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Categorising boaters is wrong.

DeanS

By DeanS
in General Boating

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alan_fincher Veteran II

alan_fincher

Posted
Posted

If you dispute the data, find some evidence to show that BW are lying. Your observations from a small patch, reported by someone with a mindset that thinks it's even remotely plausible that a behaviour can be universalised to, and exclusively ascribed to, one group defined by their licence status is ... well, not very convincing.

 

Where did I say such behaviour can be universalised ?

 

I was very careful to say.....

 

Of course the situation may be radically different in other bits of the country..........................

 

Hardly sounds like I said what you say I said, does it ?

 

Endlessly repeating a lie does not make it true. And once it is proved to be a lie, continuing to do so is somewhat damaging to your credibility.

 

So exactly what have you proved to be a lie ? What have I said that is not true ? What I have said is true, if you don't chose to selectively ignore the things I have been very careful to say. I'm not a fan of being called a liar in any circumstances, and I think it unwarranted here.

 

Whilst your overstay information may indeed be obtained from BW undre a FOI request, it doesn't seem to me to be hugely relevant in an area where local boaters tell me that provided they keep their heads down, overstay notices are rarely issued, and they are seldom troubled.

 

I have spoken only for one geographical area, and made that fact abundantly clear. I can say categorically that there are very few boats that can be identified as having permanent moorings that choose to stay here for weeks on end. I have not attempted to extrapolate that to the rest of the country.

 

Finally,I perhaps misinterpreted your initial post, which I quoted....

 

More overstay tickets are issued to people with moorings than those on CC licences. 7% of CCers on the L&S use those precious visitor moorings.

 

which initially read to me like you were quoting the Lee & Stort to support a more generic point. Now you have explained it differently, I can see it is probably two different unrelated statements, so I apologise if I got that part of your meaning wrong.

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ymu Rising Star

ymu

Posted
Posted

It is two different statements - there's a scarcity of evidence, and the NABO FOIA plus L&S consultation docs are the best I can do.

 

Anyone can do a FOIA if they want the information broken down differently:

 

www.whatdotheyknow.com

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Guest wanted

Guest wanted

Posted
Posted

For months I've read the various discussions/fights over types of moorers/overstayers etc, and I'm aware one thread was shut down because it got hijacked..so I'd like to ask anyone who responds to this thread, that they try and control themselves:) My understanding is:

 

1. Some people pay for mooring and stay in a marina all year and never move.

2. Some people pay for a designated towpath mooring all year and never move.

3. Some people Continuous cruise and find a mooring in a marina over the frozen months.

4. Some people Continuous cruise and get stuck on a towpath for the frozen months.

5. Some people who hire or use their boats for short trips/weekends only such as hire boats.

 

My point is this. No matter which you are (1-5), for the sake of this thread, I'd like to generally call you a "Canal Citizen".

 

So, starting with the basis that we are all canal citizens, it is clear that some "citizens" are taking advantage of :

 

6. staying at moorings longer than they should because there is no regulation.

7. staying at moorings or cruising a short area due to lack of legal specifics.

8. some who are happy to evade any regulations or legal specifics and take their chances.

 

I feel it's completely illogical to try and say that 6,7 and 8 are caused or pandemic amongst a specific group of 1,2,3,4,5.

 

For example...someone in group 1, may leave their official mooring, travel to the other side of the network, and act in a manner such as 6,7,8.

At the same time someone in group 3, may never ever act in a manner such as 6,7,8.

 

 

I fail to therefore see the logic of even discussing the issue of 6,7,8 by linking the offences to any specific group 1,2,3,4 or 5. Every time you do, the debate goes nowhere.

 

I hope that I never become someone guilty of 6,7,8 and it makes no difference which group 1,2,3,4,5 I belong too.

 

It is so rediculous to see threads where certain "types" of boaters are branded guilty when it is actually impossible to record every boaters actions.

 

Hereby ends the lesson. B)

Try stay on topic B)

 

equinoxbinarypplwallmat.png

 

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alan_fincher Veteran II

alan_fincher

Posted
Posted

Anyone can do a FOIA if they want the information broken down differently:

 

www.whatdotheyknow.com

I did once get involved with a FOI request with BW.

 

Somewhat remarkably this seemed to be because one of their managers wanted some information, and seemed to think that me asking the question represented his best hope of getting it.

 

I don't think I'll be bothering again - life is probably too short, based on last time!

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Jim Batty Proficient

Jim Batty

Posted
Posted

For months I've read the various discussions/fights over types of moorers/overstayers etc, and I'm aware one thread was shut down because it got hijacked..so I'd like to ask anyone who responds to this thread, that they try and control themselves:) My understanding is:

 

1. Some people pay for mooring and stay in a marina all year and never move.

2. Some people pay for a designated towpath mooring all year and never move.

3. Some people Continuous cruise and find a mooring in a marina over the frozen months.

4. Some people Continuous cruise and get stuck on a towpath for the frozen months.

5. Some people who hire or use their boats for short trips/weekends only such as hire boats.

 

My point is this. No matter which you are (1-5), for the sake of this thread, I'd like to generally call you a "Canal Citizen".

 

So, starting with the basis that we are all canal citizens, it is clear that some "citizens" are taking advantage of :

 

6. staying at moorings longer than they should because there is no regulation.

7. staying at moorings or cruising a short area due to lack of legal specifics.

8. some who are happy to evade any regulations or legal specifics and take their chances.

 

I feel it's completely illogical to try and say that 6,7 and 8 are caused or pandemic amongst a specific group of 1,2,3,4,5.

 

For example...someone in group 1, may leave their official mooring, travel to the other side of the network, and act in a manner such as 6,7,8.

At the same time someone in group 3, may never ever act in a manner such as 6,7,8.

 

 

I fail to therefore see the logic of even discussing the issue of 6,7,8 by linking the offences to any specific group 1,2,3,4 or 5. Every time you do, the debate goes nowhere.

 

I hope that I never become someone guilty of 6,7,8 and it makes no difference which group 1,2,3,4,5 I belong too.

 

It is so rediculous to see threads where certain "types" of boaters are branded guilty when it is actually impossible to record every boaters actions.

 

Hereby ends the lesson. B)

Try stay on topic B)

 

I like distinctions. No doubt you could add a whole bunch more. And I like the numbers - they are just a short and easy form for referring to the distinctions.

 

And clearly some people do unthinkingly equate all/many/most CCers (and some of your other categories) with evaders. And it is THAT that I find tedious. And I think your main point is that every time someone does THAT - the unthinking equating - the argument goes nowhere. To which I agree. And sometimes it seems to take a heck of a long time and a lot of name calling to get there (i.e. nowhere).

 

Not sure I like being classified as a 'Canal Citizen' though. Sounds awfully formal and socially aware for someone who simply enjoys living on and messing about in boats.

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Scabby Gongoozler

Scabby

Posted
Posted

AAAAAAAArgh

 

Scavengers and sycophants and flatterers

and fools

Pharisees and parasites and hypocrites

and ghouls

Calculating swindlers, prevaricating frauds

Perpetrating evil as they roam the earth

in hordes

Feeding on their fellow men

Reaping rich rewards

Contaminating everything they see

Corrupting honest me like me

Humbug! Poppycock! Balderdash! Bah!

I hate people! I hate people!

People are despicable creatures

Loathesome inexplicable creatures

Good-for-nothing kickable creatures

I hate people! I abhor them!

When I see the indolent classes

Sitting on their indolent asses

Gulping ale from indolent glasses

I hate people! I detest them! I deplore them!

Fools who have no money spend it

Get in debt then try to end it

Beg me on their knees befriend them

Knowing I have cash to lend them

Soft-hearted me! Hard-working me!

Clean-living, thrifty and kind as can be!

Situations like this are of interest to me

I hate people! I loathe people! I despise and abominate people!

Life is full of cretinous wretches

Earning what their sweatiness fetches

Empty minds whose pettiness stretches

Further than I can see

Little wonder I hate people

And I don't care if they hate me!

 

 

Love it!

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mickeyduff Contributor

mickeyduff

Posted
Posted (edited)

Just dreading when Dean sets off CC with a full boat, the posts will be coming thick and fast, like "Tesco bag on my prop! why are there so many tesco bags in the canal and not ASDA bags?" new thread "Seen some Ducks today with some Swans, can I feed them the same food?" New thread "Seen a pink and lime boat on the canal today are these traditional colours?" can't wait, that's when I'll loose the will to live, a bit like this pointless thread, you need to mix a bit more with people and stay off the laptops

Edited by mickeyduff
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HelenF Explorer

HelenF

Posted
Posted

Please don't stop!

 

CarlT come back!

Please!

 

I am unemployed having been made redundant three weeks ago and today I read this thread and I can now see how to spend the rest of my days.

Looking forward to DeanS next post. :rolleyes:

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