Unpleasant hire boater

[Guest]

The answer was in my reply. We have yet to be hit by another boat in 2 years of owning NC (or that we know of). Even when sharing locks we have yet to be struck by another boat.

 

Then I think you have been very lucky.

 

- for the record though If I share with a GRP boat I always suggest we go in first - just in case, and normally the GRP skipper happily goes with our suggestion.

[Naughty Cal]

Then I think you have been very lucky.

 

- for the record though If I share with a GRP boat I always suggest we go in first - just in case, and normally the GRP skipper happily goes with our suggestion.

 

That is the sensible way to do it, then let the cruiser out first. It doesnt always work to plan though especially in some of the Trent locks where the lockie ushers you in in the order he wants you. Usually GRP first steel last but not always depending on how the lock has loaded, being a small boat they tend to send us in to fill in gaps between bigger boats. It does seem to be the owners of steel boats who are more worried about sharing locks with GRP boats though. Why is that?

[magpie patrick]

That is the sensible way to do it, then let the cruiser out first. It doesnt always work to plan though especially in some of the Trent locks where the lockie ushers you in in the order he wants you. Usually GRP first steel last but not always depending on how the lock has loaded, being a small boat they tend to send us in to fill in gaps between bigger boats. It does seem to be the owners of steel boats who are more worried about sharing locks with GRP boats though. Why is that?

 

Given that I currently own one of each, and had to take Ripple into a lock on the Droitwich Canal that already had a 21 foot wooden boat in it, I'm probably reasonably well qualified to answer that one.

 

I know when Juno is safe, and if anything goes wrong then it's my error of judgement affecting my boat. So far I've suggested the steel boats go in first, and they have, and I'm okay. If a steel boat owner suggested a modus operandi I wasn't happy with, I'd either hang back and wait or tell them they weren't coming in with me if I was first.

 

In a steel boat if I make a mistake it's the fibreglass one that's going to get damaged, and I'm not entirely comfortable with that.

 

I have pointed out to several people though, that Ripple needs a hull inspection for insurance purposes on her 20th Birthday, and Juno not until her 40th...

[Naughty Cal]

Thats just it. GRP doesnt explode at the slightest knock despite what some steel boat owners choose to believe. That said it is nice when they take care whilst manouvering in close quarters, we like to see their faces as they concentrate not to hit anything or anyone.

[alan_fincher]

Thats just it. GRP doesnt explode at the slightest knock despite what some steel boat owners choose to believe.

Quite correct!

 

There is actually quite a skill to hitting it at just the weakest point, with just the right angle, and enough force, (but not so much as to not be able to claim it was an accident.......)

 

Not easily learnt, but I'd urge our less skilled steel boat owners to practice - there is nothing quite like the sound of cracking fibreglass, once you have mastered it!......

[Naughty Cal]

Quite correct!

 

There is actually quite a skill to hitting it at just the weakest point, with just the right angle, and enough force, (but not so much as to not be able to claim it was an accident.......)

 

Not easily learnt, but I'd urge our less skilled steel boat owners to practice - there is nothing quite like the sound of cracking fibreglass, once you have mastered it!......

 

Great advice.

[Chertsey]

That is the sensible way to do it, then let the cruiser out first. It doesnt always work to plan though especially in some of the Trent locks where the lockie ushers you in in the order he wants you. Usually GRP first steel last but not always depending on how the lock has loaded, being a small boat they tend to send us in to fill in gaps between bigger boats. It does seem to be the owners of steel boats who are more worried about sharing locks with GRP boats though. Why is that?

I always say to the GRPers, I'm more scared of you than you are of me.

[Mac of Cygnet]

I took it you meant something along the lines of straws and camels' backs, no?

[Mick and Maggie]

Whilst i agree that this geezer was rude and aggressive and all of those things, I can't help but think that in my area if I went up to a police officer and reported that somebody bumped into my boat,scratched some paint before giving me the bird, then they would laugh and probably tell me to jog on. As unpleasent as it is, I'd rather see coppers investigating some of the real crimes that happen in these parts and not doing hours of paper work about some rattled tea cups.

 

I wonder what the Association of Chief Police Officers think about tackling anti-social behaviour?

 

Ref:070/10 September 23, 2010

ACPO response to HMIC report on anti-social behaviour

 

ACPO lead on anti-social behaviour.

Assistant Chief Constable Simon Edens said: “Chief officers are acutely aware of the devastating impact anti-social behaviour can have in neighbourhoods when it is not tackled, particularly where repeat and vulnerable victims are involved. We will continue to work tirelessly to improve our response. What this report highlights is that where there is police action, victim satisfaction in the police response to anti-social behaviour is high. As HMIC recognises, modern policing has to meet a hugely complex range of challenges. Tackling anti-social behaviour must be achieved alongside keeping people safe through less visible parts of policing such as tackling serious organised crime or terrorism. Anti-social behaviour is not a matter for the police to tackle alone, and the service supports the Government’s approach to encouraging greater personal and community involvement in neighbourhoods.”

 

ACPO have an assistant chief constable leading on just this issue. The Police can't tackle anti-social behaviour unless the community get involved, you get involved by reporting it. I don't think it can be made much more plain than in the above ACPO Press release sent a few days ago.

 

However, its not the first time ACPO have published a press release on ASB.

 

Ref:017/10 March 11, 2010

ACPO statement on anti-social behaviour

 

ACPO lead on anti-social behaviour Assistant Chief Constable Simon Edens said:

 

"Chief Officers recognize that what people want most for the community in which they live, is to feel safe in the homes they live in, and on the streets they walk. We know that anti-social behaviour matters to the public and that the police service is the only 24-hour, 365 day per year resource that the public can turn to. Of the 3,600 neighbourhood policing teams across the country, most if not all of them will have anti-social behaviour as a top or high priority. Information sharing is critical to dealing effectively with ASB and that includes between local partners as well as within the police service. As policing prepares for straitened financial times difficult decisions on priorities lie ahead and it is vital that others, including councils, housing providers and parents continue to work closely with us if we are to improve our response to the public in this crucial area. As a police service we are universally committed to a local focus on policing which deals with what matters in every street and neighbourhood."

 

 

Their standpoint is at odds with yours.

 

Mick and Mags.

[RichardH]

Yes, they are in the business of hiring out boats. They are NOT however in the business of doing so indiscriminately.

 

They brobably don't take all male or all female parties, due to potential damage, and if they had any sense, they would appreciate that the costs involved in dealing with the fall-out from such a hirer probably outweighs the profit they make.

 

I can confirm we would adopt this line. To the best of our knowledge their have only been a couple of guests over the past few years that would fall into the category of 'Mr Harvey'

 

We also take a £250 damage deposit and if, on inspection, damage had been caused the repair would come from this.

 

I think it is fair to point out that the vast majority of hirers do not fall into this category and for every tale of hirer rudeness, we could match with a private boater moment of insanity

[Guest]

 

We also take a £250 damage deposit and if, on inspection, damage had been caused the repair would come from this.

 

 

I think most if not all hire companies do the same and I guess most show the same flexibility as Napton Narrow boats showed us when we returned Helena last April without the wooden handle on her tiller - which we managed to snap off against a lock gate whilst attempting to single gate - no mention of any deduction from our damage deposit when we reported it.

 

Not sure what would have happened if somebody had claimed we'd damaged their boat, how would that be verified before you took our £250...

[Alan Saunders]

I am confident that I can slip alongside any boat, steel, plastic or plywood, in a lock, without contact. so long as you have patience. Seeing outboards, outdrives and gas cylinders with inadequate or no protection ahead of my bow makes me ultra-cautious! Six tons, 33' is laterally unstable but easy to stop; 70', 25 ton is laterally stable but difficult to stop!

 

I have shared locks with outboard driven boats whose steerers insisted that I (6 ton) follow them in. If I were them I would not be so trusting in my ability!

 

I have been rammed by a hire boat - the people in the bow were very apologetic, saying they had disowned the steerer! Happy holidays!

One of the Bruce Boats (Great Bedwyn) removed my canopy hooks when I was moored and they had 40' of canal available to them.

The ultimate insult was my (new) cabin paintwork dented by a steel tipped pole wielded from the bow of a boat exiting a K&A lock. I was moored, tight to the side, and they managed twenty 'dings' whilst using their mobile 'phone. My 'Put your stick away' resulted in a string of abuse from the steerer.

 

Sadly, cruising the Inland Waterways is not all 'joy and light'. Did I mention the guy who hogged the water-point in Devizes? Said he would chuck me in the canal and had done the same to others? Fortunately, for him, he did not attempt this feat. Probably fortunate for me too; a manslaughter charge could have spoiled our family holiday. Not sure if I was pleased with my wife's suggestion, paraphrased, that he was unsure of his masculinity. This follwed his assertion that his 'big boat' would crush my 'little boat'.

 

Going back further (1978) there was the 'Water Cowboy' (written on the boat, single handing a trad. motor, he ran aground but when we passed in our hire boat grabbed our bow line. He was totally unconcerned by the pain as it trapped his fingers or the fact that three big Essex blokes on our boat wanted to take him apart. Their Essex girlfriends insisted that such bloodshed would spoil their holiday.

 

'Be careful out there', Essex Girls Rule - OK!

Alan

 

 

 

If I see 'Golden Oriel' moored up should I pass by quietly or motor my breasted boats past them at maximum power?

 

Recently all boats passing my mooring have reduced speed (some a little late) but none caused me any inonvenience.

 

Alan

(Waiting for 'Golden Auriole' to pull my pins and save me the trouble)

[LoneWolf]

Which is as it should be.

 

Accidents happen, and an apology puts 99% of accidents right.

 

However, when people start to assume that they have a right to hit other boats, whether by genuine accident or due to gross neglect, and not offer an apology, they do need to be made to understand that their behaviour is not acceptable.

 

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

I've been hit 3 times today (well i am on the Llangollen) the first 2 apologised & got a 'no worries' with the fending off. The last one, who gave me a right clout with his bow because he was trying to get his stern to the bank to soon and too fast, looked the other way while i fended him off (wifey scuttled inside as soon as she got on) and ignored me until he was just past then said "oh did i touch you?" to my obviously-going-to-say-something-soon face. he got my opinion of him with added swears*.

 

I've called hire firms and asked them to call specific hirers & remind them of the importance of not tearing up the bank with their breaking wash when a friendly reminder has been met with abuse. It's easy enough to do, the numbers written on the boat usually (& in Nicholsons if they're going too fast). It probably has as much effect as calling them about rude hirers but you never know. At least i'm doing what i can then forgetting it rather than just having a rant on the internets.

 

 

 

* edited to add: this is wrong & not big or clever just in case anyone thinks i am condoning calling people names & swearing. which i am not, no matter how satisfying it felt

Edited October 4, 2010 by LoneWolf

[Bob the welder]

Is it?

 

Are you firmly in the camp that says that nothing should be done about people who engage in low-level bullying behaviour towards their fellow men?

 

I have to ask the question though;

 

If the hire company KNOWS how this person behaves, why on earth have they accepted his booking?

££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££.bob

[Teadaemon]

Yes, they are in the business of hiring out boats. They are NOT however in the business of doing so indiscriminately.

 

They brobably don't take all male or all female parties, due to potential damage, and if they had any sense, they would appreciate that the costs involved in dealing with the fall-out from such a hirer probably outweighs the profit they make.

 

Ok, it's on the Broads rather than canals, but since April I've been working for a small, independent (i.e. not through Blakes or Hoseasons), yard that hires motor cruisers and dayboats, operating from a base in the busiest part of the Broads (Horning, to be specific).

 

We will quite happily take single-sex parties, or parties of teenagers aged 18 or more, though we do charge a discretionary £50 per head damage/cleaning deposit (which is more likely to be forfeited for leaving the boat like a tip than it is for damage to somebody else's boat). If we chose not to hire to those parties, our bookings would be noticeably lower (though they're still a minority of our bookings, most of which are couples and families). We also charge a non-refundable damage waiver, which covers accidental damage to our boat or anyone else's boat (but it's made very clear to people that it doesn't cover negligence or intentional damage, in previous years we have pursued hirers through the courts for the full cost of damage caused through negligence).

 

So far this year, I can't recall hearing about a single instance of somebody calling the yard to complain that their boat had been hit by one of our hire boats. That's not to say that it hasn't happened (it might have occurred when there was nobody on board the private boat, for example), but it certainly isn't common. All of our boats have bumps, scrapes, and in some cases big chunks knocked out of them, mostly as a result of collisions with quay heading, marker posts, bridges, or trees. Single-sex or young parties do not appear to cause a disproportionate amount of this kind of damage, and the amount of previous experience claimed by hirers also seems to bear little relation to what the boat looks like when it comes back. I would also note that one of the bigger holes we've had to deal with was definitely the result of the boat being hit from behind by a yacht's bowsprit, which almost certainly means that our hirers were run down by a private boat.

[Bobbybass]

Accordinging to the new discrimination laws etc that came into powere this week...where you can claim discrimination even if it doesn't affect you...you may have a claim against the hire company even if they were not witness to it.

You could claim that even though you were not a d**k head....by calling you a f**k**g d**k head...he was being abusive against the people who are d**k Heads...and you were offended on their behalf !

 

Bob

[Guest]

the result of the boat being hit from behind by a yacht's bowsprit, which almost certainly means that our hirers were run down by a private boat.

 

sorry I'm missing something - since when have bow sprits being the exclusive domain of private yacht's - hire yacht's have them too don't they - in fact if you're in Horning you'll know the yacht's NBYC hire out are so equipped.

 

http://www.norfolk-broads.com/boats/index.php

 

 

 

 

..

Edited October 5, 2010 by MJG

[Naughty Cal]

Could be worse. Could have been hit by these clowns

 

Edited October 5, 2010 by Phylis

[sebrof]

Could be worse. Could have been hit by these clowns

 

here

 

 

That's what happens when you put a woman on the wheel. :-)

[jenlyn]

That's what happens when you put a woman on the wheel. :-)

 

especially one called phylis

[Kentboycamper2]

After pootling along the Kennet and Avon for the last few weeks I can see how incidents like this can happen.

 

Too many boats - especially around the Bath area - with too few moorings on a canal which especially in Summer carries too much traffic for it's size.

 

I am a considerate boater, pass boats at tick over and even I got a mouthful of swears from a boat who leaned out of his window to tell me I was going too fast. Strangely enough he didn't take up my offer to come and discuss the matter on dry land when I moored up. I imagine he had spent most of the day shouting at hireboaters as they went back and fro. The even stranger think was that three weeks later when I passed him on the way back his boat hadn't moved - I imagine he is one of the K&A's legion of ahem 'continuous cruisers'.

 

One point I will make is that I only saw a BW worker once in all that time - checking boat numbers on the moorings by the Bath locks. Could it possible that the folks in Bath don't like to see boats overstay their welcome? He would have been better engaged chatting to hire boaters and giving them some boat sense, making sure people moor with some consideration for others and don't hog two moorings etc when they only need one. Even the regulars on the K&A are guilty of that one and it wouldn't take much to sort - a few words in a few ears.

 

Kentboy

[Naughty Cal]

especially one called phylis

 

I have never hit another boat nor pulled of such a shockingly poor manouvre as that.

 

PS: You may both need to get your eyes tested. The person at the wheel is male!!

[GSer]

The person at the wheel is male!!

He was getting in touch with his feminine side!

[Djuwenda]

There is hardly ever a need to return agression/threats.

 

Not when I know which way you are headed, which bridge you'll pass under and how full my cassette is.

[Mick and Maggie]

Bringing this back round to the topic.

 

Now I know why the Police are keen to get their teeth into some of the Anti-Social Element.

 

It came as something of a surprise to hear on the radio. That most Police forces stand accused of failure over dealing with and recording anti-social behaviour. The chief inspector of constabulary (Denis O'Connor) has been critical of the way the police in England and Wales deal with complaints of anti-social behaviour. O'Connor said "The failure to properly record and tackle incidents undermined confidence in the police" He also called for urgent improvements. His comments came as the inspectorate published "report cards" on the performance of all 43 of the UK forces. The inspectorate found the way police databases logged information about reports of harassment, vandalism and verbal abuse was "inadequate". Most police computer systems were unable to identify people who had been victims before or had previously been categorised as "vulnerable". Mr O'Connor said: "It is like going back to the doctors' surgery but you see a different doctor every time. The more times they suffer the less confidence people have. There are some heart-rending stories."

 

M and M