Not much sole!

[soldthehouse]

At that rate the OP's 2.5 x 5 would be £685 in 10mm thickness, the last steel I bought cost me £800/tonne which would make it £780 (or £916 inc. VAT) & I'd expect his guy to want at least a small markup.

Two men for 3 weeks would eat up the £7500 at a fairly modest yard rate of £30/hour, or reduce the time and add in lifting or docking charges, then there's all the cutting, welding and grinding supplies which will be several hundreds.

 

If doubling the existing bottom, the old and new should be plug welded together at intervals. It may well be that the existing is too thin at the edges to weld to directly, so more work has to be done on the chine. Etc Etc...., these jobs are never as simple as they might at first appear.

 

I'm not trying to justify the quote, but it's not hard to see how it's arrived at.

 

Tim

Two men for three weeks, Gadzooks!!! Theyre not replating the Forth bridge Tim, you are experienced and realize that things are never a simple as at face value but, a more realistic price with the proviso for an increase if unforseen things occur would seem fairer, seems a tad harsh to cover all eventuallities in the quote when I doubt that a deduction would be made if everything went like clockwork.

 

Based on those figures what is the material costs for my 27ft springer 4mm plate complete plating have been quoted £4000 plus vat to do the work inc materials.

 

its sad to hear that a boat may be broken but you never know it may not be as bad as you think mine is though but fortunately i knew and budgeted for it when buying fingers crossed for you

4mm steel plate cost to someone buying regularly will be £22 per square metre + vat at the current rate plus any other costs that can be added!! Labour and blacking. If you strip it out yourself this will save too.

[Naughty Cal]

When you had your survey done 12 months ago did they not note any problems at that point. It seems a little odd that the boat should go from being fine to needing replating in the space of 12 months.

[parasal]

Not much onthe helpful advice front, but do price the job from several boatyards- include Roger Farrington at Braunston slip as he has much experience in re-bottoming. He has just done Satellite- another ME Braine conversion.

 

On a slightly different note, if you would like some history around your J2's cylinders, liners, pistons and heads PM me. For my part I'd like to know how they are doing.

 

N

That's so weird-she is the other part of satellite! Must have been a bad year!

[Timleech]

Two men for three weeks, Gadzooks!!! Theyre not replating the Forth bridge Tim, you are experienced and realize that things are never a simple as at face value but, a more realistic price with the proviso for an increase if unforseen things occur would seem fairer, seems a tad harsh to cover all eventuallities in the quote when I doubt that a deduction would be made if everything went like clockwork.

 

I did say I wasn't trying to justify the quote, just suggesting how it might have been arrived at

A job like that is really 1.5 man rather than two, so it would depend how efficient the yard is at keeping people busy

 

Tim

[JohnO]

That's so weird-she is the other part of satellite! Must have been a bad year!

GUCCC Satellite was originally composite in construction. Malcolm would have taken the stern and added 46' "new" hull, bottom and motor stern to make Ganymede. The other boat would be I guess 50' of GUCCC Satellite with a motor stern added and a steel bottom, making both base plates the same age, circa 1974. I don't have any information here at hand but 1974 -76 I can't remember.

[Speedwheel]

Satellite was done in 73. Ganymead was 14ft of the backend IIRC and the rest became Satellite. Roger did indeed rebottom Satellite last year. It didn't immediately need doing but for a number of reasons Dave (current owner) decided to get the job done.

 

You would be surprised how little the boat goes down in the water when it has been rebottomed so don't let that put you off. Parasal is not that deep so wouldn't be a problem. If I had it I would want it down a few more inches anyway (as I wanted with Satellite but never got around to adding more ballast).

 

Don't forget to get the footings checked too.

 

Mark (ex owner of Satellite)

[steamraiser2]

I think that there is a danger of underestimating what is needed to rebottom your boat properly. I have seen more than one boat repaired by sitting it on a prefabricated replacement sole plate and welding all the way round. Certainly its a cheap (ish!) way of doing it but there is little structural integrity in it. The new sole plate really needs to be fixed to the old one at various points across the width of the boat. I've seen slots cut through the old sole plate under the floor close to the cross bearers enabling the welder to weld the new sole plate to the crossmembers and old plate at the same time. Much stronger!. The other issue is that accelerated corrosion is likely between the old and new plates. Pre painting /coating the new sole plate will help but not eliminate it. This leads me to suspect the high price suggested may arise from the intention to cut the old sole plate right out and fit a new one. I suppose the options will be driven by how long you intend to keep the boat and how much you want to spend. In my opinion the weld round the outside only method is a bodge that I personally would'nt contemplate. The overplating and internal attachment method is better but not ideal although I'd expect to get at least ten years out of it...but way cheaper than selling your soul for a complete sole plate cut out and replacement, which is the professional and technically correct thing to do...but it all depends on your budget and attachment to your boat. But if you don't sort the generator issue you will be simply wasting your money. Heed your surveyors advice over commercially inspired guidance! Best of luck, be a shame to scrap her.

[Timleech]

I think that there is a danger of underestimating what is needed to rebottom your boat properly. I have seen more than one boat repaired by sitting it on a prefabricated replacement sole plate and welding all the way round. Certainly its a cheap (ish!) way of doing it but there is little structural integrity in it. The new sole plate really needs to be fixed to the old one at various points across the width of the boat. I've seen slots cut through the old sole plate under the floor close to the cross bearers enabling the welder to weld the new sole plate to the crossmembers and old plate at the same time. Much stronger!. The other issue is that accelerated corrosion is likely between the old and new plates. Pre painting /coating the new sole plate will help but not eliminate it. This leads me to suspect the high price suggested may arise from the intention to cut the old sole plate right out and fit a new one. I suppose the options will be driven by how long you intend to keep the boat and how much you want to spend. In my opinion the weld round the outside only method is a bodge that I personally would'nt contemplate. The overplating and internal attachment method is better but not ideal although I'd expect to get at least ten years out of it...but way cheaper than selling your soul for a complete sole plate cut out and replacement, which is the professional and technically correct thing to do...but it all depends on your budget and attachment to your boat. But if you don't sort the generator issue you will be simply wasting your money. Heed your surveyors advice over commercially inspired guidance! Best of luck, be a shame to scrap her.

 

The bold above is the Plug Welding to which I referred.

Often complete replacement of the bottom plate is not a viable option in terms of the value of the boat, I have no idea in this particular case. It is a distinction, between doubling and replacing, which is often overlooked and people do refer to a boat as 're-bottomed' when they really mean overplated or doubled. I agree the latter is a shorter term (and nastier) solution than the former, but as you say done properly can give a very useful extra life.

I think it's important for the OP, and anyone in a similar position, to get quotes which detail the work proposed so they know whether they are comparing like with like.

 

Tim

[steamraiser2]

The bold above is the Plug Welding to which I referred.

Often complete replacement of the bottom plate is not a viable option in terms of the value of the boat, I have no idea in this particular case. It is a distinction, between doubling and replacing, which is often overlooked and people do refer to a boat as 're-bottomed' when they really mean overplated or doubled. I agree the latter is a shorter term (and nastier) solution than the former, but as you say done properly can give a very useful extra life.

I think it's important for the OP, and anyone in a similar position, to get quotes which detail the work proposed so they know whether they are comparing like with like.

 

Tim

 

 

Broadly similar to plug welding but on a larger scale as the slots were generally 150mm long. The other disadvantage was that it was fairly intrusive inside and it was not possible to space out the "stitching" evenly along the length of the boat without wholesale demolition of the interior. It fitted where it touched so to speak.

[Timleech]

Broadly similar to plug welding but on a larger scale as the slots were generally 150mm long. The other disadvantage was that it was fairly intrusive inside and it was not possible to space out the "stitching" evenly along the length of the boat without wholesale demolition of the interior. It fitted where it touched so to speak.

 

It is possible to do this from below, which means you can do it anywhere suitable, I have done it a few times. Not a fun job, though

 

Tim

[FORTUNATA]

Yes, the cheapest option is to place the boat on a new sheet of metal and weld it on like another shoe. I think of it as like an old perforated tin can (of beans for example) that you ram inside a brand new can tightly so it then floats again. The snag is you find water can then get between the two layers of steel, usually from above.

My sympathy to the original poster. It goes to show how galvanic corrosion (if that's what it was) can make a huge dent in your pocket.

My advice? I think he has a number of options. I do think it's not such a big deal to get the boat overplated as I know scores of people who've had it done. It's just a bit costly.

Alternatively if the cost is just too much to contemplate, a brokerage would buy the boat and do the work themselves in order to sell the boat on. This happens all the time.

However, after a bit of bartering and negotiation the O.P. may be able to get a decent job done for an affordable sum. I know someone hwo had his 70 footer done and I also recall parting with the cash was hard going for him although he's now quite happy.

 

I think that there is a danger of underestimating what is needed to rebottom your boat properly. I have seen more than one boat repaired by sitting it on a prefabricated replacement sole plate and welding all the way round. Certainly its a cheap (ish!) way of doing it but there is little structural integrity in it. The new sole plate really needs to be fixed to the old one at various points across the width of the boat. I've seen slots cut through the old sole plate under the floor close to the cross bearers enabling the welder to weld the new sole plate to the crossmembers and old plate at the same time. Much stronger!. The other issue is that accelerated corrosion is likely between the old and new plates. Pre painting /coating the new sole plate will help but not eliminate it. This leads me to suspect the high price suggested may arise from the intention to cut the old sole plate right out and fit a new one. I suppose the options will be driven by how long you intend to keep the boat and how much you want to spend. In my opinion the weld round the outside only method is a bodge that I personally would'nt contemplate. The overplating and internal attachment method is better but not ideal although I'd expect to get at least ten years out of it...but way cheaper than selling your soul for a complete sole plate cut out and replacement, which is the professional and technically correct thing to do...but it all depends on your budget and attachment to your boat. But if you don't sort the generator issue you will be simply wasting your money. Heed your surveyors advice over commercially inspired guidance! Best of luck, be a shame to scrap her.

[parasal]

THE VERDICT.......

 

BUGS!!

 

Theobasicusferrooxi-me bobs! Metal eating critters what live in the water. Still will need a new bottom but within two years, time to save!

For now I can treat the bug with stergene, black her and put her back in and go on my merry way-hooray!

And thanks to your replys I can start to dig out somewhere to get her done that will do the best job!

The only problem remains is where to source stergene as searches bought up seem to imply it's hand cleaner? The surveyor said it was a mild bleach??

[MoominPapa]

THE VERDICT.......

 

BUGS!!

 

Theobasicusferrooxi-me bobs! Metal eating critters what live in the water.

Arrgghh! something else to work about. Are they common in inland waterways? I'd heard of metal-eating bugs munching on the remains of the Titanic, but didn't know that they were a possibility on the canals.

 

MP.

[steamraiser2]

THE VERDICT.......

 

BUGS!!

 

Theobasicusferrooxi-me bobs! Metal eating critters what live in the water. Still will need a new bottom but within two years, time to save!

For now I can treat the bug with stergene, black her and put her back in and go on my merry way-hooray!

And thanks to your replys I can start to dig out somewhere to get her done that will do the best job!

The only problem remains is where to source stergene as searches bought up seem to imply it's hand cleaner? The surveyor said it was a mild bleach??

 

Stergen is a biocide. Look in your supermarket for bleach free toilet cleaner. They are biocides too. Nasty stuff though wear your PPE! do'nt use bleach.

[Tim Doran]

I have just googled Theobasicusferrooxi and come back with no results. Is this some kind of inside joke I dont understand.

 

It sounds like you have had a lucky escape.

 

Tim

[parasal]

I have just googled Theobasicusferrooxi and come back with no results. Is this some kind of inside joke I dont understand.

 

It sounds like you have had a lucky escape.

 

Tim

 

 

Try this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidithiobacillus

 

its actually spelt theobacillus ferrooxide

 

I wish it was a joke-its made a mess of my bottom!

[soldthehouse]

Try this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidithiobacillus

 

its actually spelt theobacillus ferrooxide

 

I wish it was a joke-its made a mess of my bottom!

We only have your word for that!!

[Guest wanted]

We only have your word for that!!

 

Vindaloo?

[RLWP]

Try this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acidithiobacillus

 

its actually spelt theobacillus ferrooxide

 

I wish it was a joke-its made a mess of my bottom!

 

Where in that article does it was that it eats into steel plate?

 

Richard

[WotEver]

... its actually spelt theobacillus ferrooxide

Actually, it's spelt thiobacillus ferric oxide. Thio as in Latin, not theo as in Greek.

 

Tony

[Guest User]

Nearly ... "Thiobacillus ferrooxidans" is the correct spelling, but as it's been reduced to a synonym because the species has been "moved" to a different genus, the current correct name is "Acidithiobacillus ferrooxidans".

 

Taxonomic binomials are based on Latin but can involve Greek and other bits and bobs.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Graham!

[RLWP]

Nearly ... "Thiobacillus ferrooxidans" is the correct spelling, but as it's been reduced to a synonym because the species has been "moved" to a different genus, the current correct name is "Acidithiobacillus ferrooxidans".

 

Taxonomic binomials are based on Latin but can involve Greek and other bits and bobs.

 

Ignoring the taxonomic binomials for now...

 

This stuff about "bugs" eating steel is a bit esoteric. I can only find a few scientific papers on it and no real-life stuff that says it is a common phenomenon

 

example paper

 

Richard

[soldthehouse]

Ignoring the taxonomic binomials for now...

 

This stuff about "bugs" eating steel is a bit esoteric. I can only find a few scientific papers on it and no real-life stuff that says it is a common phenomenon

 

example paper

 

Richard

Yawn

[Guest User]

Ignoring the taxonomic binomials for now...

 

This stuff about "bugs" eating steel is a bit esoteric. I can only find a few scientific papers on it and no real-life stuff that says it is a common phenomenon

 

example paper

 

Richard

 

That's because it is primarily adapted to break down iron compounds (especially ferrous sulfide) rather than refined iron ... "Thiobacillus ferrooxidans is the most common type of bacteria in mine waste piles. This organism is acidophilic (acid loving), and increases the rate of pyrite oxidation in mine tailings piles and coal deposits. It oxidies iron and inorganic sulfur compounds. The oxidation process can be harmful, as it produces sulfuric acid, which is a major pollutant. However, it can also be beneficial in recovering materials such as copper and uranium. " (from Microbe-wiki)

 

Given that its preferred pH is 1.5 to 2.5, and it prefers temperatures of 45-50C as well, it is unlikely to ever thrive in most freshwater habitats !

Edited August 6, 2010 by Graham!

[WotEver]

Ignoring the taxonomic binomials for now...

 

This stuff about "bugs" eating steel is a bit esoteric. I can only find a few scientific papers on it and no real-life stuff that says it is a common phenomenon

 

example paper

 

Richard

I did much the same Googling and came to much the same conclusion. Not a single instance of a report of steel being eaten by bugs.

 

Tony