Rapid Paint - Narrowboat Paint

[Phil Speight]

There is no hype about high solids . How many people, I wonder, know what the expression actually means. It`s nothing to do with how thick, heavy, loaded with pigment or anything the paint may be. It is the amount of the material you apply that remains once the solvents etc have evaporated out in the drying process. Use one paint , probably one of the more pricey ones ( "overpriced" did somebody say? Depends on how well you are able to use it . It`a down to the painter , not the paint), and you may finish up with 60 to 65% remaining to protect your steelwork once it`s dry. Use a lesser enamel and you`ll be lucky to get 50%.

I`ve tried very hard over the years here to make people understand - whether you use Craftmaster, Narrowboat Paint, Blakes, International, Epiphanes, HMG, any of the quality brands in fact - if it doesn`t go right IT ISN`T THE PAINT`S FAULT. Via Craftmaster I have always been available to give what help and guidance I could - I still am. So, if you are struggling to achieve the results you think a paint should give you , don`t blame the paint. Contact me here, in a PM, through Craftmaster or on 01838 400269. I couldn`t do your job - so why struggle to admit that you can`t do mine !

[madcat]

Do Craftmaster sell chemical suits for big northwiches, sorry cancel that request we moved from Oldbury.Atmospheric conditions you could cut with a knife ! All same E Port Runcorn and Widnes.Have fun in the fresh air of Bonnie Scotland Phil n Zita.

[gary4lw]

For those who haven't seen Garry's wonderfull jade blue pannels and counter on the otherwise red oxide boat you should set aside a day to come to Shardlow and admire the artistry and craftsmanship.

And whilst you're there you can have a look at Andy Watson's excellent scrumping.!!!!!!!!!!

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

Interestingly enough Narrowboat Paint is in fact HMG Coach Enamel( and before anyone says it Craftmaster emphatically isn`t ). It is mixed by an HMG distributor

 

A quick google found Narrowboat paint is indeed made by HMG who seem to think they are also a little involved with craftmaster.

Phil first encountered HMG when he became dissatisfied with the quality of paint used previously and looked around for an alternative supplier. He found that HMG Paints alone offered the standard of product, flexibility of supply and willingness to collaborate that he needed and the working relationship has flourished over the past six years, with HMG now producing thousands of litres of Craftmaster paint annually.

 

"It was the biggest imaginable stroke of luck when we got in touch with them," says Phil. "We're extremely happy working with them, they're easy to talk to and, when I'm looking for a new specialist product to add to the range, I just explain to their technical people what properties we want and they develop it."

[Adam Brown]

Yes HMG are our main supplier of all paint products.

 

Coach Enamel is made of Resin and Tint (Colour). HMG Coach Enamel has one resin - this is the one beleived to be used by Rapid. Craftmaster has a completely different resin that was developed for us. There is a letter to that effect hanging in my office stating that the Craftmaster Coach Enamel is only sold to Craftmaster and is not used in other HMG products. It sold exclusively to us.

 

Apart from the resin you can also alter the ratio of resin to tint in the paint. Ours has 10% more (at least) than the vast majority of coach enamels on the market.

 

Now we have no problem with HMG Coach Enamel but it IS totally and utterly different from Craftmaster Coach Enamel and does not have the unique qualities of Craftmaster Coach Enamel.

 

We have never hidden the fact that HMG have developed and supply the majority of our product range - its right up the top on the front page of our site.

 

We are very proud to work with HMG and indeed are very lucky to have such excellent support from the

 

 

Also Phil and I only got involved in this thread to offer assistance to Alan. It was not to benefit Craftmaster or to advertise or to generate sales it was purely a goodwill gesture. We like to help. Phil merely mentioned that HMG Coach Enamel and Narrowboat Paint are one because someone had earlier stated one was better than the other.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Adam Brown

[PhilR]

Also Phil and I only got involved in this thread to offer assistance to Alan. It was not to benefit Craftmaster or to advertise or to generate sales it was purely a goodwill gesture. We like to help. Phil merely mentioned that HMG Coach Enamel and Narrowboat Paint are one because someone had earlier stated one was better than the other.

 

The paint manufacturers/distributrs/retailers don't exactly make it easy for us Joe Punters to decide? although I appreciate the input from the trade ..............

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

Yes HMG are our main supplier of all paint products.

 

Coach Enamel is made of Resin and Tint (Colour). HMG Coach Enamel has one resin - this is the one used by Rapid. Craftmaster has a completely different resin that was developed for us. There is a letter to that effect hanging in my office stating that the Craftmaster Coach Enamel is only sold to Craftmaster and is not used in other HMG products. It sold exclusively to us.

 

Apart from the resin you can also alter the ratio of resin to tint in the paint. Ours has 10% more (at least) than the vast majority of coach enamels on the market.

 

Now we have no problem with HMG Coach Enamel but it IS totally and utterly different from Craftmaster Coach Enamel and does not have the unique qualities of Craftmaster Coach Enamel.

 

We have never hidden the fact that HMG have developed and supply the majority of our product range - its right up the top on the front page of our site.

 

We are very proud to work with HMG and indeed are very lucky to have such excellent support from the

 

 

Also Phil and I only got involved in this thread to offer assistance to Alan. It was not to benefit Craftmaster or to advertise or to generate sales it was purely a goodwill gesture. We like to help. Phil merely mentioned that HMG Coach Enamel and Narrowboat Paint are one because someone had earlier stated one was better than the other.

 

All contributions on this forum are given with good will, and it's very good of you and Phil to offer support and advice, but nobody stated HMG was better than narrowboat paint, I seem to recall they stated they had never used Narrowboat paint, or any other specific boat paint because it was in their opinion overpriced, and went on to compare two coach enamels they had experience of.

 

Phil played down HMG's role by stating HMG only mixed Craftmaster paint before anybody suggested otherwise, HMG,s press release states a far bigger involvement including developing and manufacturing it.

 

Craftmaster paints could well have properties that your customers like and will continue to buy it. having never used it I have no idea, and while there is an alternative that gives the result I want for something less than half the price I doubt I will be comparing it in a hurry.

 

Being new to this forum, you have yet to find out you can't say white is white without somebody pointing out that in reality it's actualy black, so it's a good place to have a little dig and laugh off the result, so don't let anything said upset you, and a belated welcome.

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

No, none of those, really. A small amount of the "slowing down" additive was generally used, but no thinners, and most of the painting was done under cover. No T-cut or polish since.

 

Quite funny that the paint you didn't get on with, turns out likely the same as the one I suggested because I get good results from it. What the hell did you do to it

 

Seriously though, a known difference is you used an additive and I use about 10% HMG thinner, Its not the same as white spirit, their spraying thinner is called 2611 and brushing thinner 2612, purely by coincidence and no suggestion otherwise, craftmasters spraying thinner "especialy formulated for spraying craftmaster paint" is called 2612, just a thought but if your local stockist keeps it, you might think it was worth a punt with the paint you have, HMG's is about 15 quid for 5l and craftmasters about £6 for 1l

[Adam Brown]

All contributions on this forum are given with good will, and it's very good of you and Phil to offer support and advice, but nobody stated HMG was better than narrowboat paint, I seem to recall they stated they had never used Narrowboat paint, or any other specific boat paint because it was in their opinion overpriced, and went on to compare two coach enamels they had experience of.

 

Being new to this forum, you have yet to find out you can't say white is white without somebody pointing out that in reality it's actualy black, so it's a good place to have a little dig and laugh off the result, so don't let anything said upset you, and a belated welcome.

 

Dont worry I wasn't getting upset I just didnt want this to turn into a Rapid vs HMG vs Craftmaster thread cos thats not what is started out as. As I beleive Phil has said many times no-one makes a bad paint - if you can get good results with a different paint I won't try to convert you!

[Mikeonb4c]

Dont worry I wasn't getting upset I just didnt want this to turn into a Rapid vs HMG vs Craftmaster thread cos thats not what is started out as. As I beleive Phil has said many times no-one makes a bad paint - if you can get good results with a different paint I won't try to convert you!

 

Please excuse some questions from a complete newbie on here, who knows nothing about narrowboats but is keen to learn. Could I ask:

 

• I imagine that regardless what paint is used, how well you prepare the surface (sand, etch etc.) and whatever primer/undercoat you use in order to obten a good 'key' and inhibit any corrosions, will make a big difference?
  
• Using some kind of temporary cover / plastic tarp to provide protection (from rain, direct u/v etc.) to the area being painted, will make the job much more likely to turn out well?
  
• Is there anything you can apply to finished paint at intervals to help it last (rather like waxing the car with a suitable clear sealing polish)?
  

 

I'm also curious about best / quickest techniques (is rollering paint on quicker, better for example), what you do to prepare surfaces for painting, why it is so bad to thin with white spirit, what kind of undercoat/primer you use etc.

 

Thanks in hope

 

Mike (enthusiastic but undecided about NBs)

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

As I beleive Phil has said many times no-one makes a bad paint

Phil's just too nice, and a very generous thing to say, but I bet he never painted a boat with Homebase own brand?

Damn bet somebody's going to say it's great!

Edited July 24, 2010 by Radio-Ga-Ga

[Chertsey]

Phil's just too nice, and a very generous thing to say, but I bet he never painted a boat with Homebase own brand?

Damn bet somebody's going to say it's great!

Ditto Dulux cream gloss. The dark green was great, but the cream was vile. And don't get me started on Dulux white undercoat.

[Mikeonb4c]

Please excuse some questions from a complete newbie on here, who knows nothing about narrowboats but is keen to learn. Could I ask:

 

• I imagine that regardless what paint is used, how well you prepare the surface (sand, etch etc.) and whatever primer/undercoat you use in order to obten a good 'key' and inhibit any corrosions, will make a big difference?
  
• Using some kind of temporary cover / plastic tarp to provide protection (from rain, direct u/v etc.) to the area being painted, will make the job much more likely to turn out well?
  
• Is there anything you can apply to finished paint at intervals to help it last (rather like waxing the car with a suitable clear sealing polish)?
  

 

I'm also curious about best / quickest techniques (is rollering paint on quicker, better for example), what you do to prepare surfaces for painting, why it is so bad to thin with white spirit, what kind of undercoat/primer you use etc.

 

Thanks in hope

 

Mike (enthusiastic but undecided about NBs)

 

bump

[Adam Brown]

bump

 

Hi Mike

 

Yes good preperation and priming/undercoating makes for a much better finish.

 

I'll have to leave the second point about covered workspace for Phil or someone else. Ideally your in an environmentally controlled building but I realise that isn't very realistic

 

For prolonging the paint life you can either varish every few years or wash & polish reguarly. Looking after the paintwork will help it last. Again others will know more than me on this

[Mikeonb4c]

Hi Mike

 

Yes good preperation and priming/undercoating makes for a much better finish.

 

I'll have to leave the second point about covered workspace for Phil or someone else. Ideally your in an environmentally controlled building but I realise that isn't very realistic

 

For prolonging the paint life you can either varish every few years or wash & polish reguarly. Looking after the paintwork will help it last. Again others will know more than me on this

 

 

Thanks Adam - very useful (and for others to remember) and I'll log that for if/when I find myself involved with a narrowboat.

[Phil Speight]

All contributions on this forum are given with good will, and it's very good of you and Phil to offer support and advice, but nobody stated HMG was better than narrowboat paint, I seem to recall they stated they had never used Narrowboat paint, or any other specific boat paint because it was in their opinion overpriced, and went on to compare two coach enamels they had experience of.

 

Phil played down HMG's role by stating HMG only mixed Craftmaster paint before anybody suggested otherwise, HMG,s press release states a far bigger involvement including developing and manufacturing it.

 

Craftmaster paints could well have properties that your customers like and will continue to buy it. having never used it I have no idea, and while there is an alternative that gives the result I want for something less than half the price I doubt I will be comparing it in a hurry.

 

Being new to this forum, you have yet to find out you can't say white is white without somebody pointing out that in reality it's actualy black, so it's a good place to have a little dig and laugh off the result, so don't let anything said upset you, and a belated welcome.

Not entirely true. In previous posts I have made it very clear that Craftmaster Coach Enamel was developed jointly by Craftmaster ( at the time that effectively means me ! ) in Wordsley and the paint chemists at HMG in Manchester. It is also clearly stated on the website and in all Craftmaster literature generated when I was MD.

The idea behind the unique binder we developed was in fact ENTIRELY mine - it needed the lab in Manchester to ensure that what I had in mind was viable and to tweak the formula to ensure good through drying. All other newly generated products were the work of the guys in Manchester. I just said what I needed and did the trials.

In some fairly contentious discussions here some time ago I also made it very clear that Craftmaster is manufactured , not simply mixed , by HMG. I also made it clear that early in the company`s history the paint was MIXED by a third party using ingredients supplied by HMG. Perhaps that is causing some confusion now .

[alan_fincher]

To complete this thread, (maybe!...)

 

Although we had scored well less than total success with it previously, we decided to press ahead and still use RapidPaint Narrowboat paint for most of our repaint.

 

This was largely because we had so many unopened tins left over from mis-estimating our requirements last time. We did in fact supplement with a few newly bought tins, but largely used old stock.

 

The results this time, initially at least, seem very much more satisfactory than our last attempt. We had few of the problems we had with application last time, and mostly it has gone on well. It's hard to say exactly why it went so much better, but I suspect much cooler conditions, on average, had more to do with this than anything else.

 

Not totally completed, (further coats still required on coach lines, and further non-slip surfaces to do), but so far it's looking good.

 

Only time will tell if it dulls prematurely, but at the moment it is so shiny that most photos from a recent trip are not up to much, as there are too many reflections showing in the paint-work.

 

Anyway, an excuse to post yet another gratuitous picture of our efforts.....

 

[kitman]

Nice job Alan

[Phil Speight]

I`m sure Kitman would be happy to join me in this ,and Radio Ga-Ga as well perhaps. If you are going to paint your own boat by all means put a post up asking the appropriate questions. But, if you think a conversation with a professional would help then I, for one , would be happy to talk to you. My number is somewhere in this thread already - but it is 01838 400269. I won`t try to sell you Craftmaster because you all know that I developed it and use it myself - so it`s only natural I should favour it - and since it is so well known I will find no need to mention it on the phone. Neither will you hear me slag off anyone else`s products . I never have and never will.Ask me what paint I would use myself and I`ll say Craftmaster - ask me how to go about the job itself, choice of paint aside, and that`s what we`ll talk about , because it seems to me that many of the problems that crop up here are , with the best will in the world, down to operator error.

I`ll be marauding around boatyards in England for the next couple of weeks signwriting ( Zita`s horses are arriving in the highlands soon and I feel the urgent need to earn some money )so I`ll only be available on my mobile - and I don`t know the number ! You could get it from Adam at Craftmaster if you have an immediate problem.

Edited September 10, 2010 by Phil Speight