LMSR

[NB Alnwick]

But did it show a profit...

 

Yes, the company enjoyed a modest profit before it was necessarily taken over (and run into the ground) by the state during the Second World War. The profits were not great and some may argue that the service that they provided was rather more important than just running a business to meet the demands of financial greed.

 

Canals don't make a profit but I wouldn't like to manage without them . . .

Edited May 19, 2010 by NB Alnwick

[hughc]

Long stretches of the Trent and Mersey from Burton upwards have heavy gauge offside piling. This finishes at water level with no metal or concrete capping. I have always believed that this was installed whilst the canal was railway owned just before the second world war and that the work was interrupted by the war. If this is so it represents a major investment in maintenance with, I would have thought, the prospect of increased traffic. Can any one confirm or deny this belief? It certainly is not BW work since they pile only the towpath unless absolutely forced and then take a line two or three feet towards the centre of the cut so that the piles avoid the fallen coping stones. Regards, HughC.

[RLWP]

Was that the experiment on the Trent & Mersey? I have a similar photograph and I think it shows F. W. Webb the LNWR's famous engineer - wasn't he born near the canal at Tixall?

 

Dickie pulling boats:

 

 

Billy, a similar engine to Dickie:

 

 

Both the above from An illustrated history of 18 inch gauge steam railways;Smithers MK, OPC, Yeovil, 1993 - page 22

 

Richard

 

Oh yes, that's probably Francis William Webb on the left of the picture, born 21st May 1836 in Tixall Rectory

Edited May 19, 2010 by RLWP

[NB Alnwick]

>snip<

 

Oh yes, that's probably Francis William Webb on the left of the picture, born 21st May 1836 in Tixall Rectory

 

Wearing the stove-pipe hat! That will be the photograph that I remember - I just got the location a bit mixed up!

 

And boats travelling at seven mph without a breaking wash! It, sort of, proves that haulage from the towing path was a good idea . . .

[Québec]

There's a website somewhere with this stuff on it

 

Is this it?

 

Clicky

[The Anonymous Bard]

Well that was by far more information than I could possibly have hoped for... thanks everyone and very much appreciated, I will be re-reading it all a few times before finally getting a better understanding.

 

In addition to answering my questions it has given me more things to go at in the meantime which I never even knew existed and also gives me a good indication as to how the "Lake" livery came to be on some of the narrowboats that I keep coming across today in contrast to how they would have been painted up during their service period.

 

Andy... we come across Dove often at Fradley and see him tinkering around on Achilles, I will say hello when he's back and see if there is a connection to the original LMS boats, I think I have some pictures of her somewhere along with some steam engines which have the maroon LMS livery if not the LMS signwriting but another connection perhaps?

 

Link to steam engine: http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8543/steamk.jpg

 

Thanks again, very much obliged!

 

Edit: And link to "Lake" livery as seen on a few narrowboats: http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/7271/52742335.jpg

Edited May 20, 2010 by The Anonymous Bard

[Derek R.]

Mention has been made of 'Colours of the Cut' by Edward Paget-Tomlinson and edited by A. J . Lewery, this is available through Amazon, and from past pages of Waterways World magazine I have these clips:

 

 

 

Derek

[Athy]

I note that the water containers shown are stone jars rather than the more familiar (and nowadays seen as traditional) Buckby cans. Was this a regional thing, or just the artist's whim?

[Derek R.]

Really could not say for certain, but given E P-T was pretty accurate with his detail, chances are they may be correct. Station boats I would imagine were hardly the domain of long distance crews being on short runs, so the chance that a container as cheap as chips seems a logical choice. Most folk had stone hot water bottles at some time, so there would almost certainly be a lot of other items carried in stoneware - like Beer.

 

I notice in that B&W photo of boats in the basin that the motorised HORACE seems to have an extended tiller shaped, and reaching over the engine casing. If this is the case, this must have been done to save an unfortunate accident with the steerer getting his garments caught in the rotating prop shaft. Wouldn't get much of an angle on the rudder from that distance!

 

Derek

[Natalie Graham]

Is this it?

 

Clicky

 

Interesting from that page that Rupert is shown as an LNWR boat. It was gauged in Nov. 1922 between the time the SU fleet was taken into the LNWR and the grouping of the LNWR into the LMS. I wonder if Rupert was a new boat at that time and if so what livery if originally carried.

[RLWP]

Interesting from that page that Rupert is shown as an LNWR boat. It was gauged in Nov. 1922 between the time the SU fleet was taken into the LNWR and the grouping of the LNWR into the LMS. I wonder if Rupert was a new boat at that time and if so what livery if originally carried.

 

Do you know how much I'd like to know the answer to that question?

 

Richard

[NB Alnwick]

>snip<

 

Link to steam engine: http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8543/steamk.jpg

 

Thanks again, very much obliged!

 

Edit: And link to "Lake" livery as seen on a few narrowboats: http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/7271/52742335.jpg

 

I am familiar with that Foden steam waggon/tractor - it visited the GCR several times when I was involved in the initial push to preserve the section between Nottingham and Leicester back in the early 1970s. We benefited from some excellent publicity when it was photographed - for example standing outside Loughborough Central Station and at an exhibition in Leicester.

 

The narrow boats painted in LMS 'Lake' with full 'express passenger' lining do not (in my opinion) portray a livery ever carried by any LMS boat or ship during that company's existance between 1923 and 1947 inclusive. Also the use of the full title except for the abreviation of the word 'Company' was, as far as I know, only ever used on early notice or advertising boards and a few road vehicles. It would not have been used on boats. I know that we all have a right to paint our boats however we want but I really wish that people would be more carefull if they want to recreate something that purports to be an historical livery.

[Laurence Hogg]

Interesting from that page that Rupert is shown as an LNWR boat. It was gauged in Nov. 1922 between the time the SU fleet was taken into the LNWR and the grouping of the LNWR into the LMS. I wonder if Rupert was a new boat at that time and if so what livery if originally carried.

 

The regauging of Rupert in 1922 was to a "J & N Masu" of Brierley Hill, it still retained a number 451, very high for a small carrier! Almost certainly an ex SUR&CCO boat, ie Shroppy flyboat. The gauging is for a "CAbin Wood" boat and shows no signs of long distance equipment being on board. Unlikely to be a new boat, listed as cut up with no changes to owners.

[pete harrison]

The regauging of Rupert in 1922 was to a "J & N Masu" of Brierley Hill, it still retained a number 451, very high for a small carrier! Almost certainly an ex SUR&CCO boat, ie Shroppy flyboat. The gauging is for a "CAbin Wood" boat and shows no signs of long distance equipment being on board. Unlikely to be a new boat, listed as cut up with no changes to owners.

 

I have B.C.N. 497 as RUPERT 451 for L. & N.W.R. Co., Brierley Hill. Although no former B.C.N. gauge number is listed on this table RUPERT 451 was previously gauged as B.C.N. 19630 on 08 February 1905 for its owners S.U.R.C.Co., Wolverhampton - and prior to that as B.C.N. 13787 in early May 1894 (table missing so specific details unknown to me but 1894 ties in with the health registration Chester 463 24 April 1894 as RUPERT owned by S.U.R.C.Co., Chester).

 

Clearly this shows that RUPERT was not a new boat in 1922.

[The Anonymous Bard]

Is this it?

 

Clicky

 

Thanks Quebec.

 

I've just had a chance to read through that link and managed to tie the information up on there with an image I've had on my desktop for some time now, not original LMS colours but, as the saying goes...

 

"She has beautiful lines!"

 

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4397/ajaxb.jpg

 

Does anyone have any more images of her?

[Derek R.]

Not an authentic paint job for a Station boat though nice colours nonetheless - but for heavens sake - sort those fenders out that's a disgrace! Shame on that man!!

 

Derek

[Graham_Robinson]

The regauging of Rupert in 1922 was to a "J & N Masu" of Brierley Hill, it still retained a number 451, very high for a small carrier! Almost certainly an ex SUR&CCO boat, ie Shroppy flyboat. The gauging is for a "CAbin Wood" boat and shows no signs of long distance equipment being on board. Unlikely to be a new boat, listed as cut up with no changes to owners.

 

clearly off topic Laurence but wth. Remember my enquiries re. British Pathe stills?

They're sellin 'em @ £ 20 a shot or £ 30 for the video. Now if I knew someone who could get stills from video footage??????

Edited May 24, 2010 by Graham_Robinson

[Laurence Hogg]

clearly off topic Laurence but wth. Remember my enquiries re. British Pathe stills?

They're sellin 'em @ £ 20 a shot or £ 30 for the video. Now if I knew someone who could get stills from video footage??????

Graham,

Yes I can take stills from video, DVD or any media. I wouldnt charge £20 either, how ever theres a thing called copyright infringement...... Sorry cannot do it.

By the way a little bird told me today that the latest editions of Power DVD have a little button added, not sure what its for they keep messing about with these things, god thayl be stirring up the mud and knocking down the banks next .....

Edited May 24, 2010 by Laurence Hogg

[Liam]

Another LMS boat...

 

[RLWP]

An LMS boat, or just a boat wearing LMS passenger locomotive livery?

 

Richard

[Liam]

Fore end, to me anyway, looks like an LMS station boat but I could be wrong?!

 

I went past the boat owner last year who shouted to me "I nearly bought that!" meaning Ariel... I stopped for a chat and asked about his boat, which he said was original.

[Speedwheel]

Looks like the Delhi. Yes the front end is original LMS.

[JohnO]

Fore end, to me anyway, looks like an LMS station boat but I could be wrong?!

 

 

They are recognised by the unique fore-deck, which has a typical Yarwoods stem bar; the deck having little rise, and being longer than Joshers and GUCC boats

 

L.M.S

[Liam]

Looks like the Delhi. Yes the front end is original LMS.

 

Yep thats the one

[The Anonymous Bard]

Another LMS boat...

 

 

Liam... we have just been hankering at that boat as it's on Apollo Duck at the minute, a Steve Priest/Simon Wain boat.

 

Very nice looking boat with a good write up: http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=143845

 

EDIT: On second thoughts scrap that as it's not the same boat... an uncanny resemblance though!

Edited May 25, 2010 by The Anonymous Bard