk' boats away from one on fire, should the worst happen? Of course on board boaters would do so anyway if able....but it is presumably the marinas responsibility? Or not?

Not as immediate an issue with steel hulled boats, but wood/GRP have a much increased risk I would think.

[duztee]

Possibly, most marina mooring is designated as leisure, not residential, so risks should be minimal, and therefore do not need the spacing imposed on caravan sites.

Also I would not like to think how high marina charges would be if every boat needed 5 mtrs of free space around it!

[jelunga]

Well it is an act of Parliament so I guess that makes it 'law'.

 

An Act to make further provision for the licensing and control of caravan sites, to authorise local authorities to provide and operate caravan sites, to amend the law relating to enforcement notices and certain other notices issued under Part III of the Town and Country Planning Act 1947, to amend sections twenty-six and one hundred and three of that Act and to explain other provisions in the said Part III; and for connected purposes.

 

Correct - no BSC but you must (legally) have the gas and electical systems checked annualy by a qualified person and a safety certificate issued.

So its probably more 'arduous' than a BSC (well - more regularly anyway)

I beg to differ here. The is no LAW to say you need gas and leccy systems checked annually. However it is recommended. Chech with the caravan club

[Travis]

Lets not get confused here. There's touring caravan pitches and static caravan pitches. Two different things.

 

I think statics are checked for gas/leccy safety on a regular basis, especially if they are rented out. I'm not aware of any law regarding touring caravan safety checks.

[DaveG]

In the absence of a Marina owner contributing, who may know the legal position., I guess we have to assume there are no requirements for boat distances in a marina.

 

Marina moored boats are often unattended in many cases, with less of a density of 'liveaboards' or leisure boaters on board, so even if there is no legal stance, is there then a requirement for a marina to have someone available to move 'at risk' boats away from one on fire, should the worst happen? Of course on board boaters would do so anyway if able....but it is presumably the marinas responsibility? Or not?

Not as immediate an issue with steel hulled boats, but wood/GRP have a much increased risk I would think.

 

I think your assumption must be correct - given that the majority of marinas have identical spacing plans between pontoons one has to assume these have been passed by the local planning authority and approved when subsequently inspected. This does not mean there isn't a risk, though - a boat caught fire at Yelvertoft marina last winter (one of several incidents around the network during the "big-freeze") after the owners' dog apparently knocked a cushion onto the stove whilst the owners were out. The fire also wrote off the two boats on either side. Fortunately, no one was hurt and the dog got out safely.

 

It does seem a "quirk" in the law - narrowboats, albeit steel hulled, are fitted out with an awful lot of flammable material. Having witnessed one burn myself it truly is a terrifying sight. Legit "residential" berths that I have seen at BWMLs marina in Bedford don't seem to be any different to the "leisure" berths.

[ditchcrawler]

 

Correct - no BSC but you must (legally) have the gas and electical systems checked annualy by a qualified person and a safety certificate issued.

So its probably more 'arduous' than a BSC (well - more regularly anyway)

Well I broke the law in ignorance for several years as I never had anyone check my caravan.

[Graham Davis]

The comment I made at #10 was about static caravan/mobile home pitches, and yes their services, if rented out, do require regular checks. Legislation does not require Touring caravans to be checked checking, but common sense says they should be. Both caravan Clubs suggest annually.

My Club specifies a gap between units of 6mtr at rallies.

[Alan de Enfield]

Yes - I was refering to Leisure use (Planning restriction to 11 months occupany) of static caravans / holiday homes.

 

Not touring caravans.

[Travis]

Going back to the OP, I wouldn't like to moor in a marina. Not only because of the fire risk but also mooring side by side only inches from the next boat is not for me.

[Mike Jordan]

As Duztee points out, if you had to have space it would lead to a huge increase in fees since the number of boats would be reduced.

In practice it would be more constructive to require boats to be moored with wire rope or chain when in the marina. What happens in a developed fire is that the mooring ropes soon burn through and the burning boat can then move about downwind like a viking funeral setting light to numbers of others. Add in a few gas cylinders in GRP boats and difficult access for the brigade and you have the makings of an entertaining day!

Mike

[Alan de Enfield]

.........the makings of an entertaining day!

Mike

 

Not for the boat owner, or his / her neighbours it wouldnt be !!!!

[14skipper]

As Duztee points out, if you had to have space it would lead to a huge increase in fees since the number of boats would be reduced.

In practice it would be more constructive to require boats to be moored with wire rope or chain when in the marina. What happens in a developed fire is that the mooring ropes soon burn through and the burning boat can then move about downwind like a viking funeral setting light to numbers of others. Add in a few gas cylinders in GRP boats and difficult access for the brigade and you have the makings of an entertaining day!

Mike

 

Can just see boat owner trying to move boat away from adjoining burning boat,when its tied up with wire ropes and chains.No thanks l will stick with rope and just cut lines with knife and move my boat out of harms way.

 

14skipper

[mrsmelly]

Going back to the OP, I wouldn't like to moor in a marina. Not only because of the fire risk but also mooring side by side only inches from the next boat is not for me.

 

Im with you on this one. The whole marina concept would for me be the pits although I may end up in one someday

[Guest]

Im with you on this one. The whole marina concept would for me be the pits although I may end up in one someday

 

It's a 'horses for courses' thing for sure.

 

Water and electricity on hand, elsan just a short walk rather than a boat ride way, a degree of security and easy access to your car.

 

When you leave your boat for days at a time like we do the ability to keep the batteries topped up and not worry about it's security is a positive.

 

If we ever tire of the close proximity of other boats we just pootle up to Woodlesford or down to Castleford... That said the boat to our right is unoccupied (It's for sale) and the boaters to our left are unobtrusive and friendly.

 

We would re-think if we ever live aboard 24/7 mind - not sure then if we could justify the cost of a marina mooring.