Would you start the engine (hard standing)

[boots]

OK, our first newbie mistake - don't buy your first narrow boat in the coldest winter for 30 years!!! The frustration is killing!

 

On a more serious note, we recently bought our boat, and she was put on hard standing for the survey and commisioned blacking for the hull - so far so good, and then the weather hit! So she is currently still on hard standing waiting for the weather.

 

In addition,

 

Batteries are flat, No mains/shoreline available where she is (and has no mains charger anyway) - there is a wind turbine, just no wind!

no heating (waiting for new stove to be fitted, and Webasto won't start due to flat batteries)

Engine not run since beginning of december,

 

 

A friend has suggested that I should run the engine, for up to about 1 hour while she is out of the water i) to keep the engine oiled and ii) put a bit of charge into the batteries

 

What do you think? would you start her up? I was just going to wait until she is back in the water..

 

 

(she is a liverpool Boats, Isuzu 35hp engine)

 

Boots

[churchward]

As long as your colling system is a skin tank sealed type then there won't be an issue starting the engine but you would need to keep an eye on the engine temp. This is because there is no canal water on the outside of the boat to cool the water in the skin tank.

 

Alternative is to remove the batteries and take them home to charge them.

[Giggetty]

• Unless aircooled, never run an engine out of the water for more than a few minutes-unless a very large skin tank.
  
• In any case, first you'll have to remove the cranking battery and recharge somewhere near a mains power point-or else hand crank
  

[Timleech]

I would take the batteries off, take them somewhere they can be put on charge. The longer they are left discharged, the more their life will be shortened, and just running for an hour won't fully charge them. Don't worry about not running the engine for a month or two. A very short run could do more harm than not running at all.

 

If you do decide to run the engine, you'll need to ensure that no-one can get near the prop while the engine is running, and keep an eye on the coolant temperature.

 

Tim

[Billypownall]

As long as your colling system is a skin tank sealed type then there won't be an issue starting the engine but you would need to keep an eye on the engine temp. This is because there is no canal water on the outside of the boat to cool the water in the skin tank.

 

Alternative is to remove the batteries and take them home to charge them.

Wholeheartedly agree. You are not doing the engine any good leaving it dormant and certainly ruining the battereies. Furthermore Webasto and Eberspachers tend to more problems when they are left long periods without use. Careful monitoring of the temperature gauge is a must but I would have thought it unlikely to overheat for some time in these freezing conditions.Maybe the colarifier has not been drained which would again keep the engine temperature within bounds for a long time.

[Naughty Cal]

Wholeheartedly agree. You are not doing the engine any good leaving it dormant and certainly ruining the battereies. Furthermore Webasto and Eberspachers tend to more problems when they are left long periods without use. Careful monitoring of the temperature gauge is a must but I would have thought it unlikely to overheat for some time in these freezing conditions.Maybe the colarifier has not been drained which would again keep the engine temperature within bounds for a long time.

 

And on the other hand most engine wear is caused when cold at start up. So long as the engine has clean oil, standing it for a couple of months shouldnt be a problem. Just dont rev it hard when you do fire it up, it wont have any oil pressure to begin with.

[GSer]

Just my opinion but an hours running will do little for your batteries, and may not be enough to get the oil hot enough to dry out any condensation in the crankcases/gearbox, so I wouldn't bother. Turn the engine over to keep the oil in the right places but don't start it, make sure any water in the domestic circuits is drained or antfreezed somehow and make sure the engine has antifreeze and that this is fresh and effective.

 

Hire/borrow a genny to charge your batteries, first the engine start battery then your service pack.

 

 

Good Luck! If you get through this first part the rest of boat ownership will be a doddle

 

Paul

[DHutch]

I have to admit, while i see no problem with running the engine for as long as the skin tank remains a sensable temperature (ie, sub 50-60 or so) which may take quite some time, i dont think it would actually buy you very much, compaired to taking the batterys out of the boat and getting a mains charger on them for a day or so.

 

Congratulations on your boat by the way!

 

 

 

Daniel

[casper ghost]

We ran my brothers air cooled lister while the boat was on land, clearly no problem with over-heating then but it did shake the boat to bits without the water around the hull to dampen it.

[Eeyore]

Maybe the colarifier has not been drained which would again keep the engine temperature within bounds for a long time.

The batteries will be the least of your problems if there is still water in the domestic system

[alan_fincher]

I'm in the "don't do this" camp.

 

What Paul (GSer) says is fine ..... Turn it over, but don't start it.

 

Unless it has a very large skin tank capacity, (which is actually poor skin tank design!), even in this cold weather, I do not think it will run for very long, before the whole of that goes over thermostat temperature.

 

Certainly not long enough to put any meaningful charge in your batteries - you may take more out of your starter battery trying than you manage to put back, if it proves to be reluctant to start in the extreme cold, and you have to keep trying....

 

If you need to charge your batteries, use a charger, generator, or whatever, (removing them if necessary), but I'd not try running the engine, personally.

[John Orentas]

I'm in the "don't do this" camp.

 

I'm not!

 

Give it a run for an hour or so, can't imagine you could overheat the engine this weather.. Things will start to dry out and that can't be a bad thing.

[Arnot]

I would take the batteries off, take them somewhere they can be put on charge. The longer they are left discharged, the more their life will be shortened, and just running for an hour won't fully charge them. Don't worry about not running the engine for a month or two. A very short run could do more harm than not running at all.

 

If you do decide to run the engine, you'll need to ensure that no-one can get near the prop while the engine is running, and keep an eye on the coolant temperature.

 

Tim

Just to add to Tim's good advice, I would suggest you prioritise removing the batteries and charging them. In these cold temperatures, the low SG of flat batteries can allow them to freeze up and then the are fubar'ed!

 

Regards

 

Arnot

[colin stone]

If you have a skin tank, it will be barely warm after an hour. I ran my 8ltr engine at upto 1500 rpm for an hour out over the water in July and the engine was just getting up to its opertaing temp and the keel coolers were just warm.

[n.b.Goldie]

If you have a skin tank, it will be barely warm after an hour. I ran my 8ltr engine at upto 1500 rpm for an hour out over the water in July and the engine was just getting up to its opertaing temp and the keel coolers were just warm.

I agree, when I blacked my previous boat at Willowbridge I ran the motor (Beta Marine) whilst on the bank mainly to heat the calorifier, the engine got to its operating temp as quickly as usual (about 10 mins) and even after an hour the skin tank (9sq ft) was just hand warm.

 

I did avoid the temptation to put it in gear though (just to see the prop go round, sad I know), just in case someone ended up being 'blended'

 

Cheers

Ditchdabbler

[bag 'o' bones]

I agree, when I blacked my previous boat at Willowbridge I ran the motor (Beta Marine) whilst on the bank mainly to heat the calorifier, the engine got to its operating temp as quickly as usual (about 10 mins) and even after an hour the skin tank (9sq ft) was just hand warm.

 

I did avoid the temptation to put it in gear though (just to see the prop go round, sad I know), just in case someone ended up being 'blended'

 

Cheers

Ditchdabbler

 

When you think about it a narrow boat shell is one hell of a heat sink!

[Proper Job]

I can't see that running the engine with sub zero external temperatures will make it overheat.

 

The alternator(s) will put negligible load on the engine and I'd be surprised if it overheated. It's not exactly working hard!

[GSer]

Overheating is not the problem, not getting it all hot enough in an hours running would worry me more in this cold weather. Engines if properly prepared can stand for ages over winter and still start OK in the spring. Running the engine and not 'drying out' the oil in both the engine and the gearbox can cause condensation to build up.

 

There is also the problem of the engine bay becoming effected by condensation when the engine warms the air around it then the damp warm air has little chance to escape so water is deposited on all cold surfaces, including electrical components, in the engine bay.

 

JME

 

Paul

[ditchcrawler]

If you have a skin tank, it will be barely warm after an hour. I ran my 8ltr engine at upto 1500 rpm for an hour out over the water in July and the engine was just getting up to its opertaing temp and the keel coolers were just warm.

When I was fitting Harnser I often ran the engine for a couple of hours and the outside of the hull where the skin tank was, was hardly warm. Don't forget you are running this on virtually no load, only the alternator.

[Proper Job]

Overheating is not the problem, not getting it all hot enough in an hours running would worry me more in this cold weather. Engines if properly prepared can stand for ages over winter and still start OK in the spring. Running the engine and not 'drying out' the oil in both the engine and the gearbox can cause condensation to build up.

 

There is also the problem of the engine bay becoming effected by condensation when the engine warms the air around it then the damp warm air has little chance to escape so water is deposited on all cold surfaces, including electrical components, in the engine bay.

 

JME

 

Paul

No different to a live-a-board semi trad or cruiser stern running its engine for a couple of hours a day during the winter months?

 

There are plenty of them doing it.

[GSer]

No different to a live-a-board semi trad or cruiser stern running its engine for a couple of hours a day during the winter months?

 

There are plenty of them doing it.

 

 

A couple of hours is better than one and four hours better than two IME

 

The OP was saying he could run the engine for an hour and I don't think that will be long enough to do it any good, so why bother. All you will do is possiblly increase the condensation levels.

 

Paul

[ditchcrawler]

A couple of hours is better than one and four hours better than two IME

 

The OP was saying he could run the engine for an hour and I don't think that will be long enough to do it any good, so why bother. All you will do is possiblly increase the condensation levels.

 

Paul

When I was at work we only ran engines if we could put them on load and bring them up to full working temperature

[Yoda]

All of the skin cooled engines should have a thermostat to control the temperature. So I expect the engine to reach its running temp and the thermostat to open and close to control the water temperature until, fully open.

 

It doesn't get hotter than that.

[RLWP]

All of the skin cooled engines should have a thermostat to control the temperature. So I expect the engine to reach its running temp and the thermostat to open and close to control the water temperature until, fully open.

 

It doesn't get hotter than that.

 

 

This is only true if the water coming back from the skin tank is cooler than the water leaving the thermostat. If the cooling system isn't sufficient to drop the temperature then it will only get hotter and hotter. If you think about it this must be true, otherwise all boats would only have tiny swim tanks and never overheat.

 

Richard

 

I wouldn't run the engine either. An hour isn't long enough to be of any use in properly charging the domestic batteries

[boots]

Thanks for everyone's comments,

 

Will probably leave starting her until she is back in the water, though will be taking every opportunity to get some charge into the batteries. Agree taking them home would be the best option, but they are not that accessible, so am trying to see how best to charge them in-situ.

 

Just out of interest - other than a temp. guage (which we don't seem to have and can't recall if there is a warning light), are there any obvious signs of over-heating?

 

thanks everyone,

 

Boots