Why did this happen. Could it happen on a canal.?

[DeanS]

Hello all. Did this happen because the boat was on a river, which flowed too fast, pulled the stern out, while the bow was still tied up...and could a similar thing ever happen on a canal....do canals flood....do they have "flow"....up till now I have tended to assume that rivers are bad, canals are safe.

 

Edited December 22, 2010 by DeanS

[Ray T]

Canals can flood too:

 

 

The efforts to re float this boat have recently been on another thread.

 

 

[bottle]

That particular incident, no idea but canals can flood look at the ' How not to rescue a boat' thread that was a canal.

 

To be fair though it is not the canal that floods but the weather conditions that flood the surrounding areas of the canals, just like towns get flooded.

[DeanS]

Canals can flood too:

 

 

The efforts to re float this boat have recently been on another thread.

 

 

yes, sorry I saw that thread. But surely it would be gradual..compared to a river...I'm under the assumption that these boats which ended up on the canal towpath may have been uninhabited when it happened??? whereas on a river, things happen faster and even if you are in the boat, you may find yourself with issues much quicker.

 

I'd love to know of peoples experiences on canals and rivers...(non tidal)...as a guide for newbies like myself?

[Guest]

Hello all. Did this happen because the boat was on a river, which flowed too fast, pulled the stern out, while the bow was still tied up...and could a similar thing ever happen on a canal....do canals flood....do they have "flow"....up till now I have tended to assume that rivers are bad, canals are safe.

 

 

No idea why that particular incident occurred.

 

Most likely is the canal or river it was on flooded - the boat drifted onto the tow-path or bank whilst the canal was flooded or the river was in flood. Levels then fell settling the boat very badly unevenly - hindered by it;s mooring ropes and it then capsized or went down bow or stern first - it happens yes.

 

Yes canals can flood - particularly if they include 'riverised' sections or they are close to or run adjacent to a river. Some have flow too...

[DeanS]

No idea why that particular incident occurred.

 

Most likely is the canal or river it was on flooded - the boat drifted onto the tow-path or bank whilst the canal was flooded or the river was in flood. Levels then fell settling the boat very badly unevenly - hindered by it;s mooring ropes and it then capsized or went down bow or stern first - it happens yes.

 

Yes canals can flood - particularly if they include 'riverised' sections or they are close to or run adjacent to a river. Some have flow too...

 

 

So if you are on your boat and you see things are flooding, would you just watch as the levels dropped and keep yourself away from the towpath..? How quick do these kind of things happen...could it happen while you slept for example?

 

Canals can flood too:

 

 

The efforts to re float this boat have recently been on another thread.

 

Good time to do blacking?

[bottle]

Dean

 

Anything can happen when you are asleep.

 

If it happens you will deal with it, just like everything else that happens to you.

 

Of course you could carry three or more 12' scaffold poles and if the water starts to rise put them vertically (rammed in to canal bed) between your boat and the bank.

 

Edit: forgot, remember to slacken you mooring lines or tie them to the poles so they will rise with the boat..

Edited December 22, 2010 by bottle

[Guest]

So if you are on your boat and you see things are flooding, would you just watch as the levels dropped and keep yourself away from the towpath..? How quick do these kind of things happen...could it happen while you slept for example?

 

There will be folks on here better equipped to answer that - we have fortunately never been in that actual situation... but for me it's about avoiding being in that situation in the first place - ample facilities are available to be able to reasonably predict when your boat/mooring could be subject to something like that.

 

Check the internet sites and importantly flood warming boards whilst out and you will be fine.

 

However if you have a home mooring in an at risk area as above it is certainly possible that your boat could be over whelmed in a flood situation before you could get to it... you won't be on board but you will indeed lose your boat. I understand such events are thankfully rare.

[keble]

I'd love to know of peoples experiences on canals and rivers...(non tidal)...as a guide for newbies like myself?

Two years ago on the Avon, in Stratford, we had an inch of rain overnight. But the river rose 9 inches, so the problem was to keep the boat from sitting over land. We decided to head for the canal basin which was much safer, but the very fast current in the river was tricky.

Also experienced the Severn in flood; unpleasant of course, need to concentrate!

Conditions can change very fast.

[DeanS]

Two years ago on the Avon, in Stratford, we had an inch of rain overnight. But the river rose 9 inches, so the problem was to keep the boat from sitting over land. We decided to head for the canal basin which was much safer, but the very fast current in the river was tricky.

Also experienced the Severn in flood; unpleasant of course, need to concentrate!

Conditions can change very fast.

 

Is it dangerous to travel in the same direction as river flow? I heard you cant steer properly in that circumstance?

Is it dangerous to have a boat 90degrees to flow.

Would it be wise to face upstream, and throw down an anchor?

 

It all goes into my brain for future use

[carlt]

So if you are on your boat and you see things are flooding, would you just watch as the levels dropped and keep yourself away from the towpath..?

If I've ever been on a river, with rising levels, I've always thrown a mudweight, or anchor out, on the offside, to keep the boat away from the bank and slackened ropes off, as the water rose.

[DeanS]

If I've ever been on a river, with rising levels, I've always thrown a mudweight, or anchor out, on the offside, to keep the boat away from the bank and slackened ropes off, as the water rose.

 

good to know:)

Is a mudweight just a heavy object? How heavy would it need to be approx? Sorry for throwing out so many questions...I dont expect answers right away...;-)

[carlt]

good to know:)

Is a mudweight just a heavy object? How heavy would it need to be approx? Sorry for throwing out so many questions...I dont expect answers right away...;-)

Most people favour 56lb Avery type weights such as this:

 

(and yes, I will arrange collection/delivery of these as soon as xmas is dead and gone )

[Guest]

good to know:)

Is a mudweight just a heavy object?

 

Well it could be - but you can get 'proper' ones designed for the job with loop in the top to tie your rope to,

 

Most people favour 56lb Avery type weights such as this:

 

(and yes, I will arrange collection/delivery of these as soon as xmas is dead and gone )

 

Nice collection of Ecofans you have there Carl...

[carlt]

 

Nice collection of Ecofans you have there Carl...

Thank you, I need the weights to stop the yard blowing away, on hot days.

[jelunga]

Well it could be - but you can get 'proper' ones designed for the job with loop in the top to tie your rope to,

 

 

 

Nice collection of Ecofans you have there Carl...

 

They are lovely Seagulls.

[Roger Gunkel]

Is it dangerous to travel in the same direction as river flow? I heard you cant steer properly in that circumstance?

Is it dangerous to have a boat 90degrees to flow.

Would it be wise to face upstream, and throw down an anchor?

 

It all goes into my brain for future use

 

A boat will steer equally well going upstream or down providing you have steerage way, in other words moving through the water with flow over the rudder. For example, if your still water speed is 3 mph and the current is flowing against you at 3 mph then your speed over the ground is zero. Very useful for ferry gliding into moorings - you just move sideways. On the other hand, moving downstream will give you a ground speed of 6 mph. If you try to moor going downstream at that sort of speed, then once you reduce boat speed by 3 mph, you will be effectively out of control. Always moor into stream to maintain steerage way.

 

Reading and using tidal streams and currents is part and parcel of river and sea boating, and should be used to your advantage. It will speed up passages and help to moor accurately if used wisely.

 

Unfortunately, one of the downsides of only boating on comparatively current free canals, is the bad mooring rope habits that many boaters get into. Tight, short mooring lines are the most common, where any dramatic change in the water levels can leave the boat in a precarious position. In the marina here, there have been numerous incidents with boats being dragged over as the water rose or fell, until it started to come in through loose skin fittings, gas drain holes etc. Luckily someone usually spots the problem, but it is down to lack of knowledge or carelessness.

 

Always moore with long lines taken at an angle from bow and stern, and with spring lines to reduce lateral movement. I have another boat moored at Reedham on the Broads, where tidal range is frequently 4ft, so long lines are essential.

 

Boating is safe, if you know what the dangers are, ignorance is foolhardy. You are doing the right thing asking questions now

 

Roger

[Guest]

They are lovely Seagulls.

 

ah - somebody who knows their OB's

[carlt]

They are lovely Seagulls.

Spot on! Two Forty pluses and a Silver Century.

[steelaway]

Is it dangerous to travel in the same direction as river flow? I heard you cant steer properly in that circumstance?

Is it dangerous to have a boat 90degrees to flow.

Would it be wise to face upstream, and throw down an anchor?

 

It all goes into my brain for future use

 

 

Hi

 

I can see you are worried about all this.

Canals seldom flood and you would know in plenty of time, especialy if there are floods around the area. If you are concerned leave the mooring ropes slack during the night.

The boat on the towpath was the result of some freak flooding around Leeds about 5 years ago.

You will be strongly advised by the lock keeper on any river section not to go out if there if there is any problem, listen to them and you wont go wrong.

Plus there are coloured marker boards on the locks before all river sections telling you when it's safe.

You will only gain confidence by going on the rivers, once you have it they are wonderful, but be aware of the above.

The most worring is entering a lock against the flow, you will have been travelling with the flow and pretty fast for a good while, you wont realise until you start to turn. Then the boat will be travelling side ways until you have fully turned and are pointing back up stream.

You then need to apply power to overcome the flow and continue almost past the entrance to the lock before you turn into it, to aviod bumping the down stream wall.

Remember it is a boat and it will keep on floating, you have to learn how to use your power and rudder to make it easy. NB's are very hard to capsize, most of the weight is below the water line.

It is another skill and experience but once you have mastered it, it is very satisfying and thoroughly enjoyable.

I know it might sound a bit daunting but many of us travel the rivers every year for the sheer pleasure of wide open water and wild scenery

 

Alex

[ditchcrawler]

ah - somebody who knows their OB's

I thought they WHERE the mud weights

 

ah - somebody who knows their OB's

I thought they WHERE the mud weights

[LEO]

Hi,

 

It pays to be careful at all times - especially rivers and canals where rivers flow in and out - I recall about 12 years ago a cloudburst in the Midlands (Stratford area?) caused widespread flooding affecting the River Avon and the GU at Stoke Bruerne, here the River Tove rose rapidly and several narrowboats ended up in adjacent fields.

 

The Water rushed on through Northampton and here a boat was sunk by the current pinning a boat to a bridge pier. Sadly a woman was drowned in the incident.

 

According to BW and an electrician appointed by them, moorers at Cowroast are in danger of the canal flooding.............

 

Leo

[Dorlan]

Hi,

 

It pays to be careful at all times - especially rivers and canals where rivers flow in and out - I recall about 12 years ago a cloudburst in the Midlands (Stratford area?) caused widespread flooding affecting the River Avon and the GU at Stoke Bruerne, here the River Tove rose rapidly and several narrowboats ended up in adjacent fields.

 

<snip>

Below Stroke Bruerne locks in the floods of 1998...

 

 

 

 

 

[PeterScott]

We moored on an innocent bit of canal approaching Sheffield (by Ickles Lock) and by the time we were four feet above the towpath

the Sheffield Keel was straining on its stern mooring which eventually parted, allowing many tons of boat to swing round in the stream, to the trepidation of the raft of boats tied together above Ickles Loch fifty yards downstream of it.

Fortunately the bow mooring held, about the time this graffito on the bridge

was at its maximum water level. In the morning when the waters had relented

can see the flood level and the Sheffield Keel at a crazy angle stuck on the towpath. There was a boat sunk at it moorings opposite us as the waters rose, and one boater fell in and was lucky to survive. The occupants of the lock cottage left with water at kneel level

and it eventually reached window level. On the Wednesday the local radio replayed my interview as its first item, ahead of other things happening - Tony Blair's last day as Prime Minister. Overall an unforgettable experience.

[Alan Saunders]

. . . Is it dangerous to have a boat 90degrees to flow . . .

If the boat is longer than the navigable width of the waterway, yes.

 

Imagine that it is Christmas week and the Kennet is flowing well. Single-handed you decide to wind where the river joins the canal. Fearing that you may damage the cabin on the low bridge over the river you fail to use sufficient throttle and after 270 degrees of the turn your 70' boat is damming the cut. Fortunately there is sufficient depth of water and wide shallows either side so the boat is not swamped. The bow is far from the bank. It would be possible to leap from the stern onto the bank but not to leap back aboard.

 

Lengthen the bow rope, attach a light line with a weight (club hammer) at the other end and chuck the weight on to the nearby lock island. Deploy long (10') gang-plank at stern. Cross to bank, retrieve plank. Cross lock to lock island and haul in bow rope. Belay bow rope on bollard. Push, pull, tug rope with no lasting effect. Roll a fag and consider the situation.

 

Passing local comes to the rescue! With a turn round the bollard, he takes up the slack each time I manage to move the bow closer and more rapidly closer. Buy bottle of whisky and deliver to my saviour.s home - a caravan on some unclaimed land.

 

Consider alternative outcomes. As I said, imagine; there was only one witness! Those nice, tame little summer rivers can bite when they flow.

 

Alan