anchor

[Ange]

If the engine has packed up,being at the controls won't make a scrap of difference,the boats totally at the mercy of the elements until you get that anchor down. bizzard.

 

Is true but I'd still rather be on the deck rather than inside the boat. Forgive me if I'm being totally ignorant (truly) but wouldn't the tiller still make a bit of difference even if the engine wasn't working?

Edited September 21, 2011 by Ange

[bizzard]

Is true but I'd still rather be on the deck rather than inside the boat. Forgive me if I'm being totally ignorant (truly) but wouldn't the tiller still make a bit of difference even if the engine wasn't working?

If the boat was drifting with a current none whatsoever.But if the boat is being blown along it might make a slight difference if waggled from side to side,as indeed a sailing boats rudder responds to the forward motion of the boat through the water only, driven by its sails. A motorboats rudder relies soley on forward motion provided by the engines propeller thrust wash. bizzard.

[carlt]

Forgive me if I'm being totally ignorant (truly) but wouldn't the tiller still make a bit of difference even if the engine wasn't working?

Not much, in current but, as long as you are not wasting time running through the boat, which requires some concentration, you are aware of what is happening to your boat and its position, on the water, enabling you to concentrate on deploying the anchor safely.

 

If the boat turns, because there is no power, and the anchor then needs to be deployed from the stern, there are only 2 quick and safe ways to achieve this: Have an anchor at either end, fore and aft, or have the bitter end secured at the bow and the anchor within reach of the helmsman.

[bizzard]

Not much, in current but, as long as you are not wasting time running through the boat, which requires some concentration, you are aware of what is happening to your boat and its position, on the water, enabling you to concentrate on deploying the anchor safely.

 

If the boat turns, because there is no power, and the anchor then needs to be deployed from the stern, there are only 2 quick and safe ways to achieve this: Have an anchor at either end, fore and aft, or have the bitter end secured at the bow and the anchor within reach of the helmsman.

A bundle of engineering bricks,the ones with holes in, all threaded on a rope make good drags, slower upperers or mud weights.

 

Not much, in current but, as long as you are not wasting time running through the boat, which requires some concentration, you are aware of what is happening to your boat and its position, on the water, enabling you to concentrate on deploying the anchor safely.

 

If the boat turns, because there is no power, and the anchor then needs to be deployed from the stern, there are only 2 quick and safe ways to achieve this: Have an anchor at either end, fore and aft, or have the bitter end secured at the bow and the anchor within reach of the helmsman.

A bundle of engineering bricks,the ones with holes in, all threaded on a rope make good drags, slower upperers or mud weights.

[by'eck]

Out of interest how does your average flat bottomed narrowboat lie in open water in relation to the wind?

 

Most keel boats lie stern too as the bows overhang the underwater keel causing the boats hull to act like a flag in the wind.

[bizzard]

Out of interest how does your average flat bottomed narrowboat lie in open water in relation to the wind?

 

Most keel boats lie stern too as the bows overhang the underwater keel causing the boats hull to act like a flag in the wind.

Mostly stern to to,especially cruiser stern boats the flag effect.bizzard

[blackrose]

I was assuming that the anchor is attached to the front for the reasons you give, but with the rope run back and the anchor kept at the back where it is ready to deploy quickly. As you say, the boat will then swing round so that the front is facing the current. My point is that which side you drop it from makes no difference to this process.

 

Surely it does make a difference? For example let's say you are travelling downstream on a narrowboat on a tidal river with your anchor attached to the bow and you take the anchor to the stern so that you can deploy it quickly, with the rode running along the starboard side of the cabin roof. Depending on the length and furniture on the roof of your boat, you are then most likely to deploy the anchor on the starboard side of the boat unlusss you are very confident of being able to quickly switch sides that the rode lays on the roof. I wouldn't do that on my boat because without physically getting on the roof I'm sure the rode would probably get caught on a mushroom vent despite my best rope swinging efforts.

 

So you deploy the bow anchor (from the stern) off the starboard side of the boat and when the anchor bites the boat will swing around with the bow turning to starboard to face the current. If you deployed the anchor off the port side the bow would swing around to port.

 

Therefore on a narrowboat, when one takes a bow anchor to the stern for quick deployment, one has to know in advance which side of the boat they wish to deploy it from and which way they would like their boat to swing around to face the current (assuming they are travelling with the current). For this reason I think I will keep my bow anchor at the bow and my stern anchor at the stern.

Edited September 22, 2011 by blackrose

[Chertsey]

There is one big factor which has only been hinted at: narrow boats are not designed to be anchored. So any deployment is likely to be in a dire emergency. How bad would it have to be to take the chances that Alan points out? In what situation, on a nb, would you deploy the anchor, and what other action might you take first?

[Old Son]

In addition to my 27Kg anchor I would also have 20M of 10mm chain and a 20M warp. If it were all laid on the roof so I could deploy and the tide was running quite fast, I think I would have to agree with Alan that there would be a real chance that either anything the anchor is tied back to would be ripped off or the warp or a shackle would break. Surely you would need to pay the warp out as best you can to avoid the 'snatch'?

 

I am proposing to hang my anchor on the side of my boat by two small ropes. The anchor will rest on a large inflatable fender. The anchor will be tied off to the boat. In case of emergency I would run through the boat and cut the two small ropes, anchor deployed.

 

I have timed myself though the boat to the bow and it takes 3 seconds!!!

[FadeToScarlet]

You can buy rubber devices (oh-err!) to stop mooring ropes snatching. Could you put one on your anchor rode so there's much less of a sudden, T-stud removing jerk?

[bizzard]

The only time you would really have to use an anchor would be on a tideway with engine or propulsion trouble or on a river in flood and the boats being taken by the current,wind or both towards danger, a weir for example again with propulsion trouble or engine not powerful enough,or rudder broken, to stem it.

Of course you would know roughly how deep the water is that your sailing on,so you would have several times that amount of cable'chain ready.ideally in an emergency dump it fast and the weight and length of it will not cause much of a snatch.If you don't think that your T stud or bollard is very strong take one turn with the your end of the cable around it and pay it out by feel. But if you have time lower it all hand over hand. You'd have to extract it like that anyway unless you have a winch.

My term 'cable'means rope,chain,wire whatever your using.

Practice deploying an anchor and cable beforehand if going on tidal or fast flowing rivers. bizzard.

[luctor et emergo]

If you worry that your choosen attatchment point - viz a T-stud - is not strong enough to take the strain, should you be using that point at all?

 

And where do river dwellers store the dingy?

[bizzard]

If you worry that your choosen attatchment point - viz a T-stud - is not strong enough to take the strain, should you be using that point at all?

 

And where do river dwellers store the dingy?

Use an Elsan or a big Wok as a lifeboat. bizzard.

[MtB]

We had a 25kG plough anchor on our last narrowboat, which, as an experiment in mooring on the Thames, we tied to the bow line and dropped it in.

 

I'd estimate the water was about 6 to 8ft feet deep and the bow line about 40ft long, and the current was gentle. The anchor almost held the boat but after half an hour we were 100yds downstream of where we started the experiment.

 

We concluded we probably needed a length of weighty chain to make the anchor work properly so we concluded that anchor-mooring on the Thames was more trouble that it's worth.

 

I also concuded that due to anchor drag and the lifting effect on the chain as the line tightens, the snatch when an anchor bites when used in an emergency on the Thames is likely to very mild and not worth worrying about.

[Chertsey]

OK, this might be a silly question, but if you do have a good length of chain and rope, what are the chances of the anchor, even if it works perfectly, not stopping you before you get to the weir?

[Guest]

Thinking about the hole anchor deployment thing I can see the advantages of what Carl and others are advocating but hasn't it also been said on here the anchor on a narrowboat should only ever be deployed from the bow anyway as this should only ever be the part of the boat pointing into the current when it is being held at anchor??

[bizzard]

We had a 25kG plough anchor on our last narrowboat, which, as an experiment in mooring on the Thames, we tied to the bow line and dropped it in.

 

I'd estimate the water was about 6 to 8ft feet deep and the bow line about 40ft long, and the current was gentle. The anchor almost held the boat but after half an hour we were 100yds downstream of where we started the experiment.

 

We concluded we probably needed a length of weighty chain to make the anchor work properly so we concluded that anchor-mooring on the Thames was more trouble that it's worth.

 

I also concuded that due to anchor drag and the lifting effect on the chain as the line tightens, the snatch when an anchor bites when used in an emergency on the Thames is likely to very mild and not worth worrying about.

Thats it,ideally all chain,A Danforth anchor would be better than an CQR plough type anchor.

[Guest]

OK, this might be a silly question, but if you do have a good length of chain and rope, what are the chances of the anchor, even if it works perfectly, not stopping you before you get to the weir?

 

I would say that fully depends on the size and weight in relation to the boat - some of the 'mickey mouse' types I have seen on NB's would stand no chance of brining a big steel NB to a halt.

[Chertsey]

Thinking about the hole anchor deployment thing I can see the advantages of what Carl and others are advocating but hasn't it also been said on here the anchor on a narrowboat should only ever be deployed from the bow anyway as this should only ever be the part of the boat pointing into the current when it is being held at anchor??

That means it should be attached to the bow. We were arguing about where it should/could be chucked in from.

 

I would say that fully depends on the size and weight in relation to the boat - some of the 'mickey mouse' types I have seen on NB's would stand no chance of brining a big steel NB to a halt.

No, that's not what I meant. I said IF it works perfectly. Would too long a rope put you in danger of it not holding you back even if the anchor bit perfectly? How to calculate the right amount for a river with varying depths.

[bizzard]

OK, this might be a silly question, but if you do have a good length of chain and rope, what are the chances of the anchor, even if it works perfectly, not stopping you before you get to the weir?

Fend off the weir with your pole,shout for help or abandon ship.

[Guest]

That means it should be attached to the bow. We were arguing about where it should/could be chucked in from.

 

No, that's not what I meant. I said IF it works perfectly. Would too long a rope put you in danger of it not holding you back even if the anchor bit perfectly? How to calculate the right amount for a river with varying depths.

 

Apols. my bad - I read a couple of posts above as it should by tied to the stern.

 

As to the second bit yes then I would say there is a very good chance that on somewhere like the Soar which is narrower and presumably shallower than say the Thames that your boat could come unstuck across a weir or up again a bridge pier before all the rope and chain has actually fully played out.

 

 

ETA - I suppose in an ideal world you would tie off at different lengths depending on which waterway you were on - but given calculating that incorrectly could end up with the anchor being rendered completely ineffective ie just dangling over the side.

Edited September 22, 2011 by MJG

[alan_fincher]

I'm not at all sure that even on the tidal Thames through London, bridge piers and the like might not quickly become a major hazard.

 

Also unlike others, I am not convinced that the "snatch" effect of a long length of rope suddenly running out would be something not to worry about. I reckon when we have been on there the tide is easily at 4mph in places, so even if the boat has lost all it' own momentum, (so doing "just" 4mph over land, rather than a full 8mph relative to land), I would have thought trying to suddenly stop even our relatively light boat dead at 4mp relative to the ground might be quite dramatic.

 

(I have witnessed a failed attempt to strap "Sickle" at well less than half this speed. where the rope got caught and failed to play out around a bollard - all I can say is thank goodness nobody was in the way when it broke).

 

I'm not sure the last time it got discussed if anybody could reach anything like concensus on the greatest depth you might find in the Thames down Limehouse way ? My guess is that very few narrow boats who think they have an anchor available there have actually got enough combined length of chain and rope to be any use. I'm fully prepared to admit we may be in that category, but I bet most are.

[Guest]

Also unlike others, I am not convinced that the "snatch" effect of a long length of rope suddenly running out would be something not to worry about.

 

This concerns me after the last time it came up on here but given the T stud is our only option at the bow we struggle to think of where else it could be fastened... there just is nothing else.

 

I just hope Colecraft have built enough 'reserve' into the way ours is designed and fastened to be able to take the very sudden inevitable strain it would be subject to if required..... do they make and fasten these things with that use in mind I wonder or are they purely thought of as devices to moor and tow a boat...

[alan_fincher]

Many T-studs are just a cast item that is welded around their base to the plate on which they sit.

 

(Look in a well stocked chandlers, and you will see that they just sport a flat cast base of maybe 3 cms diameter - they don't "fasten through" anything.)

 

I have seen several boats over the years where the weld has failed.

 

Of course many, particularly (probably) older ones, are bolted through, with a substantial thread below the decking. Ideally these would have a broad plate underneath the spread the load, I'd say.

 

Unless you investigate, I'm not sure it's possible to say what you have, but if it does depend on the ability of a welder to weld cast iron to steel plate, I think it will probably be as good as that particular welders skills!

 

Its easy people saying "if you don't have a better attachment point you shouldn't be on the river", but I'm rather guessing that many people haven't got anything a lot more secure than standard T-studs or dollies.

 

Perhaps that's is what those much discussed rings on the cabin fronts of Hudson (and similar) boats are for. (EDITED TO ADD: For avoidance of doubt, I'm not being serious - A good way of tipping the boat over if it held - which it probably wouldn't as they are also just welded on - the rivets not being rivets!)

 

A thought.....

 

Many of the GUCCCo boats built in the 1930s are claimed to have had deeper hull sides to allow them to venture out onto the river. Middle Northwiches like Sickle are even said to have had their rounded chines and slightly V-ed bottom for estuary work......

 

Do the inventories of these boats on gauging sheets and the like include anchors ? I can't say I ever remember seeing one mentioned!

Edited September 22, 2011 by alan_fincher

[Old Son]

I am very lucky that I have got a welded post on my bow, about 100mm diameter so that should be strong enough. I have also fitted a 50mm stainless steel eye bolted through the front deck which would provide a secondry fixing.

 

I bought my anchor from a 'pilot' who appeared to have a lot of experience of working on the Thames. It was he who informed me that 15-20M of 10mm chain plus 20M of warp attached to a 60Ib anchor would hold 20-25 Tons of boat on inland waters.

 

He has some software on his phone that showed the depths and high tide levels at various points along all the navigable rivers and off shore areas around UK.