Tom Puddings

[Terence]

Hi all,

 

Does anyone know how Tom Puddings got their name? I assumed it was a persons name but I now beleive not.

 

cheers

[alan_fincher]

Hi all,

 

Does anyone know how Tom Puddings got their name? I assumed it was a persons name but I now beleive not.

 

cheers

Well there are the "Googled" explanations, for instance....

 

Like in"Goole on the Web" Linky this

 

They were locally known as 'Tom Puddings' ('Tom' meaning something large and 'Pudding' because they compartments looked like intestines or a string of sausages or black pudding) and consisted of long trains of compartments which could hold around 40 tons of coal each.

[carlt]

I always understood them to be named after Thomas Bartholomew and Yorkshire Puddings but, as Wikipedia agrees with me, I may have to do some more research.

[Mac of Cygnet]

Also, DAK where have they gone? The ones at Ferrybridge were taken away a few years ago, and I saw at least some of them near Kellingly Colliery (last year?) and a few at Castleford, but there were none at either place when I came past last month.

[carlt]

Also, DAK where have they gone? The ones at Ferrybridge were taken away a few years ago, and I saw at least some of them near Kellingly Colliery (last year?) and a few at Castleford, but there were none at either place when I came past last month.

Cut up and weighed in.

 

Goole Museum has a couple, plus a Jebus, and I know where there are a couple more but there are are not many left.

 

Also, DAK where have they gone? The ones at Ferrybridge were taken away a few years ago, and I saw at least some of them near Kellingly Colliery (last year?) and a few at Castleford, but there were none at either place when I came past last month.

Cut up and weighed in.

 

Goole Museum has a couple, plus a Jebus, and I know where there are a couple more but there are are not many left.

[magpie patrick]

Also, DAK where have they gone? The ones at Ferrybridge were taken away a few years ago, and I saw at least some of them near Kellingly Colliery (last year?) and a few at Castleford, but there were none at either place when I came past last month.

 

Those were the replacement pans, not real Tom Puddings which looked like this

 

 

the pans were pushed rather than pulled and each pan carried a much bigger load. Unlike Tom Puddings, the pans were never unloaded into ships at Goole

 

At the last count, Hargreaves still owned the pans and were looking for work for them, some were adapted for another traffic by having a combing put on the other side. Both pans and Tom Puddings lacked combings on one side so that the coal could be emptied out when they were upended.

[carlt]

Those were the replacement pans, not real Tom Puddings which looked like this

 

Ahh...but there'd be those that argue that a genuine Tom Pudding shouldn't have coamings at all.

[Terence]

Like in"Goole on the Web" Linky this

 

A superb link and the Pathe clip fascinating.

Tom meaning Big and Pudding a string on sausages.

Many thanks

 

I always understood them to be named after Thomas Bartholomew and Yorkshire Puddings but, as Wikipedia agrees with me, I may have to do some more research.

 

This was also my thought.

 

Terence

[magpie patrick]

Ahh...but there'd be those that argue that a genuine Tom Pudding shouldn't have coamings at all.

 

well if you mean a pudding tin I suppose so!

[carlt]

well if you mean a pudding tin I suppose so!

No I now of some tug captains who sneered at the Tom Puddings with coamings because they weren't dedicated coal boats.

 

I suspect it had a lot to do with them being forced to carry other cargoes rather than purism, though.

[Pluto]

You need to read the book 'Railway on the Water' by Harold Crabtree, though I edited and extended his work before publication. I think the Yorkshire Waterways Museum will still have some copies.

 

Regarding the name, Warde-Aldam, the A&CN Chairman, wrote in his notes shortly after they were introduced that '... the people now call them Tom Puddings from their wobbling gait...' Anyone who has had to move an empty one would understand!

 

A few new ones were fitted with coamings towards the end of the nineteenth century when trials were carried out using them for carrying general cargo, and some of the last ones to be built also had coamings as they were designed for carrying pitch, which needed to be kept dry.

 

I think there are five surviving, four at Goole, and there used to be one adapted for piling at Stainforth.

[magpie patrick]

clearly I'm getting my terminology wrong, I was referring to the shelf down one side, not something you could fit a cover to

[Pluto]

clearly I'm getting my terminology wrong, I was referring to the shelf down one side, not something you could fit a cover to

That was for walking along when they were in a train. They had on the 'upper' side before lifting and emptying. The coamings were as per a conventional boat.

[carlt]

clearly I'm getting my terminology wrong, I was referring to the shelf down one side, not something you could fit a cover to

The coamings I was referring to were the raised sloping rims, enabling the hold to be sheeted up.

 

The boats in the other picture (of Goole museum) have no such coamings.

 

 

I think there are five surviving, four at Goole, and there used to be one adapted for piling at Stainforth.

There were two at Waddingtons yard, last time I was there, but he has been very gas axe happy, of late.

[magpie patrick]

Okay, so let me amend my statement

At the last count, Hargreaves still owned the modern pans and were looking for work for them, some were adapted for another traffic by having coamings fitted and I believe a second walkway added a combing put on the other side. Both pans and Tom Puddings lacked combings walkways on one side so that the coal could be emptied out when they were upended.

 

That is taken from a discussion with Hargreaves a couple of years ago when I was trying to find boats that could carry biomass in the form of olive cake. The traffic never materialised sadly

 

Fascinating, I never knew the originals carried anything other than coal, and had not noticed until this was pointed out that some of the Tom Puddings in the picture I posted appear to have coamings and some do not

Edited September 21, 2011 by magpie patrick

[Laurence Hogg]

Of interest to this topic. The "Tom Puddings" were still of possible interest to D&IWE in the late 1950's as this photo may show. It is the Docks and Inland Waterways Executive research facility at Bull Bridge. A model of which may be a new jebus design is under test. Note Sir Frank Price looking on second from the left.

 

Edited September 21, 2011 by Laurence Hogg

[Pluto]

The last Tom Puddings were built in 1974/5, when eleven were delivered, while over 200 were built in the 1960s. Five new tugs, including Wheldale which is preserved at Goole, were built 1957/8, and the photo looks like their design stage as they were flat bottomed.

 

On coamings, this photo shows Tom Puddings loaded with steel wire in coils. The one on the right nearest the camera is one of those built with coamings. There was a design for a longer version for use between Leeds and the Humber ports, predating BACAT operation by many years.

[greywolf]

Did they have nobody on the them besides the tug in case things went wrong.I am thinking of the joeys on the bcn when towed in line had a steerer on the last on.Probably a silly question.

[carlt]

Did they have nobody on the them besides the tug in case things went wrong.

No but they had the occasional school boy, blagging lifts, who they used to let steer a 17 boat train.

[Pluto]

Did they have nobody on the them besides the tug in case things went wrong.I am thinking of the joeys on the bcn when towed in line had a steerer on the last on.Probably a silly question.

The original design was for them to be pushed in groups of eight to ten, and the steering included chains down either side so that the 'train' could be bent in the relevant direction from the tug. Subsequently they were towed without a steerer at the back, a standard train having 21 Tom Puddings. They were chained together and towing kept them in line, though they would tend to veer off away from whichever side the wind was blowing from. When passing them, it was best to consider the wind before deciding on which side to pass!

 

Edited after seeing Carl's note to say that 21 was the usual number on the A&CN, with 17 being the number coming from Doncaster down the New Junction. It depended upon how a train would fit into the locks.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Pluto

[greywolf]

SO though unlikely to happen it would be possible to have a canal boat that could be lifted off the canal and onto a flatbed,similar to a container for onward shipment.It does seem like a very good attempt to compete with other forms of traffic and yet it did not work.

[carlt]

It does seem like a very good attempt to compete with other forms of traffic and yet it did not work.

It didn't work because of lack of maintenance, by BW, after the Dockworkers killed off the BACAT and LASH projects.

[Terence]

It depended upon how a train would fit into the locks.

 

Some fascinating stuff here. This was to be my next question. I assume the locks were huge, how many Tom Puddings at a time and 'how'.

 

Cheers.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

Under the coal chute at Goole there used to be a dummy bow section to reduce the resistance of the tom pudding train.

[RLWP]

Under the coal chute at Goole there used to be a dummy bow section to reduce the resistance of the tom pudding train.

 

That's a Jebus, Carl mentioned them earlier:

 

 

Richard