Average Length

[Sunset Rising]

I know, how long is a piece of string.

 

I am planning the layout for a new sailaway which I will order early next year but it gets a bit difficult until I know the actual cabin length and I havent decided who is going to build it yet.

 

So what I need to know is..... is there an average length for a cruiser stern and bow section of a boat ? If I know that then I can work out the probable cabin length.

 

Or

 

Another way of looking at it would be to plan the cabin and see what length I need and then add the average stern and bow to arrive at the necessary boat length.

 

So, if you woldn't mind, could you all pop out with a tape measure for me ?

 

Ta muchly.

[Phil Ambrose]

I know, how long is a piece of string.

 

I am planning the layout for a new sailaway which I will order early next year but it gets a bit difficult until I know the actual cabin length and I havent decided who is going to build it yet.

 

So what I need to know is..... is there an average length for a cruiser stern and bow section of a boat ? If I know that then I can work out the probable cabin length.

 

Or

 

Another way of looking at it would be to plan the cabin and see what length I need and then add the average stern and bow to arrive at the necessary boat length.

 

So, if you woldn't mind, could you all pop out with a tape measure for me ?

 

Ta muchly.

 

 

We sort of went through this exercise when we were planning on either a sailaway or 2nd hand boat but for a Semi trad. We managed to arrive at a figure of O/A length minus 13ft, this being the combined length of sterndeck and bowdeck. I guess the lengths work about right because boats tend to be built so they "look right" I think a semi trad would probably have a very similar length of sterndeck as a cruiser except that part of it would be enclosed by the side walls (were the seats are) Oh should have said our O/A is 60ft.

 

Phil

[Bill]

Our 50 footer has a 35 foot cabin (liverpool boat), Stern is 8ft, front end 7ft. Seems to look about right. If I had the option I would lose another foot from the front and add it to the stern as we do spend a lot of time on the rear deck sitting out, fishing etc etc

[Sunset Rising]

Thanks Paul. I had been working on an arbitary combined length of 14 feet so not far off. Trouble is that when you walk along a towpath you see an awful lot of variations.

 

Cruiser stern/semi trad ( I think I want cruiser but not totally decided yet ) would, I assume, depend on size of engine/sterngear etc but I haven't seen down many 'enginoles' to know how much wriggle room you need down there.

 

Life would be so much easier is there were standard sizes..... but then I probably wouldn't want one

 

Our 50 footer has a 35 foot cabin (liverpool boat), Stern is 8ft, front end 7ft. Seems to look about right. If I had the option I would lose another foot from the front and add it to the stern as we do spend a lot of time on the rear deck sitting out, fishing etc etc

 

There you go Bill, demonstates my point.

 

You make a good point about the fishing. I can see us using the stern more than the bow.... though the OH reckons she may be up in the bow fending us off all the boats I will crash into

 

Does that 8 feet give you much room around the engine ?

Edited November 5, 2010 by Sunset Rising

[blackrose]

On my 57' cruiser stern widebeam I "lost" 9' at each end, leaving me with 39' of cabin or around 38'6" internal cabin length. It's enough to make you want to change your mind and order a trad stern!

[Bill]

You make a good point about the fishing. I can see us using the stern more than the bow.... though the OH reckons she may be up in the bow fending us off all the boats I will crash into

 

Does that 8 feet give you much room around the engine ?

 

Plenty, I tend to lift one of the boards (our deck boards split 75/25 front to rear) and dangle in for stuff like ckecking oil levels etc. For more major stuff i climb in and either sit astride the engine (when its cold obviously) or sit to one side and do the work from there. Once you are under the level of the deck it is quite spaceous and surprisingly comfy if you take a cushion in with you.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Bill

[blackrose]

Thanks Paul. I had been working on an arbitary combined length of 14 feet so not far off. Trouble is that when you walk along a towpath you see an awful lot of variations.

 

Cruiser stern/semi trad ( I think I want cruiser but not totally decided yet ) would, I assume, depend on size of engine/sterngear etc but I haven't seen down many 'enginoles' to know how much wriggle room you need down there.

 

Life would be so much easier is there were standard sizes..... but then I probably wouldn't want one

 

 

 

There you go Bill, demonstates my point.

 

You make a good point about the fishing. I can see us using the stern more than the bow.... though the OH reckons she may be up in the bow fending us off all the boats I will crash into

 

Does that 8 feet give you much room around the engine ?

 

Which builder is building your sailaway? Don't they have a boat in production that you can look at? They must have some drawings at least?

 

Access to engines and batteries, etc. on some NBs is no joke - and that applies to some trads too. I'd have a good look before you commit your money. When's the next canal boat show? Probably not until Crick next May...

[Sunset Rising]

Which builder is building your sailaway? Don't they have a boat in production that you can look at? They must have some drawings at least?

 

I haven't chosen a builder yet, seems a bit pointless until I know what I want. I was rather assuning that I would be able to choose the bow and stern ( or cabin ) length - within given oarametres.

 

I am leaning towards a stern long enough to give me decent room around the engine ( small I'm not ) but dont really know what that means in actual feet and inches.

[blackrose]

I haven't chosen a builder yet, seems a bit pointless until I know what I want. I was rather assuning that I would be able to choose the bow and stern ( or cabin ) length - within given oarametres.

 

I am leaning towards a stern long enough to give me decent room around the engine ( small I'm not ) but dont really know what that means in actual feet and inches.

 

Some builders are more flexible than others - the more expensive ones make fully bespoke boats, while budget bulders give you a more limited range of options. Make some appointments and visit a few builders to see what they do, but bear in mind it's not just the space in the engine hole that's important, but also where some Herbert decides to locate your batteries or calorifier!

[david and julie]

but dont really know what that means in actual feet and inches.

Ours is a true 2 berth semi trad narrowboat, (we can accomodate 5 when using temporary arrangements).

 

The overall length is 53ft which more or less gives - 35' cabin - 6' Bowdeck and 4' gas locker, this leaves about 8' for the stern/engine room area which is then divided, more or less, 50/50. There is no shortage of space around the engine etc - even with a bulky generator in there.

 

What looks right is obviously subjective, but my thoughts are that whilst a short bow may look OK on a cruiser I don't think they do on either a trad or a semi trad.

 

We went the other way with ours - even though several people at the time said we were wasting space - and got a 6' bowdeck. My thoughts are that a bow deck that is too short to sensibly use is actually more of a waste of space than a longer one. We also have a cratch & cover so the bow makes a useful dry storage area - particularly in the winter when we don't sit out so much.

 

.

[Dr Bradley]

I have a 57ft cruiser stern. The rear deck is nine feet and from the front doors to the prow is 6ft giving a cabin of 42ft. I went for as much cabin space as possible and this is what my builder came up with. I visited several builders and the cheaper end tended to say "this is what we do". So I went to a mid range builder, who provided me with what I wanted, plus all sorts of things I didn't know I wanted but did. Very happy with the result. The well deck can just seat four (if it wasn't full of wood, conatiners, plants and assorted rubbish). I can access all parts of the engine, though some bits with a squeeze. The tightness of space is more to do with width and height than length. In retrospect, I would probably have sought a deck that would all lift instead of a central hatch. That would provide much better access to the engine bay - but then nobody gets there first boat spot on I think.

 

Advice from others to see boats and builders is true. The more boats I looked at the more ideas of what I wanted developed. Builders usually know what they are doing and can sort the desirable from the ridiculous. You will also get an idea of how much your dream is going to cost, and which builders can provide it, and to what timescale. Some I spoke to were talking of up to three years for a slot. I eventually ordered in April and delivered in September.

 

When it comes to fit out, workout a generous budget, add 10% for things you hadn't thought of, then double it. Cheap it ain't. I could have had a "fully fitted" boat for not much more than my sailaway + fitout. But the equipment would have been to a lower spec and it would have been what the builder builds, not what I designed (which probably means it's resale value is next to nowt. )

[sociable_hermit]

If you're worried about access for maintenance then a cruiser or semi-trad stern isn't necessarily better than a trad. At least with a modern trad (i.e. engine at the stern) the engine is normally enclosed in a wooden box which can be left in place for simple jobs but removed if you need to do anything more involved. With the frame removed there's a reasonable amount of space. With cruisers and semi-trads the same obstacles are still in the way but very often they're metal and can't be moved. Getting into the engine bay from above is also trickier than being on the same level to start with.

 

For the ultimate in access have your engine in a proper engine room!

[RLWP]

If you're worried about access for maintenance then a cruiser or semi-trad stern isn't necessarily better than a trad. At least with a modern trad (i.e. engine at the stern) the engine is normally enclosed in a wooden box which can be left in place for simple jobs but removed if you need to do anything more involved. With the frame removed there's a reasonable amount of space. With cruisers and semi-trads the same obstacles are still in the way but very often they're metal and can't be moved. Getting into the engine bay from above is also trickier than being on the same level to start with.

 

For the ultimate in access have your engine in a proper engine room!

 

I don't understand what you are trying to say here. There are no boxes or frames around an engine in a cruiser stern

 

Richard

[deletedaccount]

Some builders are more flexible than others - the more expensive ones make fully bespoke boats, while budget bulders give you a more limited range of options. Make some appointments and visit a few builders to see what they do, but bear in mind it's not just the space in the engine hole that's important, but also where some Herbert decides to locate your batteries or calorifier!

 

this is a very good point.

 

One thing I've noticed is that some builders put engines in well marinised/positioned and easily maintained, others don't. You just get a mess of wires and some batteries you can't reach.

[Chalky]

Our 40' Liverpool trad has a 25' cabin. When We first decided to fit our own boat the view was that we needed about 58'. After visiting many brokerages and seeing the superb space utilisation on some boats we came up with a design that fitted into 40'. It was seeing a 29' boat that slept 4 comfortably that made me re-look at priorities and package. Our 40'er sleeps 5 in full size beds, yet in the day is open and spacious, however it's not a live aboard.

 

One advantage of a trad stern is that the engine room gives you a place to put all of the electrics, plumbing, ropes, pins etc that would have to go into the cabin on a cruiser stern. Depending on the design it may even be space that can be won back - steps over the engine, beds over batteries, "cupboards" with the swim inside them etc. Not traditional, but space efficient.

[Grebe]

Our 26ft Sea Otter has 16ft of cabin and about 5ft at both bow and stern. However the taper to the bow begins just forwards of the front cabin windows meaning the cabin has a slight taper at the front edge.

 

Our transom is flat rather than the more usual curve/ellipse favoured by most builders. This gives a lot of space in the engine bay. We are and remain devotees of cruiser type sterns.

 

 

Mal

[ditchcrawler]

Our 50 footer has a 35 foot cabin (liverpool boat), Stern is 8ft, front end 7ft. Seems to look about right. If I had the option I would lose another foot from the front and add it to the stern as we do spend a lot of time on the rear deck sitting out, fishing etc etc

That raises an important point, how you plan to use the boat. I wish our front deck had been 3 feet longer.

 

Some builders are more flexible than others - the more expensive ones make fully bespoke boats, while budget bulders give you a more limited range of options. Make some appointments and visit a few builders to see what they do, but bear in mind it's not just the space in the engine hole that's important, but also where some Herbert decides to locate your batteries or calorifier!

Or even go and look at some second hand ones for sale. That way you will see how much space X feet actually gives you and you may even see one you like enough to buy and be on the water next year.

[sharpness]

I am planning the layout for a new sailaway............

 

Or

 

Another way of looking at it would be to plan the cabin and see what length I need and then add the average stern and bow to arrive at the necessary boat length.

 

 

Thats how we did it. We decided we needed 8ft for the bedroom with fixed double, 6ft for bathroom, 6ft for kitchen & 10ft for lounge which gave us a cabin length of 30ft. In effect we asked for a cabin length of 30ft which with a trad stern gave us a boat length of 45ft.

Works a treat.

 

Steve

[Phil Ambrose]

Having read this thread and having spent 9 years living on a 40ft X 12ft Broads cruiser now traded in for a 60ft semi trad, I have come to the conclusion that boat layout is not an exact science and is purely upto the individual.

For my own part my boat has a lobby at foot of stern steps, cupboards with C/H boiler and airing cupboard all boaty stuff, inverter, batt charger, etc etc and full size 12v freezer. Next off corridor is toilet/shower room. We dont really have a bedroom as such, a wardrobe recessed off corridor then bed which I built to leave a decent crawl space under, then the galley with full size 12v fridge washing machine, units to both port and stb sided then into saloon with built in units coffee table and sofa bed, this leads to another lobby with wall cupboards and tumble dryer, front doors to bow deck,

There is nothing fancy about our boat but we have made best use of all the available space and it is practical for living on. My mate who lives on a very pretty 57 footer, all stained glass etc, posh dinette but zip in the way of storage commented when he first came aboard "Blimey it's like a Tardis"

The moral is just make your boat to suit you and ignore conventions

 

Phil

[Tiny]

We started planning for a 30' but it growed into a 52' one with a 38' cabin. The proportions work OK but then you need to balance window position and even paint job to get it all to blend in. Then there is the build itself for boats by one builder might not look totally right for you.

[Keeping Up]

On our 67-footer, which was going to be 65ft but it kept "growing" during the design phase, the bow is 8ft and the stern is 7ft. We're very happy with those dimensions.

 

 

 

Click here for a full-size plan.

Edited November 6, 2010 by Keeping Up

[Madmark62]

Approximately 6 inches

[Sunset Rising]

Thanks for all your input guys. This obviously needs a deal of thought but its nice to know that my original thoughts were along the right lines.

 

 

 

On our 67-footer, which was going to be 65ft but it kept "growing" during the design phase, the bow is 8ft and the stern is 7ft. We're very happy with those dimensions.

 

 

 

Click here for a full-size plan.

 

Thanks for that. I have been using the same planner on Waterways World. A bit restrictive but useful....... but I see you have it on your own website, how come ?

 

Approximately 6 inches

???

Bragging ?

[Keeping Up]

 

Thanks for that. I have been using the same planner on Waterways World. A bit restrictive but useful....... but I see you have it on your own website, how come ?

 

 

 

Yes it is a bit restrictive, and it came along a bit late; the boat was originally planned 20 years ago in pencil on sheets of squared paper, and then I was delighted to watch a man walking along a sheet of steel with a piece of chalk in his hand, doing a bigger version of the same thing before cutting the baseplate. But it was a useful way of capturing an image of what we have.

 

I planned it on the WW site, and then just did a screen-clipping to copy the final image and save as a jpg

[Sunset Rising]

I planned it on the WW site, and then just did a screen-clipping to copy the final image and save as a jpg

 

Ahh. I thought perhaps it was a freely available program. Could do with a free/cheap better version