BCN boat

[Speedwheel]

Anyone know which one this is? There can't be many 47ft BCN boats.

 

I have asked, but apparently there is no BCN number or any other info on it.

 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=140403

Edited March 19, 2010 by Speedwheel

[springy]

Dont know anything about the boat, but it looks like its on the

main line outside caggys yard.

 

springy

[Speedwheel]

It is at Caggys

[Derek R.]

Tempted to think it was cut down for use on maintenance and the cabin added later. I'll bet Blossom knows summat.

Basis of a spoon dredger?

 

Derek

[Athy]

Unfortunately the Apollo Dick web site is inaccessible at the moment (8.25 a.m.)

[alan_fincher]

It would be interesting to see the other end, to know if it's a basic Joey, or something with a bit more lines.

 

I'm guessing the latter, as it now has the raked stern post of something a bit classier, rather than (I'm guessing) something that had just boxy ends where the rudder could be hung at either.

 

I seem to recall walking the Staffs and Worcs seeing something of this ilk probably cut to around the sort of length shown, still in use on maintenance. I'm fairly certain that boat had both it's original ends, and had simply had a bit removed in the middle.

[Speedwheel]

ta da

 

You are indeed correct Alan

 

Edited March 20, 2010 by Speedwheel

[alan_fincher]

If it's not a colander, there is the potential for something nice there.

 

I wonder what the bottom is now, as I'm guessing it may well have been composite once ?

 

(:tongue_in_cheek: It even has real rivets, so that must add a few £k to it's value!).

[Speedwheel]

Will be a shame if someone buys to it to cut up/convert.

 

Quite tempted myself.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Speedwheel

[alan_fincher]

Hard, isn't it ?

 

Once two-a-penny, nobody would have given them a second glance.

 

Now amazingly rare, considering how many once.

 

Personally, (Philistine alert!), I'd rather see it nicely converted, with a bit of sympathy, than just a rusting hulk.

 

As it has already been cut, it wouldn't trouble me to see that happen, in this case. Nice if it could be reasonably achieved without the inevitable counter stern, though.

[BuckbyLocks]

Tempted to think it was cut down for use on maintenance and the cabin added later. I'll bet Blossom knows summat.

Basis of a spoon dredger?

 

Derek

 

Cabin looks fairly recent. Was it one of the ones shortened to work with the pusher tugs on the Hardy Spicer contract? Sunk at the Ryders Green Junction for many years. I know one of the tugs went to Caggy's Yard but can't remember about the shortened ones.

[Blossom]

Although this day boat (Joey's are wooden boats) is moored outside Caggy's old yard it has been there for some time and has been operated with a short BCN style purpose new built tug but I don't think it is anything to do with Caggy's now. Caggy bought two of these short day boats off Alfred Matty and yes they were designed to work with push tugs. The one in the photo is one of these two Matty's boats and is a Harris built boat, of Bumblehole, Netherton. I have looked at this boat before and I can't see a join so it was either purpose built this length or it was shortened many years ago and the two ends riveted back together. It is definitely not one of the Hardy Spicer day boats as these were over 50 foot long and worked by the push tug Lion (now named Cambrai) which some years ago was also in Caggy's yard. I saw the other of the two Matty's short boats Caggy had about four years ago half way down the old thirteen where some canal side offices were being refurbished and its short steel cabin was still painted in Matty's primrose yellow, although faded..

[Laurence Hogg]

Anyone know which one this is? There can't be many 47ft BCN boats.

 

I have asked, but apparently there is no BCN number or any other info on it.

 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=140403

 

I feel fairly sure this is one of the full length boats Harris Bros converted for the Forgings & Pressing fleet. Although short lived the fleet did expand and at one time two bantam tugs were employed. The new boats are quite distinctive but the others were older boats. this one looks like a Hickman boat to me, although the thin guard irons are reminisent of those used by Harris's in the last throws of boatbuilding when they were building leisure craft. Mattys certainly had the F&P boats in their fleet.

 

If I am not mistaken one of the Bantams lay with some of the fleet at Pudding Green Jcn for many years on the site of the the old dock there.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Laurence Hogg

[Speedwheel]

Thanks for the info one and all!

[luctor et emergo]

Does anybody have any info on the builder Harris? I'm buying a boat which may have been build there.

 

Thanks

[dave moore]

Does anybody have any info on the builder Harris? I'm buying a boat which may have been build there.

 

Thanks

 

Hi

I knew the Harris's in their final years of trading in the mid to late 60s. They were a pair of brothers who worked at that time primarily repairing iron Joey boats, usually riveting plates over thin sections. I don't recall them welding at all tho' the "gas axe" was used to cut plates. They worked out in the open with a portable hand forge (complete with an enormous set of hand bellows, an upgraded version of the domestic ones I remember).

 

There was a workshop with some seriously big machinery, the notable one being a punch which knocked holes thro steel quarter plate for rivets with ease!

They may well have worked in wood beforehand as there was also a steam chest on the yard.

 

The overall style was crude industrial, if compared to modern builders work - one conversion had straight swims from full width to the end IIRC.

 

I recently discovered some old B&W photos I took then when the yard had just closed. I'll try and post them soon. Hope this helps.

Cheers

Dave

[Paul H]

Does anybody have any info on the builder Harris? I'm buying a boat which may have been build there.

 

Thanks

 

Harris Brothers were based at Bumblehole (Windmill End) on the BCN and built a large number of BCN dayboats and also a series of tugs in the 1940s (as well as the cabins for Bittell and Pacific then numbered tugs in the Stewarts and Lloyds fleet.) They were also resposible for a number of pleasure boat conversions (from BCN dayboats) and some new build hulls. I don't know how long they survived but certainly into the 1960s and as far as I know they continued to use riveting long after everyone else had gone over to welding.

They also shortening some ex-carrying boats for use as tugs and repaired metal boats for carriers who couldn't do this work themselves (eg Barlows and Yates Brothers)

 

Their work is rather "agricultural" built for strength rather than beauty with heavy plating and rather utilitarian lines. Counters on their conversions and new build pleasure boats are often square in plan and the swim underneath is a simple V shape, often quite short which doen't make for the best handling particularly in reverse. Another characteristic is very chunky stern dollies.

 

Harris boats certainly have a certain utilitarian beauty and are built like the proverbial brick ****house. Hopefully Mr Hogg will be along with more info.

 

Paul

Edited April 19, 2010 by Paul H

[luctor et emergo]

Yes, some of those description seem to fit the boat I'm buying.

 

Is 11'6'' a short swim, or is that ok? It does look like it's pretty much a straight v shape though.. should be interesting.

[alan_fincher]

We had a BCN day-boat, allegedly 1898, though never proven, which Harris Brothers had shortened to 40 feet, with a crude rear end, (added whilst the boat was spread! )

 

It had been a Stewarts & Lloyds tube carrier in wrought iron, and would have originally been composite. The assumption is that not only did Harris Brothers do the shortening, but also the bottom was replaced in steel sheet at the same time.

 

The descriptions by Paul and Dave fit perfectly their modus operandi!. Very "agricultural" - Springers often have more swim, and ours "handled" in reverse like the proverbial pig on roller skates.

 

As has been said, despite the 1960-ish conversion, everything was riveted - there was not a weld anywhere on the boat, and it was not that obvious sometimes whether bit were 1960s, or 60 years older.

 

These conversions often have a near-square transom stern, often with just a small curve in it, but near 90 degree corners. A Harris converted Joey is pretty easy to spot, and I've not heard of anyone else doing this type of work so late on. One still sees them.

 

Our boat, apparently, was originally marinised with a petrol parrafin, ("TVO"), engine, but had been dieselised before we bought her. I'll add some pics, if I can track them down on Photobucket.

 

Crude, but because they built real boats as well, in a way I like them, because the conversions were no doubt done alongside them working on boats still carrying.

[BEngo]

Yes, some of those description seem to fit the boat I'm buying.

 

Is 11'6'' a short swim, or is that ok? It does look like it's pretty much a straight v shape though.. should be interesting.

 

 

I have boated quite extensively with one of the half dozen Harris built pleasure boats of the early 60's. The swim is a simple straight V shape, about that length and 2ft draught. It tends to dig a big hole in the water at the entry to the swim on either side, slightly worse on one side than the other. That produces a quite dirty wake and a substantial wash. Nonetheless the boat swims well and goes like stink.

 

N

[Laurence Hogg]

Harris boats certainly have a certain utilitarian beauty and are built like the proverbial brick ****house. Hopefully Mr Hogg will be along with more info.

 

Paul

 

I believe they carried on until about 1980 when the remaining boats were sold off. Greg Klaes from Claydon had a couple. Their work was certainly somewhat crude and I guess a straight swim would be of their making. They built the motor Joey boat "Ben" for instance whos "lines" ar rugged but typical Black Country style. The boatyard eventually became a night club and during that peroid most remnants dissapeared including their famous crane (dismantled and stored so I believe). This picture from the late Ray White sums the place up.

 

The butty in the background is "Irene" from Harvey Taylors fleet, formely GUCCCo "Sarpedon" a middle Northwich boat, butty to Sickle.

 

If you look at the joey on the dock on the left, the for end is similar to the one for sale.

 

Edited April 19, 2010 by Laurence Hogg

[dave moore]

Hi Lairence

Harris brothers definitely finished in the 60s - probably 67 or 68. The sister lived in the house on the site and died around the same time. A fireman called Roy Chater bought the house and site in the late 60s and lived afloat in a sort of floating chalet near the slipway. I recall this clearly as I was hoping to rent the house for my new wife and I in 1971. It never came to pass, I've forgotten why now. As I recall, both brothers were well into reirement age when I knew them in the 60s - I was still at school!

 

The boat with framing on the right of your picture could well be "Bumblebee", an early conversion of an old Stewarts and Lloyds joey to a floating classroom. That was in 1958 and that boat was my introduction to canals in 1961

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[alan_fincher]

As promised,

 

Some previously published pictures of our BCN "Stewarts and Lloyds" boat, the subject of a Harris Brother's shortening in the early 1960s.

 

This shows the stern end treatment quite well.....

 

 

The swim litterally started on a hard bend in the plate - no curvature at all.....

 

Very short too.

 

Not that easy to see here, but it doesn't start until a point behind where the straps are, a little aft of the leading edge of the red panel of the rear cabin.....

 

Edited April 20, 2010 by alan_fincher

[alan_fincher]

Actually just found one to scan in that maybe shows the crudeness of a "Harris Brothers" swim a little more clearly.....

 

 

Just visible beyond the start of the swim is the horrible unguarded open tube that was the start of the boat's raw water cooling

 

Anybody who thinks a conversion of a work boat necessarily means a deep draughted boat that ploughs up the mud could take a look at these pictures, BTW.

 

This drew even less than our now much more modern purpose built pleasure craft. Less than 2 feet draught, in fact.

[luctor et emergo]

well, that stern looks nothing like the stern on the boat I'm buying.

 

I'm trying to uopload a picture...