Mooring in really stupid places

[alan_fincher]

I should have not included 'on here' - it should have read.

 

Because sometimes I think some owners of historic boats come across as - 'make way, make way, historic boat coming through'.

 

Just an impression I have had sometimes when out on the cut.

 

OK, agree with that, to some extent.....

 

I can name a couple I think fit what you are saying, (I'll not "name and shame", though!), and I think it's a great pity.

 

I think however it is possible to find elitist attitudes amongst all kinds of different categories of boaters though. This may be (some of) the shiny boat fake rivet brigade, but equally it may be someone tied up (badly) on a really scruffy live-aboard that never moves, who thinks they have greater claim to the canals because they live on them, than those of us that just boat on them.

 

I think working boat owners are much like most others. 95% probably have OK attitudes, but there is maybe 5% of "hard core" types that can earn the well behaved ones a bad name.

[Guest]

Yeah but!.......

 

You have some choice about your line through a bridge if the canal through the bridge is wider than the boat is.

 

But on bridges that are little more than boat width, a 70 footer will need something approaching "140 foot plus bridge-hole length" of near straight line travel to get through - well a bit less, obviously, due to the pointy bit at the front, and the round bit at the rear, but really it's not that far short of needing a straight line approach in, and a straight line exit out.

 

(Obviously I am only talking "tight" bridges - the more usable width there is above boat width, the more option you have to angle it in there a bit.)

 

The issue comes if you really do need nearly "2 times boat length plus bridge length", and someone is "parked" in the water you need.

 

Well actually it is worse than that - because even if someone is moored more than 70 foot from a bridge, but on the outside of a bend, you still have to be able to get around them too, suddenly faced with 7 foot less usable width than ideally there should have been.

 

It does raise the question again then about official long and short term moorings that are on bends or very close to bridge holes, there are huge numbers of them on the system, what would happen I wonder if these were scrapped and removed on the basis that it causes an issue for 70 footers...??

 

I think however it is possible to find elitist attitudes amongst all kinds of different categories of boaters though.

 

Agree with that-

 

however it is somehow more intimidating when it's a 'very high in the water unladen boat' coming your way, I know it has been suggested before that a metal riveted boat would come off worse in a collision with a welded steel one - I wouldn't like to test it though.

 

There are still a fair few on the Broads

 

Indeed - the one we hired though wasn't a wooden one -

 

 

Great little boats.

[magpie patrick]

 

however it is somehow more intimidating when it's a 'very high in the water unladen boat' coming your way, I know it has been suggested before that a metal riveted boat would come off worse in a collision with a welded steel one - I wouldn't like to test it though.

 

Imagine if someone with vintage road roller or traction engine decided to lord it over the carriageway

 

(for the avoidance of doubt, I am not accusing Laurence of "lording it", I am pleased he is keeping an historic working boat in gainful use)

[Bullfrog]

I can name a couple I think fit what you are saying, (I'll not "name and shame", though!), and I think it's a great pity.

 

We followed a pair down the Stoke Bruerne flight of locks last week, members of the HNBOC.

 

Left all bottom gates open and paddles up, and when they got to the bottom, parked the pair on the lock landing and buggered off, even though there was lots of room further down.

 

Not impressed.

 

David

[alan_fincher]

I know it has been suggested before that a metal riveted boat would come off worse in a collision with a welded steel one - I wouldn't like to test it though.

It's a theory, and frankly I'd not care to test it either!

 

Sickle, having been converted to an ice breaker in 1942, has all it's front end plates doubled up, with a second layer riveted behind the first.

 

I don't actually think it would lose too many "ramming" battles, and for that reason I do try and ensure within my capabilities that it doesn't get into any.

 

However we are all only as good as the skills we have so far developed, so if I am put onto the mud on the right hand side, by an oncoming boat, with the result that I stick at the back end, and the front end swings across to the left bank, then if a second oncoming boat was following the first too closely, and unable to stop, there could be a big bump.

 

It hasn't quite happened yet, but have come very close a couple of times. So - who would be at fault ? The owner of the working boat, that has effectively been rendered "static", but "not in control", or the oncoming boat who was "on the correct side of the canal", but couldn't actually stop in time ?

[Laurence Hogg]

[however it is somehow more intimidating when it's a 'very high in the water unladen boat' coming your way, I know it has been suggested before that a metal riveted boat would come off worse in a collision with a welded steel one - I wouldn't like to test it though.]

 

I can answer this as it happened to us in June on the Staffs & Worcs.

We were cautiously rounding Auscliffe rock having sounded off when a Viking Afloat hire boat appeared at some speed. Our steerer (A senior BW manager) reacted swiftly and stopped Barnet. The hire boat didnt slow at all and hit us in the bow hard enough to send one of the crew off his feet. the hire boat then smashed into the rock face and back into us. He didnt stop even then and continued forward forcing his boat between us and the rock face, it was unbelievable to see, as he was clearly damaging the boat. after passing the stern we asked him if he was alright and wanted to stop, he just waved and carried on bouncing into and through the next bridge.

We were all a bit shook up and on inspection he had put a good dent into the bow, complete with the paint off the side. So yes a rivetted hull can get damaged.

All this is recorded on film as I was filming the route for a new release on the Droitwich ring.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Laurence Hogg

[Nickhlx]

[however it is somehow more intimidating when it's a 'very high in the water unladen boat' coming your way, I know it has been suggested before that a metal riveted boat would come off worse in a collision with a welded steel one - I wouldn't like to test it though.]

 

I can answer this as it happened to us in June on the Staffs & Worcs.

We were cautiously rounding Auscliffe rock having sounded off when a Viking Afloat hire boat appeared at some speed. Our steerer (A senior BW manager) reacted swiftly and stopped Barnet. The hire boat didnt slow at all and hit us in the bow hard enough to send one of the crew off his feet. the hire boat then smashed into the rock face and back into us. He didnt stop even then and continued forward forcing his boat between us and the rock face, it was unbelievable to see, as he was clearly damaging the boat. after passing the stern we asked him if he was alright and wanted to stop, he just waved and carried on bouncing into and through the next bridge.

We were all a bit shook up and on inspection he had put a good dent into the bow, complete with the paint off the side. So yes a rivetted hull can get damaged.

All this is recorded on film as I was filming the route for a new release on the Droitwich ring.

 

Sounds a bit terrifying to me - will we get to see the film ?

 

Nick

[Laurence Hogg]

Sounds a bit terrifying to me - will we get to see the film ?

 

Nick

 

I may include the impact then cut, some of the audio following it is a bit "near the mark" as one would expect, no one could believe his actions of not slowing.

[cotswoldsman]

I should have not included 'on here' - it should have read.

 

Because sometimes I think some owners of historic boats come across as - 'make way, make way, historic boat coming through'.

 

Just an impression I have had sometimes when out on the cut.

 

I can understand that impression, though I have met some owners of historic boats that are the opposite. Unfortunately some think that everyone should be interested in the history of the Canals and even think they are the only ones who do know the history. (some are not even owners of the boats but think they can be superior to every one else.

 

people need to realize that waterways traditions arent just about types of boat, roses & castles etc but about the way of life and how it was conducted. I do wish these people would learn about the heritage they choose to play or live on before condemning practices that have evolved out of that very heritage, I wonder if Romarni123 and others ever wonder WHY BW still put strapping posts on lock gates - thats assuming they know what they are!

[twbm]

It's not an excuse, but in addition to all the other handling issues discussed here, it's as well to remember that not all traditional ex/current commercial boats have easy access to reverse gear, and it's not called hit and miss timing for nothing.

 

If any one wants to experience handling a full length, laden, motor boat and butty please get in touch.

 

Edited, 'cause what I put first was wrong..

Edited July 27, 2011 by twbm

[Laurence Hogg]

I can understand that impression, though I have met some owners of historic boats that are the opposite. Unfortunately some think that everyone should be interested in the history of the Canals and even think they are the only ones who do know the history. (some are not even owners of the boats but think they can be superior to every one else.

Who are you talking about in this quote?

[cotswoldsman]

Who are you talking about in this quote?

 

No one in particular, why? It is a generalisation of some people who think they know better than everyone else and that boaters should be interested in the same things as they are. I know lots of boaters who have no interest in the history of the canals and just enjoy going out on boats, this would most probably include a high majority of boat hirers, who most probably put a lot more money into the canals than the minority of historic boat owners or crews.

[Laurence Hogg]

No one in particular, why? It is a generalisation of some people who think they know better than everyone else and that boaters should be interested in the same things as they are. I know lots of boaters who have no interest in the history of the canals and just enjoy going out on boats, this would most probably include a high majority of boat hirers, who most probably put a lot more money into the canals than the minority of historic boat owners or crews.

 

The hire industry struggles even now to fill their boats, these are the real modern day working boats yet few see them as that. The industry too keeps going but with little to no support from outside orginisations. We have the IWA show this weekend which will charge the trade a fortune to show off their wares and craft. Ask yourself what the IWA has ever done to help the boating trade? and hire bases? which, without them in place we would have no viable canal system. Aickman and Rolt may have kick started the game but its the trade stalwarts that have kept it going. I spent most of my previous working life heavily involved with hire companies and boat builders all over the country, some were corporate IWA members, yet IWA never looks at the trade other than as a source of income. On the other hand BW at least have boating trade managers trying to help promote the sites where possible. Its not just some traditionalists who live in a world of their own!

[Speedwheel]

I know lots of boaters who have no interest in the history of the canals and just enjoy going out on boats,

 

Even if they have no particular interest, they should still have some sort of understanding and respect for the history of the waterways. In partucular the great effort that was made by many people and organisations to keeps the canals open for them to enjoy today. If they do not have this understanding then they will simply take them for granted and it is when this happens that the infrastructure becomes most vunerable.

[Graham Davis]

Do you suggest that on top of the possible hours tuition they get about the boat they should also have a lesson on the history of the canals as well?

[Laurence Hogg]

Do you suggest that on top of the possible hours tuition they get about the boat they should also have a lesson on the history of the canals as well?

 

An observation from being around Broad st Wolverhampton this year is that a lot of the hirers both home grown and foreign seem to be well genned up on the history side of things. Only on Sunday some Swedish people were in and knew all about the Northern BCN which was part of their holiday, the services there has a good selection of leaflets both BW and Society/Group info which regulary gets emptied. It does overall seem the hirers have a better background knowledge than some owners, there again its an expensive week or two they are putting their money into.

[Graham Davis]

Agreed, Laurence.

The group that own In and Ad Hoc hold an annual meeting each year where they invariably have a canal history talk, although, unfortunately, not all of them turn up! Perhaps those that you met are some of the latter!!

[Tiny]

We note we are in a minority in that on any blind bend or bridge the wife is up the front hanging out to see round as far as possible while I, approaching slowly blast the horn and head forward always expecting the boater from hell to appear. Other stand on the back and just hope (if they think at all) it seems. Boats moored are another hazard as some find the only cut bit is right by the bridge and use it.

[Laurence Hogg]

Often overlooked but always good to settle a point with, "The Boater's Handbook". Page 9.

 

[Guest]

Often overlooked but always good to settle a point with, "The Boater's Handbook". Page 9.

 

 

Indeed..

 

a pity then that so may BW official long and short term moorings contravene this.

[alan_fincher]

Often overlooked but always good to settle a point with, "The Boater's Handbook". Page 9.

 

If people stuck to.....

 

"And try to stay away 50 feet, (15 m) from established angling spots"

 

it should mean you never ever found anybody moored on a lock landing. :lol:L

[benfordboy]

I should have not included 'on here' - it should have read.

 

Because sometimes I think some owners of historic boats come across as - 'make way, make way, historic boat coming through'.

 

Just an impression I have had sometimes when out on the cut.

 

Again A little off topic , but I remember being moored at Kilby Bridge , a few yrs ago in our Norman along with a friend in his Callumcraft 22 , around midnight a NB arrived & moored up . Owner came around stating 'Sorry folks I'm a working Historic Boat delivering beer , I have right of passage' We enquired to his history of his boat expecting a old riveted bcn hull or similar - Built in 1976 ! Have to say he went away rather quickly when we told him our cruisers were 1968 & 1966 respectively ! Historic Boat indeed !

[matty40s]

Again A little off topic , but I remember being moored at Kilby Bridge , a few yrs ago in our Norman along with a friend in his Callumcraft 22 , around midnight a NB arrived & moored up . Owner came around stating 'Sorry folks I'm a working Historic Boat delivering beer , I have right of passage' We enquired to his history of his boat expecting a old riveted bcn hull or similar - Built in 1976 ! Have to say he went away rather quickly when we told him our cruisers were 1968 & 1966 respectively ! Historic Boat indeed !

 

I would have responded..."fantastic, you are welcome,bring your beer, come in, sit down."

[ditchcrawler]

Is this what you mean about mooring just through bridges.

Edited July 29, 2011 by ditchcrawler

[Guest]

Is this what you mean about mooring just through bridges.

 

To be fair they are working on the towpath though....