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Inverters!

lewisericeric

By lewisericeric
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lewisericeric Rising Star

lewisericeric

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Well that's a daft post isn't it? Anyone is free to offer advice on this forum but if that advice is a bit iffy in parts then it's open to criticism, constructive or otherwiseIf you don't want others contributing then why don't you PM DeanS and just listen to his advice?

 

I don't see anyone being incredibly offensive, maybe a bit pedantic but often that is necessary to clear any confusion, as for bluntness I prefer that to confusion.

 

 

Anyone can offer advice yes, but it should be constructive and not "otherwise" as there's no need to be offensive, nasty, aggressive or pedantic.

 

I didn't PM Dean as i'd never spoken to him before now and i'm not stating that just because DeanS advice "suits" me more that Im taking it, but what I AM saying is that there's no need for the sarcasm, being pedantic, offensive and rude.

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mayalld Veteran II

mayalld

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Anyone can offer advice yes, but it should be constructive and not "otherwise" as there's no need to be offensive, nasty, aggressive or pedantic.

 

Actually, when somebody persists in offering advice that is dangerously wide of the mark, in the face of others saying "you are wrong". it does actually become necessary to be forthright in condemning that advice.

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DeanS Veteran II

DeanS

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So, from your extensive experience of buying ONE inverter, you conclude that they all come with appropriate cables.

When did I conclude that? At no time did I tell the OP what type of cabling to use. At some point I presumed he would ask, IF he wanted to do the installation himself.

Some inverters are supplied with cables. Some are supplied without.

Really?

You clearly don't know how to determine cable sizing. You clearly don't appreciate that cable length is a vital factor in selecting correct cables.

I was assuming that the invertor would be installed next to the batteries, not at the other end of the boat. If your's is installed at the other end of the boat, have you considered moving it closer to your battery to do away with voltage drop?

 

You seem to think that having multiple cables splits the load over those cables, and allows you to use two smaller cables (you can't. it is dangerous to do so).

I used the cables which were supplied by the invertor supplier. I dont remember being very specific as to their sizes. I'd have thought it was logical that any cable used should be able to cope with any current it is designed to carry.

 

You then commit a classic error about current calculations. Yes, a 50W bulb will draw 0.2A at 240V, but in order to supply that 0.2A, and inverter will have to draw 4A from the 12V side.

Yes Dave. I was talking about the cables through the boat...THEY would be THINNER...and the current flow through the boat would be LESS.....

 

There is a nicer way of being helpful..What you do is...you address the OP, with helpful information...rather than slating the guy who is trying to offer him helpful information. Get it? We're trying to help the OP....We're not trying to eat each other. I thought that was obvious.?

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Robin2 Rising Star

Robin2

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Blunt, yes.

 

Offensive, no.

 

Where somebody is offering advice that is potentially dangerous, it is important to say so unambiguously. Beating about the bush fails to emphasise that the advice is sufficiently poor as to be dangerous.

 

 

 

So, from your extensive experience of buying ONE inverter, you conclude that they all come with appropriate cables.

 

CLUE: They don't!

 

Some inverters are supplied with cables. Some are supplied without.

 

You clearly don't know how to determine cable sizing. You clearly don't appreciate that cable length is a vital factor in selecting correct cables.

 

You seem to think that having multiple cables splits the load over those cables, and allows you to use two smaller cables (you can't. it is dangerous to do so).

 

You then commit a classic error about current calculations. Yes, a 50W bulb will draw 0.2A at 240V, but in order to supply that 0.2A, and inverter will have to draw 4A from the 12V side.

 

My Sterling inverter "manual" says "One cable is always best but, cable is simply copper ... ,so it does not matter if it is one cable or 10 cables as long as the square area adds up."

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Gibbo Veteran II

Gibbo

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My Sterling inverter "manual" says "One cable is always best but, cable is simply copper ... ,so it does not matter if it is one cable or 10 cables as long as the square area adds up."

 

The problem with using twin cables comes when you try to work out how to fuse them.

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DeanS Veteran II

DeanS

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Actually, when somebody persists in offering advice that is dangerously wide of the mark, in the face of others saying "you are wrong". it does actually become necessary to be forthright in condemning that advice.

 

 

Advice by Dean was....

 

An invertor has 3 wires. Red Black and Earth.

You can install the Red Black yourself , but get a sparky to check the earthing wire.

Please explain what is so dangerously wide off the mark about that? Yes you need to make sure you have the right red/black cable size. OBVIOUSLY.

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mayalld Veteran II

mayalld

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When did I conclude that? At no time did I tell the OP what type of cabling to use. At some point I presumed he would ask, IF he wanted to do the installation himself.

 

Really?

 

You stated that inverters come with cables. You were wrong. Some do not come with cables. Those that come with cables tend to have a red cable and a black cable. They don't come with fuses or 12v isolators, or the necessary tails to connect the fuse and isolator between battery and the supplied cable.

 

 

I was assuming that the invertor would be installed next to the batteries, not at the other end of the boat. If your's is installed at the other end of the boat, have you considered moving it closer to your battery to do away with voltage drop?

 

It isn't about being at the other end of the boat. It is about understanding that 1m cable runs and 1.5m cable runs can make a huge difference to the cable sizing,

 

I used the cables which were supplied by the invertor supplier. I dont remember being very specific as to their sizes. I'd have thought it was logical that any cable used should be able to cope with any current it is designed to carry.

 

 

So, you have no idea if your cables are OK.

 

There is a nicer way of being helpful..What you do is...you address the OP, with helpful information...rather than slating the guy who is trying to offer him helpful information. Get it? We're trying to help the OP....We're not trying to eat each other. I thought that was obvious.?

 

The fact that you are supplying incorrect information IS helpful information.

 

I'm sure that you are posting from a genuine wish to help the OP, but you are posting bad advice.

 

Advice by Dean was....

 

An invertor has 3 wires. Red Black and Earth.

You can install the Red Black yourself , but get a sparky to check the earthing wire.

Please explain what is so dangerously wide off the mark about that? Yes you need to make sure you have the right red/black cable size. OBVIOUSLY.

 

The OP made it clear that he was a novice, so it may be far from obvious to him about checking size.

 

Given that you can't even answer the question about cable sizes, how would a novice know whether they are the right size?

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DeanS Veteran II

DeanS

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You stated that inverters come with cables. You were wrong. Some do not come with cables. Those that come with cables tend to have a red cable and a black cable. They don't come with fuses or 12v isolators, or the necessary tails to connect the fuse and isolator between battery and the supplied cable.

 

If he received an invertor without cables, I expected him to come back to the forum and ask about cables.

It isn't about being at the other end of the boat. It is about understanding that 1m cable runs and 1.5m cable runs can make a huge difference to the cable sizing,

Again, if it didnt come with cables, I expected him to come on the forum, where knowledgeable helpful people like yourself, would offer him all of the info he needs to install the correct cables.

 

 

So, you have no idea if your cables are OK.

My invertor cables are substantially large and half a meter long. They will do fine thanks.

 

 

The fact that you are supplying incorrect information

I'm sure that you are posting from a genuine wish to help the OP, but you are posting bad advice.

 

I still dont quite understand what incorrect information you are referring to. Perhaps not enough specifics, but the entire post was more of a "method" discussion, whereas you and others have considered it a "how to install" discussion. None of my advice was at a technical level...simply offering the OP a way to connect an invertor without forking out hundreds of pounds.

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GUMPY Veteran II

GUMPYDonate to Canal World

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Mr Blunt here

 

I know how it should be done as do several others on here, none of whom have posted the way to do it.

I now rarely post on how to do things as there is an implied liablility if someone uses my instructions and kills themselves.

Sad I know but better to be safe.

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DeanS Veteran II

DeanS

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Mr Blunt here

 

I know how it should be done as do several others on here, none of whom have posted the way to do it.

I now rarely post on how to do things as there is an implied liablility if someone uses my instructions and kills themselves.

Sad I know but better to be safe.

 

 

Was I not blunt enough in post 9 and post 20, where I put a disclaimer BEFORE offering any DIY advice :) I TOLD the OP to get someone to do it for him, and in all instances I TOLD the OP not to mess with earthing as it was a safety feature. I think some people didnt bother reading my earlier posts :)

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Theo Veteran

TheoDonate to Canal World

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Just wait until Dave Mayall hits the single malts around Christmas week.

 

Allo, allo, allo!

 

I am keeping my beady eye on all this.

 

:rolleyes:

 

N

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