Composting toilets

[fawzia]

I've searched the forums to read opinions on composting toilets, but couldn't find anything more up-to-date than a year ago (unless I was looking in the wrong place!) We are having a boat built at the end of the year and are considering a composting toilet. We went to look at some recently, and saw two different models (the Airhead and the Separett) and saw that things have moved on considerably in terms of sizes and I assume functionality from what looked like an enormous Envirolet.

 

We are wondering whether you think the technology of composting toilets will continue to advance and therefore it is not worth installing one yet. (I know some of you will say once you make a decision, you've got to stick with it because of the money and hassle of changing systems - but just imagine that this is not a consideration, what would you recommend?).

 

We have also read around different opinions on the usability of human compost (including the humanure guide) and are still not sure how long it needs to be stored for before it is 'safe' to use on an allotment.

 

From what people have said on the forums, some of you seem to have little trouble whilst others have had difficulty with too much liquid, inadequate composting, smells etc - is this due to the type of toilet? Or the care and attention they need?

 

We will be using it as a liveaboard, for 2 of us.

 

One last question - slightly delicate I'm afraid, if using the Separett, how easy is it to ensure that the urine does not get contaminated with other products (especially for women?).

 

Any tips, advice, thoughts most welcome!

[mrsmelly]

I've searched the forums to read opinions on composting toilets, but couldn't find anything more up-to-date than a year ago (unless I was looking in the wrong place!) We are having a boat built at the end of the year and are considering a composting toilet. We went to look at some recently, and saw two different models (the Airhead and the Separett) and saw that things have moved on considerably in terms of sizes and I assume functionality from what looked like an enormous Envirolet.

 

We are wondering whether you think the technology of composting toilets will continue to advance and therefore it is not worth installing one yet. (I know some of you will say once you make a decision, you've got to stick with it because of the money and hassle of changing systems - but just imagine that this is not a consideration, what would you recommend?).

 

We have also read around different opinions on the usability of human compost (including the humanure guide) and are still not sure how long it needs to be stored for before it is 'safe' to use on an allotment.

 

From what people have said on the forums, some of you seem to have little trouble whilst others have had difficulty with too much liquid, inadequate composting, smells etc - is this due to the type of toilet? Or the care and attention they need?

 

We will be using it as a liveaboard, for 2 of us.

 

One last question - slightly delicate I'm afraid, if using the Separett, how easy is it to ensure that the urine does not get contaminated with other products (especially for women?).

 

Any tips, advice, thoughts most welcome!

Hi

 

Welcome, the advice is quite simple, do a poll and ask how many people with boats have composting toilets. I can tell you already that it is less than 1 percent. They are useless especialy for liveaboard purposes they simply cannot cope. Spend your money somewhere else but PLEESE dont go gas free that also for a liveaboard is simply a no goer......

[Paul Evans]

I'm not sure I would be as blunt as Mr Smelly but the fact that there has been no discussion of composting toilets for a year speaks volumes. In that same period there have been many discussions about the relative merits of pump outs and carry outs (none of which added one wit to the similar conversations that have gone on since the forum started). My heart attracts me to the composting approach but my brain and, more importantly, SWMBO say "No". Get a carry out!

[Nose Miner]

I have a DIY compost toilet on my boat. It is an old type portaloo bucket camping toilet, but instead of water and chemicals, you use sawdust. I'm a bloke so most of the wet stuff goes in the hedge. It takes about a month to fill and when full I stick the contents in a dedicated compost bin in my parents garden. This breaks down well enough in a year to be spread on the flower borders. The worms seem to love it. If you are a girl the only difference I can see is you'd need more sawdust.

 

I've had no problems with smells of flies. The bucket has a clip on lid that keeps it safe. No reason to buy one of those expensive jobbies which basically don't compost, but dessicate the contents.

[Midnight Rider]

PLEESE dont go gas free that also for a liveaboard is simply a no goer......

Don't see why ---- worked for me.

[mrsmelly]

Don't see why ---- worked for me.

Thats the idea,

Keep telling yourself and you will eventualy even believe it !! just like the other 2 or 3 percent of people who have done it.....

[casper ghost]

"They are useless"

 

Well, that has answered that one for you...

Gary

[wrigglefingers]

Well, that has answered that one for you...

Gary

 

The only examples on a boat I come across have lasted for less than a year before replacement with something more prosaic. Even the outrageously expensive one imported from Canada complete with complicated fan system which was bound to ensure success. Apparently. Utterly unsuccessful and it was huge.

 

On land, my friend runs her farm retreat with compost lavs which work reasonably well. She uses sawdust and shredded paper as the medium which absorbs matter effectively and is odour-free except in very hot weather. However, the only thing that goes in the loo is food based - no feminine hygiene products at all - these are collected in a bucket and disposed of in the rubbish, and we are very politely asked to limit our use of loo roll which is also collected separately. It works on land because she has a large compost heap on which the compost is left to rot down which takes about a year.

 

Conclusion? I wouldn't consider a compost lav on a boat. I do realise that I should be concerned about the polluting effect of lav solution but I feel there are other battles to be had. But then, I didn't intend to live like a Victorian when I stepped on a boat. Not that there's anything wrong with that I hasten to add....

[Midnight Rider]

Thats the idea,

Keep telling yourself and you will eventualy even believe it !! just like the other 2 or 3 percent of people who have done it.....

I don't have to keep telling myself. I'm happy with the decision, it works for me.

 

I'm not going to hi-jack a compost bog thread, so I'll leave it there, but please realise that your way is not everybody's way.

[RLWP]

I what Wriggle has described is how I remember discussions of composting loos. They're great - as long as you don't mind getting intimate with your own piss, shit and soiled bog paper. So you piss in the hedge, examine the contents of your loo to ensure it has the right consistency, and shovel it out a few times a year, and put your dirty loo paper in a bin.

 

Disgusting

 

Richard

[casper ghost]

Disgusting

 

Richard

I know a boater who does something else with the "solids", gives a whole new meaning to solid fuel stove

[nb Innisfree]

I know a boater who does something else with the "solids", gives a whole new meaning to solid fuel stove

 

If processed correctly it could be edible! mmmmm....

[Caprifool]

Comments like mrsmelly's comes from not being up to date with todays compost toilets. I would have agreed if all the compost toilets where like they where 30-40 years ago. Large, clonky, smelly things that would overflow when you had guests. The modern urine separating ones available today are completely different creatures.

 

As a person who has 40 years of experience using them at my nans and in my own home. I can answer the delicate question asked by the OP. Of corse we are all individualy formed "down there" But after using one a few times, you get the habit of "direction" naturaly. Normally, the laws of gravity see to that everything goes where it should :-)

 

Some more "gifted" men can have contact with the urine bowl or funnel if sitting all the way down though, when using a Separett. So, if that might be an issue. Have a look at the depth (body to bowl) of several models. Go figure....

 

If you have a stove. Disposing the paper in a small bin lined with a paper bag next to the toilet to burn later. Or putting it neatly folded into the stove directly helps not having to change tubs all the time.

 

I don't use starters and other products designed to rip us off through insecurity and the will to "do the right thing" A shovel of dirt in the bottom of the tub and a shovel on top before putting the lid on has enough good bacteria in it for free.

 

I don't know how long we store ours. We have like 5, 25(ish)liter bins in rotation behind our shed. The end product both looks and smells like potting soil.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Caprifool

[jonk]

I have just been reading The Inland Boat Owner's Book 4th edition by Graham Booth. On page 86 is shown a small version of a modern composting toilet - looks interesting! Next time you are in a book shop have a quick look!

 

John

 

I have now added the pic in my gallery

Edited April 29, 2011 by jonk

[Bat & Frog]

I have to agree with Caprifool. Swmbo is finnish and compost toilets are very common up there, with many people living semi off-grid. We are using a Seperatt composting loo and although only had a few months are both comfortable with this. You have to sort some method of collecting the urine as it hasn't been designed for boat use but its just getting a suitable container to connect to the outlet hose.

 

We don't generally get involved in the toilet debate as most people appear up their own backsides on this subject with very fixed views. The thought of having to haul off a tank to an elsan didn't appeal to us, nor did the stench of pump out. The Seperatt takes up little more room than a normal loo without the need for a black water tank. As we have part of an allotment the storage should not be a problem as the buckets can live under the shed till fully fermented. We are both omnivores so won't be using the "night soil" on the veg plot. There is a fan that operates 24/7 but power for this is easily managed.

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

We don't generally get involved in the toilet debate as most people appear up their own backsides on this subject with very fixed views. The thought of having to haul off a tank to an elsan didn't appeal to us, nor did the stench of pump out.

 

<snip>

 

I wonder if I could convince you that our pump-out doesn't smell

 

Richard

Edited April 28, 2011 by RLWP

[Bat & Frog]

I wonder if I could convince you that our pump-out doesn't smell

 

Richard

 

I am happy to believe that some peoples does smell of roses or maybe doesn't stink but I have suffered the other "gentle aroma".

One of the things I do like about the compost loo is that you don't loose storage space to a large tank (as we are liveaboard it would need to be a reasonable size) and there are ongoing savings on not having to pay for pumpout. Further to this it doesn't need a supply of water or emptying at set times (I can live with a sealed bucket for a little while) so no problem if you get frozen in or there is a stopage.

[mrsmelly]

I wonder if I could convince you that our pump-out doesn't smell

 

Richard

I wonder if I could convince you that after mooring opposite a pumpout machine for 3 years that pump out toilets stink to high heaven when being emptied especialy by the self pump out i dont give a you not what about anyone else brigade !!!

[jonk]

A pic of a modern composting loo - just for interest!

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/uploads/tn_gallery_8816_651_170540.jpg

 

I have also added it to my gallery, where it is easier to see.

 

John

Edited April 29, 2011 by jonk

[Chris Pink]

A pic of a modern composting loo - just for interest!

 

 

Is that the doll's house version? (the picture is a bit small)

[barroca grande]

I love my compost toilet. Easy to use, no need to find an elsan or pump out at specific times. I used to own a horse and so have no problem at all emptying the contents after about a month using rubber gloves. The contents go into a non-air tight lidded container for another month before being disposed of into compost bin.

 

The pee goes into it's own container and gets emptied into hedge bottoms as and when required. If I had flower beds on my roof I would dispose of it there as that is what a boater I knew did with his and while the other marina owners admired his flowers they complained about it. Just envious I suppose.

 

wee paper goes into a small bin lined with the inside part of cereal packets (greaseproof) and when full these go on the fire I suppose in the summer these will go in the bin. Poo paper goes down into the depths as normal and because I use 'green' toilet paper decomposes very quickly indeed. I get the green toilet paper from work's pps supplier 64 rolls at a time only just bought my second batch and not finished the first batch yet.

 

Men can sit down or aim very carefully into the pee holes - the loo does have a rather shallow bowl so well endowed men might have a problem!!! Future compost toilets should be deeper if only at the front in my view.

 

I have a solar fan so when it is sunny the fan draws air out but the loo also comes with 12v fan which I rarely use.

 

I am still playing with best mixers and am coming round to just using non peat compost from garden centres with the occasional addition of some of the cat's litter which is actually horse bedding. Aubiose (hemp) or Bliss (rapeseed) works well. Bliss comes in two flavours eucalyptus in the winter and citrus in the summer to keep flies at bay. Bit annoyed that the cat ran out before the citrus batch came in so we have a bale of the eucalyptus which will last her two years!!!

 

Another major plus point is no water used at all and therefore I do not have to fill up at every water point I pass just to service the loo.

 

The loo is a Natures Head.

 

I think that about covers it.

[wandering snail]

Got rid of our Biolet after 3 years of trying to get the disgusting tyrant to do wot it should. Have now got a Separatt 'Villa' and would never have any other loo on our liveaboard boat now. It works wonderfully with a minimum of fuss. It's got a little 12v fan so is gentle on the batteries too. Somewhere in the gallery is a pic of ours put there when Beth asked about it around Feb time I think? Ah, just found it - 16th Feb, captioned The Loo

Edited April 29, 2011 by wandering snail

[jonk]

Is that the doll's house version? (the picture is a bit small)

Sorry - my first attempt at linking a pic from the gallery A larger version can be seen if you actually go to the gallery!

John

[Bobbybass]

I wonder if I could convince you that our pump-out doesn't smell

 

Richard

Initially my pump out did smell...due to the rubbish flexi hose that LeeSan sold me...and didn't tell me it is actually slightly porous !!

I replaced it a few years back with solvent weld and its fine now.

I put some Blue down the 'ole every 6 days...and clean the loo with Harpic blue stuff.

This has been a great regime...no emptying smells and it flushes like new with no blockages.

Since I started using the Harpic...I have been able to stop the occasional dismantling for de-scaling or unblocking...it keeps the valve nice and clear.

I soaked some loo parts in it...neat...for a week and there were no ill effects.

It has acid in it...the same as kettle descaler that others use in their weekly regimes..

I prefer the Harpic though...as the acid is weaker and it is more like a normal house loo cleaner.

 

Bob

[RLWP]

Initially my pump out did smell...due to the rubbish flexi hose that LeeSan sold me...and didn't tell me it is actually slightly porous !!

I replaced it a few years back with solvent weld and its fine now.

I put some Blue down the 'ole every 6 days...and clean the loo with Harpic blue stuff.

This has been a great regime...no emptying smells and it flushes like new with no blockages.

Since I started using the Harpic...I have been able to stop the occasional dismantling for de-scaling or unblocking...it keeps the valve nice and clear.

I soaked some loo parts in it...neat...for a week and there were no ill effects.

It has acid in it...the same as kettle descaler that others use in their weekly regimes..

I prefer the Harpic though...as the acid is weaker and it is more like a normal house loo cleaner.

 

Bob

 

We have a much simpler dump-through loo, which doesn't smell. The secret is the seal on the ball valve. If the seal is OK, the loo is OK

 

I'm sure some pump-out stations smell, although I've never found it a problem with the BW ones.

 

But then, surely that suitcase smells too when you empty it

 

Richard