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Regent’s Canal towpath row


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Many thanks, thats all good info.

 

So when cyclists quote that the towpaths have been designated cyclepaths (often quoted as some connection to sustrans) they are incorrect?

It depends on where you are......

 

No, it is not generally correct that there is any automatic right to cycle on tow-paths, and certainly not under the auspices of Sustrans. Most towpaths will be as David describes - there is no right unless BW grant it, and you adhere to their conditions. Usually that would mean that you strictly need to download a BW permit, but that has been waived, in, for example, the whole of the London area.

 

However some towpaths have been formally adopted as Sustrans, (and sometimes other autorised non-Sustrans), routes, and in these cases they are "designated" routes, where no other permission or permit is required to cycle on them.

 

A considerate cyclist will hopefully stick to the guidelines that Sustrans issue for the use of shared paths. (Yes, of course, I realise there are idiots that do not, but please don't tar us all with the same brush!).

 

On shared use paths...

 

One third of National Cycle Network is on traffic-free paths, such as disused railway routes. These are designed for shared use by cyclists and walkers. They are often suitable for wheelchairs and sometimes for horse riders.

 

Experience in the UK and abroad shows that such paths can benefit everyone and that they can be comfortably and safely shared if we show respect for others.

 

When cycling on shared use paths please:

 

1) give way to pedestrians, leaving them plenty of room

2) keep to your side of any dividing line

3) be prepared to slow down or stop if necessary

4) don’t expect to cycle at high speeds

5) be careful at junctions, bends and entrances

6) REMEMBER THAT MANY PEOPLE ARE HARD OF HEARING OR VISUALLY IMPAIRED - DON’T ASSUME THEY CAN SEE OR HEAR YOU

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If only this animosity was reserved for tow paths. It seems to be endemic these days that if any one whatever you are in/on dares to slightly inconvenience someone else then it's OK to abuse them or drive/ride at them.

 

As an avid cyclist (just ridden across Australia) and a boat owner (even been known to wear Lycra on the back :rolleyes: )I really don't know what the answer is, chicanes just mean cyclists are slowed down for a second but can be back up to speed in seconds. Walkers plugged into their music machines mean they no longer hear you asking to come past.

 

If you wonder where I'm going with this post don't cos I don't know and now I expect I'll be abused for wasting someone's time, albeit 10 secs. OMG get me back to the Nullarbor or the T&M on my own. :unsure:

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... Walkers plugged into their music machines mean they no longer hear you asking to come past.

 

Saw a lovely example of this in the summer: young lady jogging, plugged in. Cyclist trying to get past; she is totally unaware. He had to wait until she turned off the tow path. We exchanged weary looks!

I have to say the cyclist was amazingly patient.

 

On a windy morning, G & S

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Seriously though, down here I am surrounded by "proper boaters" - if "proper boater" is simply defined as anybody who lives full time on their boat. And yep, I accept, they don't have or use bikes. Why would they ? They have moored themselves up nicely within walking distance of main line railway stations, so they can easily get back from their daily commute each day to

boats that hardly ever move. "Proper boaters" with the canal's interest at heart ? I don't think so, unless something happens to take their supply of cheap housing away from them.

 

Amongst our immediate 'proper' boaters, I think us non-proper boaters have probably managed more canal miles than all of them put together. I do mean our fellow moorers and not the local cc'ers - though some of them don't get very far :lol: . We do have one very keen cyclist and he rides on the roads.

Edited by Water Rat.
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I was canoeing on the River Wey (yes I have a permit) last weekend and saw two groups on cyclists coming towards each over meet exactly where there was an couple with a couple on dogs (not on leads). No one used a bell, the dogs were all over the place and the walkers refused to give up their "side by side" approach to walking. Everything stopped for a few seconds. Then, to loud tuts from all concerned they all carried on. It's all about consideration isn't it?

 

I just paddled along smiling to myself.

  • Greenie 1
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  • 5 weeks later...

The London towpaths are tricky on a bike because of there are so many pedestrians in some places, some people just seem oblivious of you even if you get off the bike and try to walk it past them. Using a bell to alert someone who's looking straight at you but won't get out of the way seems a bit ridiculous. Likewise as a pedestrian, cyclists can be intimidating. Many of us will have experience from both perspectives. It basically requires awareness and consideration from all parties.

Edited by blackrose
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This is an interesting debate where nearly everyone making a contribution appears to be unaware of the Legal status of the towpath.

 

Apart from a few sections where the towpath is a Public Right of way, the only people who have a legal right of use the Towpath either on foot, or on a bicycle are people engaged in the navigation of a boat. Other users have what is legally defined as "Permitted Access" which allows them to walk or cycle on the towpath provided they comply with any regulations set by the owner of the path, which is why BW can legally require people to have permits as part of those regulations.

[snip]

Edited to add:- Occupants of moored boats are assumed to be included in the catagory of persons engaged in navigation, so using the towpath for access/egress is permitted under the regulations.

I presume this means that a narrowboater using a bike (ie me) doesn't need a permit to cycle along the tow path.

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I thought BW scrapped those towpath bike permits several years ago? :unsure:

 

No you still need one Waterscape

 

Haven't you seen the BW license checkers stopping every bike that passes and if they haven't got a license issuing section 8 notices to them ;)

The confusion here is that the requirement to have them in London was abandoned some years ago.....

 

From Steve's link......

 

However, you are not required to hold a cycle permit in Scotland or London.

 

Elsewhere, strictly, you should have one, although it is literally a "make your own from the Internet" operation now.

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Imagine a motorway built to a specification that suits cars perfectly from your abode on the outskirts of London to your place of work in the city centre, and you have a car. Imagine also that the number of other cars using it is relatively small.

Now imagine that everybody else has the right to walk about in a random fashion and exercise their dogs all over this motorway because it has nice views.

Translate cars to cycles and that is the situation in London with regard to towpaths and cycling

I commuted in this way for a year or two with an 11 mile journey and it was so frustrating. The planners seemed to think that cyclists can commute at the pottering speeds of old ladies, with stopping every few yards for hurdles, chicanes, etc You can, but the journey gets nearer to two hours.

Cycling on the roads is just too dangerous. I averaged one nasty incident every three to four months and eventually gave up.

The towpaths should have red-route status from 07:30 to 09:30 and 16:30 to 18:30 on weekdays when the only pedestrians allowed are commuters who know what they are doing and it is otherwise the preserve of cyclists. Outside those hours cyclist should be required to travel very slowly, eg 4 mph

 

Where is my crash hat & fleece?

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Imagine a motorway built to a specification that suits cars perfectly from your abode on the outskirts of London to your place of work in the city centre, and you have a car. Imagine also that the number of other cars using it is relatively small.

Now imagine that everybody else has the right to walk about in a random fashion and exercise their dogs all over this motorway because it has nice views.

Translate cars to cycles and that is the situation in London with regard to towpaths and cycling

I commuted in this way for a year or two with an 11 mile journey and it was so frustrating. The planners seemed to think that cyclists can commute at the pottering speeds of old ladies, with stopping every few yards for hurdles, chicanes, etc You can, but the journey gets nearer to two hours.

Cycling on the roads is just too dangerous. I averaged one nasty incident every three to four months and eventually gave up.

The towpaths should have red-route status from 07:30 to 09:30 and 16:30 to 18:30 on weekdays when the only pedestrians allowed are commuters who know what they are doing and it is otherwise the preserve of cyclists. Outside those hours cyclist should be required to travel very slowly, eg 4 mph

 

Where is my crash hat & fleece?

Yet in other countries in europe they have no problems intergrating cyclists with cars, trucks and pedestrians.

I've cycled and walked and driven in some very busy cities and never had the kind of issues I see being talked about on this forum so maybe it's more of a nationality and attitude thing.

Edited by Jim Evans
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As with so many things Brits just don't do things the way a continental European would. Only the politicians think we are europeans!

 

I used to work for Raleigh and regarded bicycles as the ultimate in efficient environmentally friendly transport probably approaching the million miles per gallon when you consider the required lube oil. However since moving to London and watching cyclists crossing red lights and battling with pedestrians on pedestrian crossings, the cycle may be green but the cyclists are usually red with rage.

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Imagine a motorway built to a specification that suits cars perfectly from your abode on the outskirts of London to your place of work in the city centre, and you have a car. Imagine also that the number of other cars using it is relatively small.

Now imagine that everybody else has the right to walk about in a random fashion and exercise their dogs all over this motorway because it has nice views.

Translate cars to cycles and that is the situation in London with regard to towpaths and cycling

I commuted in this way for a year or two with an 11 mile journey and it was so frustrating. The planners seemed to think that cyclists can commute at the pottering speeds of old ladies, with stopping every few yards for hurdles, chicanes, etc You can, but the journey gets nearer to two hours.

Cycling on the roads is just too dangerous. I averaged one nasty incident every three to four months and eventually gave up.

The towpaths should have red-route status from 07:30 to 09:30 and 16:30 to 18:30 on weekdays when the only pedestrians allowed are commuters who know what they are doing and it is otherwise the preserve of cyclists. Outside those hours cyclist should be required to travel very slowly, eg 4 mph

 

Where is my crash hat & fleece?

 

:lol: I anm right in assuming this was meant to be funny aren't I ? :lol:

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I'm often a pedestrian in London and find the cyclists there to be oblivious to the rules of the road, in particular pedestrian crossings. I have to confess that when on the towpath I do my absolute best to inconvenience speeding lycra clad tosspots on the grounds that it's one back for the walkers. Not big, not clever, but very satisfying.

  • Greenie 2
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I'm often a pedestrian in London and find the cyclists there to be oblivious to the rules of the road, in particular pedestrian crossings. I have to confess that when on the towpath I do my absolute best to inconvenience speeding lycra clad tosspots on the grounds that it's one back for the walkers. Not big, not clever, but very satisfying.

 

What many cyclists don't seem to realise is that a glancing blow from one of them speeding past could have serious implications for a slightly built pedestrian near the edge of the towpath - I always try to walk so that cyclists are forced to the edge on the grounds that it might make them a little more careful (plus having 20 stone to stand my ground solidly means I have an even chance of coming of best)

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I cycle the Thames Path every so often and my bike is equipped with ye olde bell. The Thames Path is a cycle route and a path and obviously you have to be considerate to all users, but this doesn't just go for cyclists. Dogs are my main issue because they are all over the place and are unpredictable, they ignore the bell and your timing has to be just right to get passed them. I always slow down for walkers and ding my bell, normally it's ignored! So I wait and go around when I can. I walk when going through a lock area (as specified by the signs on the Thames).

 

I wear lycra, but I'm not a tosspot.

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No worries. I wear lycra on my bike for comfort and the fact that it doesn't flap about.

 

I can understand that cycling on towpaths can be both annoying and dangerous, especially the narrow, badly maintained ones. I would dearly love to cycle the Oxford Canal towpath but i won't because I know I'd spend most of my time waiting for walkers and doing last minute "saves" to stop myself from going in (from balance issues rather than irate boaters/walkers/anglers!!). For that reason I stick to the wide ones such as the Thames and parts of the Wey.

 

Have to say that I don't understand why some cyclists have to go hell for leather along the towpaths, as I said earlier on in this thread, it's about consideration.

 

Anyway, now I've got my canoe, I'll be cycling less....

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