Rapid Paint - Narrowboat Paint

[alan_fincher]

Long history to this, but I'll try and keep it fairly short.

 

Three years ago we started a less than successful attempt to repaint our boat. For various reasons, including illness, it never got completed, but enough was done to quickly know it was no great success.

 

The paint we were sold by a very well respected chandler ended up being

 

Narrowboat Paint by RapidPaint

 

although we had been aiming to use Craftmaster. Don't ask, (!), but we were assured it was what the yard used for professional repaints, and we were shown some lovely examples of work in progress.

 

We know we didn't do a fine job with this paint, it proved very hard to apply evenly in the conditions we were working in. But equally a lot of work was put in, including taking a fair amount of the boat back to the steel, and building up from there.

 

The paint has not proved resilient, and damages easily, but worse has in many areas lost it's gloss and started to "chalk". This applies to a dark green, as well as the usually more problematic red.

 

We are ready to start again, but have large amounts of this paint still, originally acquired at great cost, which we are naturally reticent to junk, and try again with something else. But we don't want to put in heaps of effort, with no better result.

 

So, has anybody had practical experience of this particular paint brand, whether professionally applied, or as a DIY job. We would be very keen to learn of others experiences, before making what is likely to be expensive decisions whichever way we go at it.

 

Does anyone have ideas about the most likely thing we did wrong to end up with a top-coat finish that has simply failed to be glossy in only a couple of years.

 

Many thanks.

[PhilR]

Does anyone have ideas about the most likely thing we did wrong to end up with a top-coat finish that has simply failed to be glossy in only a couple of years.

 

Many thanks.

 

If it was glossy after application and remained so for a year or so, the premature failure now is most likely due to poor quality paint rather than your workmanship?

[madcat]

Ive had the chalk thing with expensive branded dark green paint.I blamed Allbright n shiny or whatever they call themselves these days,chemical fallout clouds over Oldbury.A big boat cant stay indoors with the windows shut like other residents.

Cant comment on your paint exepept to observe that is paint aint what it used to be in the good old days, and you cant get the wood either !!!!!!

[LEO]

Hi,

 

Do you polish the boat with a good quality product on a regular basis?.

 

Mike.

[WotEver]

Hi Alan,

 

These threads may help:

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...pic=6315&hl

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php...pic=8272&hl

 

Cheers,

Tony

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

Never used it but I seem to recall this paint being introduced as a budget boat paint only available by mail order, and over the years taken on by some chandlers with a huge hike in price.

 

No expert on synthetic paint but there are 3 ways I know of to kill the finish, too much thinner, direct sunlight before its dry, and T-cutting when new. If you didnt do any of these I'd suspect the paint itself.

 

Never used specific boat paint because its so overpriced, I've always used good quality coach paint (PPG or HMG) Dark colours in PPG coach paint will go flat if not cared for, leaving HMG coach paint as the best IMO.

 

Edited to clarify, by direct sunlight I mean the high metal temp produced by it rather than sunllight itself

Edited July 19, 2010 by Radio-Ga-Ga

[dave moore]

Hi

I travel around a lot of yards decorating and signwriting boats and Rapid Paint is in common use by many commercial outfits, almost all of whom work under cover in controlled conditions. Many painters have a paint that they find that they can use successfully and stick to that brand. Working outdoors is hard - conditions are never right!! One customer who did his own swore he'd never do so gain and that professional costs were money well spent!

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

Hi

I travel around a lot of yards decorating and signwriting boats and Rapid Paint is in common use by many commercial outfits, almost all of whom work under cover in controlled conditions. Many painters have a paint that they find that they can use successfully and stick to that brand. Working outdoors is hard - conditions are never right!! One customer who did his own swore he'd never do so gain and that professional costs were money well spent!

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

You could spend thousands,

 

I painted my own outside with coach paint

 

200 quid, which is better?

 

Edited due to lost phone signal leaving unfinished post..

Edited July 19, 2010 by Radio-Ga-Ga

[alan_fincher]

Thanks for your thoughts, all....

 

 

Do you polish the boat with a good quality product on a regular basis?.

No, I'm afraid we don't.

 

But then we never did with the previous finish, which from cans on the boat when we got it appeared to be just a basic trade household enamel. That fared far better than it's replacement has.

 

TBH, if we were to polish it, I think it would simply remove the surface even faster than washing it or even rubbing it with dry clothing currently can.

 

 

Never used it but I seem to recall this paint being introduced as a budget boat paint only available by mail order, and over the years taken on by some chandlers with a huge hike in price.

I don't know. What is the case now is that it ispriced right towards the top. Probably more than the International ranges, and very close to Crsftmaster.

 

No expert on synthetic paint but there are 3 ways I know of to kill the finish, too much thinner, direct sunlight before its dry, and T-cutting when new. If you didnt do any of these I'd suspect the paint itself.

No, none of those, really. A small amount of the "slowing down" additive was generally used, but no thinners, and most of the painting was done under cover. No T-cut or polish since.

 

I travel around a lot of yards decorating and signwriting boats and Rapid Paint is in common use by many commercial outfits, almost all of whom work under cover in controlled conditions. Many painters have a paint that they find that they can use successfully and stick to that brand. Working outdoors is hard - conditions are never right!! One customer who did his own swore he'd never do so gain and that professional costs were money well spent!

Thanks Dave - exactly the kind of info I was after, and the highlighted bit fits in with my impression.

 

Looks like we just did particularly badly then ? No great optimism I'd do better next time, if I don't know how we failed the test.

 

Frankly, as a rank amateur, despite all the hype about the "extra solids" etc in paints like this, and Craftmaster, I actually find it a great deal easier to work with International, or even a non boat specific paint.

 

Given that we can't work out what went wrong last time, should I be looking at scrapping off the several hundred pounds worth of Rapid Paint we still have, and buying something that goes on a bit easier in conditions that are never going to be controlled. (We have access to a poly-tunnel next time, over a wet dock).

 

I can't afford a professional repaint, so that's not an option, unfortunately.

[Chertsey]

Frankly, as a rank amateur, despite all the hype about the "extra solids" etc in paints like this, and Craftmaster, I actually find it a great deal easier to work with International, or even a non boat specific paint.

I have no experience of any of the other brands mentioned, but we certainly found Craftmaster to be very easy to work with.

[alan_fincher]

I have no experience of any of the other brands mentioned, but we certainly found Craftmaster to be very easy to work with.

Unfortunately that rather seems to prove we are part of the problem then, as some of the paint we had was Craftmaster and as amateurs we didn't find it easier to use than the Rapid Paint / Narrow Boat Paint stuff.

 

Ho hum - I wish I could afford the professionals, (although I have seen a few less than successful professional repaints lately too.......)

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

Unfortunately that rather seems to prove we are part of the problem then, as some of the paint we had was Craftmaster and as amateurs we didn't find it easier to use than the Rapid Paint / Narrow Boat Paint stuff.

 

Ho hum - I wish I could afford the professionals, (although I have seen a few less than successful professional repaints lately too.......)

 

probably a good plan to get hold of a small quantity first and try it on something other than the boat, I seem to think you're based not far from kidderminster? I'm near wolverley, and will be here 'till saturday. I have about 3 litres of bottle green coach paint, even if you don't like the colour you would be welcome to it to play with.

[alan_fincher]

probably a good plan to get hold of a small quantity first and try it on something other than the boat, I seem to think you're based not far from kidderminster? I'm near wolverley, and will be here 'till saturday. I have about 3 litres of bottle green coach paint, even if you don't like the colour you would be welcome to it to play with.

Thanks for the kind offer. Unfortunately I'm nowhere near "Kidders", being Hertfordshire based.

[Adam Brown]

Alan

 

If it interests you please give me a ring at Craftmaster and I'll see if I can help you at all. Or if not I can put you onto Phil (who i think is in the depths of internetless Scotland at present)

Edited July 19, 2010 by Adam Brown

[gary4lw]

Just painted my boat using Teamac paint and everyone on our marina says it looks brilliant and I have to agree with them !!!!

[PhilR]

I am currently using some yacht enamel from cans that were last opened 9 years ago. I was fully expecting it to be skinned over and useless, but it looked perfect when I opened the cans and it has gone on a treat (with 5% - 10% Owatrol oil) - a real pleasure to use.

 

One of the colours has been discontinued, but I managed to find a supply locally. When the job is finished (if and when it stops raining) I should have enough paint left for touching up for many years to come.

 

For amateur boat painters like me I can recommend Blake's Yacht Enamel.

 

Amazingly, the cream covered areas of dark green and red in one coat.

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

Thanks for the kind offer. Unfortunately I'm nowhere near "Kidders", being Hertfordshire based.

 

Ah, I was recalling you mentioning limekiln Stourport, so thought you might be local to them, not to worry.

[alan_fincher]

Alan

 

If it interests you please give me a ring at Craftmaster and I'll see if I can help you at all. Or if not I can put you onto Phil (who i think is in the depths of internetless Scotland at present)

I'd like to thank Adam for taking the time to contact me about this, and let me phone up and pick his brains.

 

I've also had a useful conversation with the supplier of the paint we still have.

 

I still don't know which way to jump on this.

 

I suspect we may revert to the International route, as we personally do not seem to be very good with these "more professional" coach paints.

[Lady Muck]

I am currently using some yacht enamel from cans that were last opened 9 years ago. I was fully expecting it to be skinned over and useless, but it looked perfect when I opened the cans and it has gone on a treat (with 5% - 10% Owatrol oil) - a real pleasure to use.

 

One of the colours has been discontinued, but I managed to find a supply locally. When the job is finished (if and when it stops raining) I should have enough paint left for touching up for many years to come.

 

For amateur boat painters like me I can recommend Blake's Yacht Enamel.

 

Amazingly, the cream covered areas of dark green and red in one coat.

 

Our boat: photo taken about ten minutes ago! Basecoat was Craftmaster, green is Masons (wot we bought a year or two ago), red panels and the cream are Blakes. No idea how it will look in a years time, but we used Owatrol like you did and rollers with only the final coat brushed. We still have a way to go as the roof and decks have no topcoat or aggregrate on yet - had to get onto the signwriting and coachlines because he was waiting to do it. It has taken forever!

 

 

[PhilR]

Our boat: photo taken about ten minutes ago! Basecoat was Craftmaster, green is Masons (wot we bought a year or two ago), red panels and the cream are Blakes. No idea how it will look in a years time, but we used Owatrol like you did and rollers with only the final coat brushed. We still have a way to go as the roof and decks have no topcoat or aggregrate on yet - had to get onto the signwriting and coachlines because he was waiting to do it. It has taken forever!

 

It is looking excellent - well done! The cream you have used is in the new Blake's range? I would have used it myself but I still have 2 litres of the old *warm cream* left after applying 2 top coats to both cabin sides and front and rear bulkheads.

 

I hope the masking tape came off cleanly!!

 

Phil

[Lady Muck]

It is looking excellent - well done! The cream you have used is in the new Blake's range? I would have used it myself but I still have 2 litres of the old *warm cream* left after applying 2 top coats to both cabin sides and front and rear bulkheads.

 

I hope the masking tape came off cleanly!!

 

Phil

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that the cream paint is the discontinued colour, but we do have a full tin. Masking tape came off ok - the signwriter gets low tack masking tape from this place http://www.handover.co.uk/ along with his brushes etc, seems to do the job.

[andywatson]

Just painted my boat using Teamac paint and everyone on our marina says it looks brilliant and I have to agree with them !!!!

 

 

For those who haven't seen Garry's wonderfull jade blue pannels and counter on the otherwise red oxide boat you should set aside a day to come to Shardlow and admire the artistry and craftsmanship.

[WotEver]

Frankly, as a rank amateur, despite all the hype about the "extra solids" etc in paints like this, and Craftmaster, I actually find it a great deal easier to work with International, or even a non boat specific paint.

Alan, have a look at this Ebay ad from another thread: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PURDY-BRUSH-SET-3-MO...=item19bdb3c412

 

I note that the seller comments (in part) that the Pro-Extra Monarch Purdy brushes are a:

... brush with extra stiff filaments for use with thick paints

I wonder if your lack of success with high-solids paints was due to using an inferior brush?

 

Tony

[Phil Speight]

Never used it but I seem to recall this paint being introduced as a budget boat paint only available by mail order, and over the years taken on by some chandlers with a huge hike in price.

 

No expert on synthetic paint but there are 3 ways I know of to kill the finish, too much thinner, direct sunlight before its dry, and T-cutting when new. If you didnt do any of these I'd suspect the paint itself.

 

Never used specific boat paint because its so overpriced, I've always used good quality coach paint (PPG or HMG) Dark colours in PPG coach paint will go flat if not cared for, leaving HMG coach paint as the best IMO.

 

Edited to clarify, by direct sunlight I mean the high metal temp produced by it rather than sunllight itself

Interestingly enough Narrowboat Paint is in fact HMG Coach Enamel( and before anyone says it Craftmaster emphatically isn`t ). It is mixed by an HMG distributor - unless there has been dramatic change recently and , before I get into trouble , there is nothing wrong with that !

Chalking will affect all synthetic enamels eventually. it is caused by the breakdown of the ultra-violet screen in the paint exposing pigment to the elements. How soon it manifests itself depends on paint quality ( which shouldn`t be an issue with ANY of the well known and more expensive brands widely sold on the canals ), and how much the paint has been eased with brushing additive or ( heaven forbid ) white spirit. Washing the boat with Fairy Liquid and the like , as well as atmosheric conditions , can also have a bad effect.

I`m glad Adam is getting involved here. Be nice to him ! He`s a good lad who is working very hard and very well on a steep learning curve - I`m still available in the background for help and advice - but Adam is the front man for Craftmaster now ( he`s probably my boss but don`t tell him for God`s sake ) and the business is in good hands.

I am writing this in the "Tyndrum Internet Cafe". It`s open for four hours a couple of days a week and looks remarkably like the Village Hall with the addition of a tea urn and three laptops !

[RLWP]

<snip>

I am writing this in the "Tyndrum Internet Cafe". It`s open for four hours a couple of days a week and looks remarkably like the Village Hall with the addition of a tea urn and three laptops !

 

The Tyndrum Internet cafe, a hotel and two railway stations is the whole of Tyndrum, isn't it?

 

Richard