Improving the basics for new boaters.

[Mick and Maggie]

And who pays their wages?

 

Whoever Hires the narrow boat and is named on the passport.

 

It will come to that in time - I expect insurance companies will eventually want all boaters to have the Inland Helmsman type qualification just to be a named helmsman on the policy. They will asses the risk (they are very good at doing that) and when the time arrives it will become a condition of the policy.

 

If I was running a boat hire business - I would want my staff to be skilled enough to be able to do a basic hand-over to a new boater.

 

 

ACPO Quote "When looking for a company to take your first boating holiday with, you need to be sure you will be given suitable tuition before leaving the base.

It can be a daunting task travelling down the waterways for the first time. It isn’t difficult but in order that you feel comfortable you need to be with a company who takes your enjoyment and safety seriously.

 

The National Guide to Hire Boat Handover is available to hire boat operators to help promote safe enjoyment of the inland waterways. The logo can be a useful tool for you to look for when selecting your chosen holiday company.

 

You will find those APCO members who are currently in the scheme display the logo beside their company details.

 

Those companies allowed to display the logo have undergone an audited process to insure their instruction and handover process to customers includes all the information you will need to be sure you will know how to handle the boat and facilities aboard safely so you enjoy your boating adventure to the full.

 

The scheme draws together good practice from practical experience of APCO members in the UK.

 

An effective handover procedure, properly managed, will help to raise customer satisfaction, keep the boat and passengers safe, as well as showing the company that its customers safety is an issue that is taken seriously."

Edited April 14, 2010 by Mick and Maggie

[carlt]

It will come to that in time - I expect insurance companies will eventually want all boaters to have the Inland Helmsman type qualification just to be a named helmsman on the policy. They will asses the risk (they are very good at doing that) and when the time arrives it will become a condition of the policy.

You think so?

 

My insurance company doesn't even need to know the name of the boat.

[Naughty Cal]

Whoever Hires the narrow boat and is named on the passport.

 

It will come to that in time - I expect insurance companies will eventually want all boaters to have the Inland Helmsman type qualification just to be a named helmsman on the policy. They will asses the risk (they are very good at doing that) and when the time arrives it will become a condition of the policy.

 

If I was running a boat hire business - I would want my staff to be skilled enough to be able to do a basic hand-over to a new boater.

 

 

ACPO Quote "When looking for a company to take your first boating holiday with, you need to be sure you will be given suitable tuition before leaving the base.

It can be a daunting task travelling down the waterways for the first time. It isn’t difficult but in order that you feel comfortable you need to be with a company who takes your enjoyment and safety seriously.

 

The National Guide to Hire Boat Handover is available to hire boat operators to help promote safe enjoyment of the inland waterways. The logo can be a useful tool for you to look for when selecting your chosen holiday company.

 

You will find those APCO members who are currently in the scheme display the logo beside their company details.

 

Those companies allowed to display the logo have undergone an audited process to insure their instruction and handover process to customers includes all the information you will need to be sure you will know how to handle the boat and facilities aboard safely so you enjoy your boating adventure to the full.

 

The scheme draws together good practice from practical experience of APCO members in the UK.

 

An effective handover procedure, properly managed, will help to raise customer satisfaction, keep the boat and passengers safe, as well as showing the company that its customers safety is an issue that is taken seriously."

 

Where to start.

 

Have you ever hired a boat? If you have you will know that you do recieve an amount of tuition from the hire base. It is up to you to tell them when you feel confident enough to take the boat. Some are done very quickly others have a very thorough hand over it depends on the company.

 

Hire companies can not expect potential hirers to pay an additional charge to recieve tuition and a "passport". Most simply wont do it. It would spell the end of the UK hire boat industry.

 

I dont know what you intend to achieve with this topic, but to suggest all hirers must have a qualification is just plain silly. You dont need one to own and use your own boat why would you get one to hire a boat?

[magpie patrick]

I still don't think you get it. Boat hire is frickin expensive already, and also is not that profitable, it is far cheaper to have a holiday cottage. What you are proposing is to put another barrier into the market, so not only does newbie who is considering first hire find that a week is £1000 plus (by way of comparison, Val and I are spending less for ten days in Sark and Guernsey, including flights, ferry, accomodation and hire car) this will add to the cost of the first holiday, and it won't be £25, the guy doing the training will be paid £8 an hour, plus on-costs which mean his salary cost alone will top £25, and the scheme would have to be self funding so his or her training, the administration of the scheme (there would have to be a central register for example) etc will easily double this.

 

So there you go, newb rings booking agency, finds £1000 plus hire fee, £150 damage waiver, fuel deposit £75, oh, and as you haven't got a "passport" another fifty. Newb puts phone down and goes back to the Centre Parcs brochure...

[ditchcrawler]

So I take it you'd be happy to let a novice having viewed a 15 minute video and 30 minute (if you're lucky) practical instruction go out on your boat? lol

All the hire companies are and they let 100s of people do it every year on their just as expensive and probably newer boats without much of a problem.

Now having kids and pushing prams, for that you should have a license

[ambuvanner]

So there you go, newb rings booking agency, finds £1000 plus hire fee, £150 damage waiver, fuel deposit £75, oh, and as you haven't got a "passport" another fifty. Newb puts phone down and goes back to the Centre Parcs brochure...

What makes you think this would stop hirers? £1500 for a summer week hasn't stopped them as far as I'm aware.

[Idunhoe]

To be fair hirers more often than not get instruction from the hire base, new buyers are frequently left to their own devices. When I bought my boat it was a case of 'here are the keys off you go and enjoy it'. For every new purchaser that takes the trouble to do some homework before their maiden voyage there is at least one who does not.

[ditchcrawler]

I still don't think you get it. Boat hire is frickin expensive already, and also is not that profitable, it is far cheaper to have a holiday cottage. What you are proposing is to put another barrier into the market, so not only does newbie who is considering first hire find that a week is £1000 plus (by way of comparison, Val and I are spending less for ten days in Sark and Guernsey, including flights, ferry, accomodation and hire car) this will add to the cost of the first holiday, and it won't be £25, the guy doing the training will be paid £8 an hour, plus on-costs which mean his salary cost alone will top £25, and the scheme would have to be self funding so his or her training, the administration of the scheme (there would have to be a central register for example) etc will easily double this.

 

So there you go, newb rings booking agency, finds £1000 plus hire fee, £150 damage waiver, fuel deposit £75, oh, and as you haven't got a "passport" another fifty. Newb puts phone down and goes back to the Centre Parcs brochure...

Even the French had more sence than insisting hires had an ICC

[Ray T]

Needing qualifications is well advanced in the offshore sailing world.

 

When I first chartered yachts in the 1970's any one could charter a yacht and sail off into the wide blue yonder.

 

When a group of us chartered a yacht to sail to Cherberg last year, the company who chartered the yacht demanded at least one of the crew, who was designated skipper,

held a "Yachmaster Offshore Certificate of Competence", complete with current 1st aid certificate and VHF license, (in this instance me).

 

For remaining within British coastal waters they demand "Coastal Skipper" Certificate.

 

I know the inherent dangers of sailing offshore are more critical than boating on the "cut".

 

Incidentally the cost of chartering a yacht is not all that different than the cost of narrowboat hire.

 

I can actually see both side of the argument here.

 

What I do find difficult to comprehend the attitude from some quarters, that the RYA Inland Helmsman's Certificate is a waste of time.

 

You cannot have it both ways, complain about the standard of boatmanship, of some hirers and private owners and say qualifications are irrelevant.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Ray T

[Graham Davis]

To be fair hirers more often than not get instruction from the hire base, new buyers are frequently left to their own devices. When I bought my boat it was a case of 'here are the keys off you go and enjoy it'. For every new purchaser that takes the trouble to do some homework before their maiden voyage there is at least one who does not.

 

UTTER RUBBISH!!

Have you read the APCO link posted earlier?

Even the company that hired those boats with no front window gave some instruction!! The biggest problem is that too many hirers don't actually both to listen to what is said, and just want to get away.

[Guest]

The biggest problem is that too many hirers don't actually both to listen to what is said, and just want to get away.

 

Sorry I don't entirely agree.

 

The problem is the amount of info. you have to take in.

 

This ranges from what the red light coming on, on the fridge means to how to change the gas over through to how to check the oil, water, weed hatch, how to work the heating I could go on, and thats before we get into how to negotiate a lock, reverse, turn etc etc.

 

These are all things that come naturally to owners with their own boats, many of them will come without thinking.

 

Us hirers have a lot to contend with especially with our first/second hire, even after that different company boats have their own idiosyncrasies so when you move onto a different boat some of it has to be learnt all over again. Of course the more you hire the less there is to take in each time.

 

This might sound like an argument to extend the handover time but it's not - I can't quote the study but I understand the average persons learning/attention span is 20 mins. after that, it's a lost cause trying to squeeze anything else in.

[magpie patrick]

What makes you think this would stop hirers? £1500 for a summer week hasn't stopped them as far as I'm aware.

 

It has, look at BW licence figures, the number of hire boats registered has fallen 10% in ten years, no research but at a rough guess it's too expensive

 

assuming you have written the capital off (which we have, because "we" didn't spend it, I did when I was single) it is now cheaper to pay the running costs of a boat than to hire one for two weeks and a weekend.

 

And it's now Whit half term which is the busiest period, due to competition from cheap foriegn holidays for the summer break.

 

Wake up, this is not a growth business and the survival of the canal system depends on it. No I don't hire, but thankfully other people do otherwise the waterways I love will be closed. More people die swimming and cycling than on canal boats, so why the hell do you want to charge more to regulate it.

[sueb]

Look at all the fun having a 'passport' will prevent. Does anyone remember their first hire? Trying to fend off trees with a boat pole; doing the splits when going ashore; seeing three planks when coming back from the pub. Some people are spoilsports.

Sue

[ditchcrawler]

Sorry I don't entirely agree.

 

The problem is the amount of info. you have to take in.

 

This ranges from what the red light coming on, on the fridge means to how to change the gas over through to how to check the oil, water, weed hatch, how to work the heating I could go on, and thats before we get into how to negotiate a lock, reverse, turn etc etc.

 

These are all things that come naturally to owners with their own boats, many of them will come without thinking.

 

Us hirers have a lot to contend with especially with our first/second hire, even after that different company boats have their own idiosyncrasies so when you move onto a different boat some of it has to be learnt all over again. Of course the more you hire the less there is to take in each time.

 

This might sound like an argument to extend the handover time but it's not - I can't quote the study but I understand the average persons learning/attention span is 20 mins. after that, it's a lost cause trying to squeeze anything else in.

I think your right. When we hired in France they told us not to look at the engine,it would be OK. Why do they still expect UK hirers to check oil,water etc every day. How many car drivers check their oil water etc EVERY day.

[Guest]

I think your right. When we hired in France they told us not to look at the engine,it would be OK. Why do they still expect UK hirers to check oil,water etc every day. How many car drivers check their oil water etc EVERY day.

 

Well please don't tell anybody but latterly I've often not bothered, this includes the daily weed hatch check, as I've learnt over time the symptoms of something around the prop and will remove as I need too.

 

I do think the same as you, it still leaves a lot to take in though especially the first couple of times, when you might not have the knowledge to know what you can safely forget.

[carlt]

How many car drivers check their oil water etc EVERY day.

If I've taken my car on a long journey, running the engine all day, then I'll check the oil and water, the next time I use it.

[Guest]

If I've taken my car on a long journey, running the engine all day, then I'll check the oil and water, the next time I use it.

 

What about the weed hatch?

[carlt]

What about the weed hatch?

I drive classic cars that predate the introduction of the weed hatch.

[Dominic M]

From my canalside office I get to observe the antics of hire boaters every day. Because four hire boats operate from Stowe Hill (near Weedon on the GU for those not familiar with the location) there are times during handover when the channel is a little congested by double mooring whilst they are refuelled and serviced. Other hire boats pass by and slow down to negotiate. They do so with patience and care on almost every occasion.

 

A tiny but noticeable number of the privately owned boats that pass through race to get to the bridge hole first, whinnying about the narrowed passage, caring not one jot about the moored boats they are passing, shouting things such as. "one more boat and they could block it completely". In short, showing a complete lack of consideration for any other boater or a canalside business trying to earn a living.

 

Please don't go on about a "boat passport" or "boat driving licence" for the hirers. They are generally very considerate people looking to enjoy a holiday. Do go on about that small minority of private owners who think they have a God given right to enjoy a canal without any other boats on it, object to canal side businesses going about their trade so that they can pay the rent and make a living, have no idea how to handle their boats in locks, don't know how to tie up their boats properly, and use bowthrusters to negotiate the slightest change of direction because they can't be bothered to learn how to steer, or even insist in the broad GU locks that no one shares the lock with them in case their rubbing strakes get rubbed. They are the ones that need passports.

[carlt]

They are the ones that need passports...

...and a one way plane ticket.

[Gibbo]

Please don't go on about a "boat passport" or "boat driving licence" for the hirers. They are generally very considerate people looking to enjoy a holiday.

 

They're often also a damned site happier than some of the miserable looking gits who own boats.

 

How many times have we all seen a private boat with the bloke steering and mutteriing and the woman sat on the front deck with a face on her that would scare a police horse?

[Allan(nb Albert)]

W

From my canalside office I get to observe the antics of hire boaters every day. Because four hire boats operate from Stowe Hill (near Weedon on the GU for those not familiar with the location) there are times during handover when the channel is a little congested by double mooring whilst they are refuelled and serviced. Other hire boats pass by and slow down to negotiate. They do so with patience and care on almost every occasion.

 

A tiny but noticeable number of the privately owned boats that pass through race to get to the bridge hole first, whinnying about the narrowed passage, caring not one jot about the moored boats they are passing, shouting things such as. "one more boat and they could block it completely". In short, showing a complete lack of consideration for any other boater or a canalside business trying to earn a living.

 

Please don't go on about a "boat passport" or "boat driving licence" for the hirers. They are generally very considerate people looking to enjoy a holiday. Do go on about that small minority of private owners who think they have a God given right to enjoy a canal without any other boats on it, object to canal side businesses going about their trade so that they can pay the rent and make a living, have no idea how to handle their boats in locks, don't know how to tie up their boats properly, and use bowthrusters to negotiate the slightest change of direction because they can't be bothered to learn how to steer, or even insist in the broad GU locks that no one shares the lock with them in case their rubbing strakes get rubbed. They are the ones that need passports.

 

Well said Dominic!

 

At the very least a new hirer will get some instruction. A new owner will get none.

 

I would suggest that those that advocate a "boat passport" or "boat driving licence" are the very people who would claim that they do not need one.

 

It is the MCA (Maritime and Coastguard Agency) that are responsible for safety of craft on inland waterways. They are in the process drawing up a new hire boat code following an incident in 2003.

 

However, this initiative has been thrown in to disarray when it was discovered that some private boats were being included.

 

Quite simply it is wrong to insist that some new boat users (i.e. hirers) are subject to rules when others are not.

 

It is also wrong for those that have not had formal training to suggest others should have.

[Dominic M]

How many times have we all seen a private boat with the bloke steering and muttering and the woman sat on the front deck with a face on her that would scare a police horse?

A fabulous description that I will be plagiarising in the future.

[CV32]

Until three weeks ago i was a 'hirer'. I received differing training from the different hire company's but always tried to listen to the advice given. Now i am the proud owner of my own boat and will hopefully continue to gain experience.

I am sure that some people will always have questionable piloting skills, just as you very often come across terrible car drivers.

[Dominic M]

Until three weeks ago i was a 'hirer'. I received differing training from the different hire company's but always tried to listen to the advice given. Now i am the proud owner of my own boat and will hopefully continue to gain experience.

I am sure that some people will always have questionable piloting skills, just as you very often come across terrible car drivers.

I'll tell you what, mate. We all learned somewhere, somehow. We never stop learning, or if we do, then that is a pity. Always take advice, sift through it and discard the poor from the valuable, and most of all, enjoy the boating and smile when things don't work out quite as you meant them to.

 

There was no Helmsman's Course when I started, but there were more old hands around to help if you were prepared to listen. From them I learned things like the boatman's hitch, placing the bow of the boat against the lock gate, taking a bow rope back to the centre bollard in broad locks and using the motor to prevent being banged around, and ensuring that the pint was filled to the brim at the pub you ended up at. If in doubt, hold back in good time whilst keeping tick over power to be able to hold the boat, and then judge what to do next. The mooring you're looking for will still be there, and if you are really in a hurry, there is always a taxi service available in most areas.

 

Enjoy. There's a great community of people on the cut and patience is the only price of joining them.

Edited April 14, 2010 by Dominic M