SM Hudson...

[charles123]

Enjoyed looking at the pictures on flicker Steve, well done. Hudson is to my taste and in a way I see why he wants to protect the shape and detailing as its his trade mark, so he wont do many changes to the look for a customer. And £120k appears a fair price for a boat of that standard. However I have noticed that when you get to this level of spend you don't see many used boats holding up over £100k so my guess is there is fairly steep depreciation for a over a £100k purchase price boat, but thats not important when buying one to keep

 

Charles

[The Anonymous Bard]

Enjoyed looking at the pictures on flicker Steve, well done. Hudson is to my taste and in a way I see why he wants to protect the shape and detailing as its his trade mark, so he wont do many changes to the look for a customer. And £120k appears a fair price for a boat of that standard. However I have noticed that when you get to this level of spend you don't see many used boats holding up over £100k so my guess is there is fairly steep depreciation for a over a £100k purchase price boat, but thats not important when buying one to keep

 

Charles

 

Thanks Charles... good to hear from you again, hope the plans are coming along nicely.

 

There's still much more to post from open days and interiors but I will have to wait thirty days now until my upload limit begins again as I used it all up posting the sets that are already there. I will try to get a video up (I think i'm allowed to post two in addition to the 100mb image limit) of the inside of Silas which we took after the show had been closed at Crick 2008 due to the winds... some nice footage of the boatmans cabin & engine room, will keep you posted.

[GUMPY]

Well... at £130k a chuck for a 70' C class boat I wouldn't exactly put them at Ford Mondeo level, boat equivalent or not.

 

The guy clearly has a market that he has built up from reputation, no one is forcing anyone to buy his boats and from what I understand he's knocking out somewhere between 12-16 boats a year which I would call a measure of his success and the desirability of his boats.

 

I know from my own conversations with Steve Hudson that he can be reluctant to alter the shell but then he does retain the right to protect his own integrity and what clearly works for him if he feels something is not right and there are many other builders out there as an alternative, after all why choose him as a builder and then try twisting the guys arm to change things instead of just sourcing something that is closer to your requirement in the first place?

 

OK C class Mercedes then, still all the same.

Oh and I wasn't talking about the shell I was talking of the interior.

Get rid of all the washers and its not a bad hull shape but still mass market.

Now if we are talking decent hulls then there is only one choice and there were only ever eight made and they were for Cowburn and Cowper

[The Anonymous Bard]

OK C class Mercedes then, still all the same.

Oh and I wasn't talking about the shell I was talking of the interior.

Get rid of all the washers and its not a bad hull shape but still mass market.

Now if we are talking decent hulls then there is only one choice and there were only ever eight made and they were for Cowburn and Cowper

 

Still can't see it but each to their own... there are many without the "washers" but the thing with the replica rivets is ultimately down to the customer requesting them and not insisted upon by the builder, as is the case with say a Steve Priest boat, Stoke boat and many other highly respected boat builders.

 

In practical terms of availability and bang for the buck I still reckon they represent decent value for money compared with the alternatives whether or not some see them as mass market.

 

What was the point you were making about the Hudson interior?

[Guest]

Not withstanding of course you might really like a used boat but one that happens to have fake rivets (washers) welded to it's side.

 

I can't say I would reject a used boat just on account of it having a few washers welded to it's shell....

Edited May 9, 2010 by MJG

[The Anonymous Bard]

I still don't understand what point Julian was making regarding the interiors?

[Dominic M]

OK C class Mercedes then, still all the same.

Oh and I wasn't talking about the shell I was talking of the interior.

Get rid of all the washers and its not a bad hull shape but still mass market.

Now if we are talking decent hulls then there is only one choice and there were only ever eight made and they were for Cowburn and Cowper

I think that to say there is only one choice is to be a trifle uninformed. Go and see how Graham Edgson at Norton Canes builds his shells for example. Or Phill Trotter at R W Davis. And talk to them. And the idea that all replica rivets are all stick on washers is nonsense. The Stoke ones are solid weld for example. Are they necessary? No. How much of your clothing has unnecessary bits on it? Is a tie necessary? Are cuff buttons on a smart jacket necessary? Are shoes on your feet necessary? No. Humans love adornment. Why not?

[mrsmelly]

Now this could cause a fuss!

 

Maybe not one for the purists but we have aways admired the SM Hudson boats and whilst we appreciate that there are those that don't like the bow we also appreciate that there are those present that are fortunate to own one.

 

The following is a (fun!) link to a few of the SM Hudson boats that we have been fortunate to come across to date... a long way to go yet but I have almost used my monthly upload limit so more to come in around thirty days but there are 21 named boats to go at in the meantime.

 

The link posted should take you to the opening page which I have done in order that the description of the group is read... from there simply click on the "photostream" on the toolbar below the name to browse a continual stream of images or then go further and click on "sets" once this page has loaded to view sets by the name of the boat...

 

Have fun...

 

http://www.flickr.com/people/50005139@N08/

 

C hrist u mean rhere are other boat builders out there ? surely not. You will tell me next that boats can be bought made of tin foil with say only ten mil bottoms, naaaaah just ca nt beleive it...........

 

Enjoyed looking at the pictures on flicker Steve, well done. Hudson is to my taste and in a way I see why he wants to protect the shape and detailing as its his trade mark, so he wont do many changes to the look for a customer. And £120k appears a fair price for a boat of that standard. However I have noticed that when you get to this level of spend you don't see many used boats holding up over £100k so my guess is there is fairly steep depreciation for a over a £100k purchase price boat, but thats not important when buying one to keep

 

Charles

 

Wise words

[journeyperson]

And the idea that all replica rivets are all stick on washers is nonsense. The Stoke ones are solid weld for example. Are they necessary? No. How much of your clothing has unnecessary bits on it? Is a tie necessary? Are cuff buttons on a smart jacket necessary? Are shoes on your feet necessary? No. Humans love adornment. Why not?

 

 

I suppose it's a question of good taste.

[GUMPY]

I think that to say there is only one choice is to be a trifle uninformed. Go and see how Graham Edgson at Norton Canes builds his shells for example. Or Phill Trotter at R W Davis. And talk to them. And the idea that all replica rivets are all stick on washers is nonsense. The Stoke ones are solid weld for example. Are they necessary? No. How much of your clothing has unnecessary bits on it? Is a tie necessary? Are cuff buttons on a smart jacket necessary? Are shoes on your feet necessary? No. Humans love adornment. Why not?

You miss the point

The C&C boats took the best parts of the current working boats when they were built and had boats built for their own use

Non of the builders you mention use rounded chines or double curved swims............

I have looked at and driven a lot of hulls over the years and NO modern hull can compete with a decent working boat for speed or grace through the water.

The main reason is that to build a hull as good as an old working boat the cost would be prohibitive now.

IMO the only reason to have "rivets" on a hull is if they are part of the construction and not an adornment.

 

 

As for the insides of SH boats again many seem to be clones and all the people that I know that have them have had to fight really hard to get any changes to the basic layout made.

[Edders]

 

"It depends what you want, doesn't it? If you want a showcase for your rather "non working boat" like Kelvin or Gardner, with all it's polished brass, and don't mind bouncing along the bottom on a fairly regular basis, then by all means find yourself a Hudson. If you actually want to go boating, and see lots of canals, unencumbered by a draft of maybe something around the 3 foot mark, you might actually find you extract more pleasure from, (horror of horrors!), a Liverpool Boat, (or even that "design" classic, a Springer!)."

 

Don't knock them as they keep the canal dredged for you!!!!!

 

Tony

[The Anonymous Bard]

As for the insides of SH boats again many seem to be clones and all the people that I know that have them have had to fight really hard to get any changes to the basic layout made.

 

May be... but certainly not in our experience first hand of discussing it with Steve himself and of the many varied interiors of SM Hudson boats that we have viewed.

 

Yes, like many builders he has a "house style" but he is equally willing to bespoke an interior to your own choice as confirmed in his own wording on his website, quote from the FAQ section:

 

"Can we have our own design inside?

 

Yes, as long as it is physically possible and practical to implement your requirements"

 

I think there is much "urban myth" surrounding SM Hudson narrowboats as so much of it contrasts so much with our own experiences.

 

Going back to mass production and Ford Mondeo/Mercedes C Class, if this is what they offer when you referred to their interiors then i'll settle for it any day and walk away with a big smile!

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50005139@N08/4591596773/

[GUMPY]

Going back to mass production and Ford Mondeo/Mercedes C Class, if this is what they offer when you referred to their interiors then i'll settle for it any day and walk away with a big smile!

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50005139@N08/4591596773/

 

Sorry doesn't do it for me at all

Have a look here

http://www.catgravat.com/foweybelle/movies/gallery.html

as to what can be achieved inside a boat I know its wider but.......................

[The Anonymous Bard]

Sorry doesn't do it for me at all

Have a look here

http://www.catgravat.com/foweybelle/movies/gallery.html

as to what can be achieved inside a boat I know its wider but.......................

 

Beautiful!

 

But that wasn't the point... the point was how much the interior of an SM Hudson could be likened to the mass characteristics of a Ford Mondeo/Mercedes C Class as you put it in your earlier post?

 

Regardless of the flair that is shown in the images that you posted could you honestly state that the materials, carpentry and workmanship are of any higher quality than those regularly displayed in an SM Hudson boat?

 

Considering of course that individual features/tastes are primarily the request of the customer and are sometimes formed on a consultative basis between both the builder and the customers choices... but how does this detract from the guys workmanship when he is bound to customer specification yet still displays such craftsmanship in the finish of his boats?

 

Still no Ford Mondeo/Mercedes C Class for me...

[churchward]

What does seem odd to me is that many of the shell builders, budget or expensive, have sought over the years to exaggerate exactly those features that turn to turn many people against them.

 

Earlier Liverpool Boats don't have that overly arched roof, and are much more "normal looking".

 

Some earlier Steve Hudson boats don't have that peculiar bow treatment, and some I'd say were pretty good looking.

 

As has been said it's all personal taste, but the later "Stowe Hill" boats, even if they did not build the shells, are some of the most bizarre I have ever seen, (sorry Dominic!), and I cannot for the life of me imagine why anybody would pay a premium for anything that looks that odd.

 

At least a Liverpool Boat, Colecraft, Mike Heywood, (or whatever), is unashamedly not trying to be anything it is not, and to provide people with a reasonable quality shell, without pretentions of being "Josher" like, "Northwich" like, "tug" like, or anything else.

 

It depends what you want, doesn't it? If you want a showcase for your rather "non working boat" like Kelvin or Gardner, with all it's polished brass, and don't mind bouncing along the bottom on a fairly regular basis, then by all means find yourself a Hudson. If you actually want to go boating, and see lots of canals, unencumbered by a draft of maybe something around the 3 foot mark, you might actually find you extract more pleasure from, (horror of horrors!), a Liverpool Boat, (or even that "design" classic, a Springer!).

 

Incidentally, I agree that something like the well regarded Stoke on Trent Boatbuilders boats represent a very good compromise between the old and the new. There is a lot of "working boat" suggestion in the styling of some, (a particularly nice example where we used to moor), but absolutely no pretentions that they are have "Josher" origins, or anything else that is clearly nowhere near the real mark.

 

(Give me a real working boat though, and I'll snap your fingers off, and happily bounce along the bottom! )

 

I rather like many Stoke boats I have seen. I particularly like the counter design and shape on them.

[matty40s]

Apologies to the proud owner, but this looks like this was built and then driven at speed into a concrete piling several times to finish the effect.

 

each to their own.....

Edited May 10, 2010 by matty40s

[Athy]

I think that to say there is only one choice is to be a trifle uninformed. Go and see how Graham Edgson at Norton Canes builds his shells for example. Or Phill Trotter at R W Davis. And talk to them. And the idea that all replica rivets are all stick on washers is nonsense. The Stoke ones are solid weld for example. Are they necessary? No. How much of your clothing has unnecessary bits on it? Is a tie necessary? Are cuff buttons on a smart jacket necessary? Are shoes on your feet necessary? No. Humans love adornment. Why not?

Reading between the lines Mr. M, it sounds as if you have a few washer-adorned boats on your books at the moment.

Matty, there's one like that round our way. I think it must have been born with a giant clothes peg on its nose.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Athy

[Albion]

Apologies to the proud owner, but this looks like this was built and then driven at speed into a concrete piling several times to finish the effect.

 

each to their own.....

 

How anyone can begin to describe that as Josher style is beyond me...............they should perhaps be sued under the The Sale of Goods Act for inaccurate description of goods

Roger

[Athy]

The ever-informative Partridge's Dictionary of Slang & Unconventional English gives this:

Josh about - to move clumsily.

So maybe there's some justification for the description.

Mr. Partridge's magnum opus also includes the definition of a josher as an FMC boat, with a correct explanation - his dictionary, published I think in the late 1960s, must have been the first to chronicle this usage.

[JohnO]

Most S.M Hudson owner's would do themselves a favour if they sorted out their stern fenders.

[mrsmelly]

"It depends what you want, doesn't it? If you want a showcase for your rather "non working boat" like Kelvin or Gardner, with all it's polished brass, and don't mind bouncing along the bottom on a fairly regular basis, then by all means find yourself a Hudson. If you actually want to go boating, and see lots of canals, unencumbered by a draft of maybe something around the 3 foot mark, you might actually find you extract more pleasure from, (horror of horrors!), a Liverpool Boat, (or even that "design" classic, a Springer!)."

 

Don't knock them as they keep the canal dredged for you!!!!!

 

Tony

 

Or of course you can still have a fab Hudson with only a 2ft 4 inche draught with a proper beta 43 in the back and no old bus or crane engine fitted and have the quality without problematic draught.............

[Dominic M]

Or of course you can still have a fab Hudson with only a 2ft 4 inche draught with a proper beta 43 in the back and no old bus or crane engine fitted and have the quality without problematic draught.............

Indeed. Why not have an engine designed for a mini digger or a fork lift .

 

On the subject of unnecessary rivets, they are pure adornment of course. If someone likes the way they look, then why not? We do it with cars, houses and just about everything else.

 

Chelsea won the Premiership yesterday, They could have done so by winning 1-0. The other 7 goals were completely unnecessary adornment. But personally, I loved it .

 

Edited to add: Before someone wisecracks, I don't mean adding rivets to cars or houses. Might be interesting though!

Edited May 10, 2010 by Dominic M

[alan_fincher]

On the subject of unnecessary rivets, they are pure adornment of course. If someone likes the way they look, then why not?

Well obviously not all builders do it the same, do they ?

 

No doubt some are very well attached and don't form completely pointless rust traps.

 

But I have certainly seen what are clearly meant to be "quality" shells with the only visible rust runs all starting at fake rivets.

 

I can't believe that's too clever.

 

The other problem with it seems to be that few builders doing it have actually taken long enough studying real rivets on say either a Josher or a GU boat.

 

Generally the fakes are so heavy handed as to look ridiculous.

 

One doesn't often look at them and say "now are those real or not?", do they ?

 

Barry Hawkins boats seem to be particularly heavy handed on fake rivets, or at least several I have seen.

[The Anonymous Bard]

Veering away slightly...

 

This looks a right little cracker for a weekend/short holiday boat, first came across a pic some time ago and now appearing on Duck, lovely lines for 36'...

 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/image....202ℑ=1

[Albion]

snipped.

 

The other problem with it seems to be that few builders doing it have actually taken long enough studying real rivets on say either a Josher or a GU boat.

 

Generally the fakes are so heavy handed as to look ridiculous.

 

Agreed. The real rivets on a real Josher are very subtle, merely a slightly raised bulge, hardly protruding above the sheet metal. I'm no expert on Joshers but could it be that what you see is the hammered over tail of the rivet and that the bulbous head is inside the boat or is it that the head was of a countersunk design and the hot riveted tail is inside the boat? Anybody had a chance to study it closely?

Roger