Canal network

[bag 'o' bones]

Quick question and one that a lot of historains don't seem to agree on

 

 

How many miles of waterway were in use at the peak of 'Canal Mania'

 

and

 

How many miles of navigable canals are there today connected to the main system?

 

Need the info as part of an introduction to short documentary i'm writing.

 

Thanks in advance.

[magpie patrick]

Quick question and one that a lot of historains don't seem to agree on

 

 

How many miles of waterway were in use at the peak of 'Canal Mania'

 

and

 

How many miles of navigable canals are there today connected to the main system?

 

Need the info as part of an introduction to short documentary i'm writing.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

how accurate do you want it?

 

peak, about about 3,000 miles of canals in a system totalling about 4,500 miles of "inland" waterway (including tidal and naturally navigable rivers, and rivers made navigable by artificial works). peaked in 1840s

 

now about 1600 miles of canal in a system totalling about 3,400 miles, defined as above

 

historians vary because their definitions vary, what was or was not connected, total open at one time or total ever opened (some canals had closed by the 1840's, some had yet to open). Some only define total, not total connected.

 

Unless you wish to leaf through the appendices of Hadfield's regional canals series, and get to work with a spreadsheet, you won't get a more accurate answer

[bag 'o' bones]

how accurate do you want it?

 

peak, about about 3,000 miles of canals in a system totalling about 4,500 miles of "inland" waterway (including tidal and naturally navigable rivers, and rivers made navigable by artificial works). peaked in 1840s

 

now about 1600 miles of canal in a system totalling about 3,400 miles, defined as above

 

historians vary because their definitions vary, what was or was not connected, total open at one time or total ever opened (some canals had closed by the 1840's, some had yet to open). Some only define total, not total connected.

 

Unless you wish to leaf through the appendices of Hadfield's regional canals series, and get to work with a spreadsheet, you won't get a more accurate answer

 

Marvellous thanks for the info. Pretty much the same conclusion I had come to. Not looking for an nth degree calculation but more of an acceptable 'educated' estimation if you get my drift.

[Pluto]

Quick question and one that a lot of historains don't seem to agree on

 

 

How many miles of waterway were in use at the peak of 'Canal Mania'

 

and

 

How many miles of navigable canals are there today connected to the main system?

 

Need the info as part of an introduction to short documentary i'm writing.

 

Thanks in advance.

I can send you a pdf with the changes in length of navigable waterway from 1699 at ten year intervals, including planned restorations to 2039, which I did for BW some years ago. It also compares length used for goods compared to length used for leisure.

[Pluto]

I can send you a pdf with the changes in length of navigable waterway from 1699 at ten year intervals, including planned restorations to 2039, which I did for BW some years ago. It also compares length used for goods compared to length used for leisure.

For those interested, I have put the list on my website at http://www.mikeclarke.myzen.co.uk/Totalwaterwaymileage.pdf

[Keeping Up]

For those interested, I have put the list on my website at http://www.mikeclarke.myzen.co.uk/Totalwaterwaymileage.pdf

Fascinating figures there, thanks for publishing them.

 

The spreadsheet would be a little easier to read if you rounded all the numbers to the nearest mile.

 

Just as an idle thought, people make comments about certain canals being busier now than they were in their heyday. It would be interesting to see some comparative figures for numbers of boats, distances travelled, lock movements etc - but the information would perhaps be rather more difficult to come by.

[Derek R.]

For those interested, I have put the list on my website at http://www.mikeclarke.myzen.co.uk/Totalwaterwaymileage.pdf

 

Thanks Mike, but I fancy it's a tip of the iceberg. Can you explain how the mileages are arrived at, and what canals are included in the 'restored' column? An explanation to the column headings would be welcomed, though I understand this may be more than you are willing to share if it's copyrighted.

 

Derek

[Pluto]

Thanks Mike, but I fancy it's a tip of the iceberg. Can you explain how the mileages are arrived at, and what canals are included in the 'restored' column? An explanation to the column headings would be welcomed, though I understand this may be more than you are willing to share if it's copyrighted.

 

Derek

The mileages came from a variety of sources, mainly government figures c1880 which were compiled because of the Railway and Canal Act around that time. The canal group of the Panel for Historic Engineering Works at the Institution of Civil Engineers had also compiled a useful list of canal details, and I had produced the background details of all English and Welsh canals for the Virtualwaterways website, such as the official name of each canal, and had thus looked at most canal Acts, though they don't give specific details such as length. Restored and proposed restoration lengths came from lists provided by BW and the IWA, with possible opening dates.

 

The reason for compiling the figures was, if possible, to show that BW's marketing claim that more miles of canal were being reopened around 2000 than opened during the Canal Mania, was accurate. You can make your own judgement! I also tried to show the change from canals being used for transport to leisure use, which accounts for the various headings. If a canal's tonnage carried became insignificant, and it remained open, I considered that it was then in use mainly for leisure.

 

With regard to usage and boat numbers, it is a bit more difficult to make comparisons. I do have detailed figures for the L&LC, from which I found that traffic over the summit level is about the same today, in terms of boat numbers, as in the canal's heyday. Today's figures are from around six months operation, so there are more boats passing over the summit than before, which means water usage could be greater. However, boat numbers on the lower sections are much fewer, possibly by a factor of twenty, and water would still have had to be passed down the canal from the summit to serve the lower sections, so less is required for boats - and more for leakage etc given the poor condition the canal is now in.

 

It is interesting to consider how many boats can operate on a canal. I have a friend in Germany who worked as an engineer for the waterway authority in Berlin. He was initially skeptical when I told him that canals in the north of France had carried 7 million tons a year, as not only would water supply be a problem, but also the time for boats to pass locks would have restricted usage. It was only after sitting down and working through the possibilities that we calculated that 7 million tons was about the maximum possible on a conventional French canal with double locks with boats carrying circa 300 tons. Even today, tonnages on true canals are limited, with few approaching 7 million tons annually. It is only on rivers where extremely large locks are possible that tonnages can be increased materially.

[PeterScott]

For those interested, I have put the list on my website at http://www.mikeclarke.myzen.co.uk/Totalwaterwaymileage.pdf

Thanks, that's really useful for giving the rise and fall (and rise) of the system.

 

Now, how about some columns for the numbers of LOCKS :-)

 

That seems to be a HARD question, even to just count them today, in working order. Definitions needed: how about: flood GATES=0, but flood LOCK=1(even if usually open); similarly WarwickBar=1(even though ornamental), King'sNortonStop=0 (not operational), Bingley5rise=5, Hillmorton=6(in total), etc.

 

Any bids?

[Derek R.]

Thanks, that's really useful for giving the rise and fall (and rise) of the system.

 

Now, how about some columns for the numbers of LOCKS :-)

 

That seems to be a HARD question, even to just count them today, in working order. Definitions needed: how about: flood GATES=0, but flood LOCK=1(even if usually open); similarly WarwickBar=1(even though ornamental), King'sNortonStop=0 (not operational), Bingley5rise=5, Hillmorton=6(in total), etc.

 

Any bids?

 

Just grab yourself an urn of Tea, pick up a set of Nicholson's Ordnance Survey Guide to the Waterways, and start counting. Each canal listed has the mileage and number of locks on the first page to each canal, some are flood locks, but I believe they are still counted. Or you could choose the Shell Book of Inland Waterways, or Charles Hadfield's Canals of Great Britain.

 

In twenty minutes I have come up with 1,080, not including Teddington, Wey & Arun, River Wey, nor the Basingstoke. All from Nicholson's three, plus their one on the Thames.

 

If you wish to include locks into docks, there will be more.

 

Derek

[magpie patrick]

In twenty minutes I have come up with 1,080, not including Teddington, Wey & Arun, River Wey, nor the Basingstoke. All from Nicholson's three, plus their one on the Thames.

 

 

I think that might be a bit low but haven't got time to count. Jim Shead has 1600, i've been through rather over 800 different locks and except for the Trent haven't really navigated the eastern half of the network or the L and L. The rough estimates before restoration mania were always 2500 miles. 1500 locks

[MartinClark]

I think that might be a bit low but haven't got time to count.

 

Quite. Just taking the number of locks shown in Nicholsons does not take account of duplicated locks. Peter's examples (above) give 6 locks at Hillmorton, whereas Nicholsons says 4 locks for the whole North Oxford.

It might be difficult to know how to count with the Trent and Mersey locks around Heartbreak Hill, where some duplicated locks are functional while others are still there but not operable (and others have been removed).

[Keeping Up]

There is some logic to the suggestion that on every staircase you should only count every alternate lock.

[Pluto]

Thanks, that's really useful for giving the rise and fall (and rise) of the system.

 

Now, how about some columns for the numbers of LOCKS :-)

I have put a further pdf at http://www.mikeclarke.myzen.co.uk/length%20and%20locks.pdf which gives the date for the canal/navigation Act, date of opening, length, number of locks (which could change over time), date of closure for commercial use, date for change to leisure use, and length closed completely. This table is based on the details provided by the Panel for Historic Engineering Works of the Institution for Civil Engineers, and updated by myself.

[Derek R.]

I have put a further pdf at http://www.mikeclarke.myzen.co.uk/length%20and%20locks.pdf which gives the date for the canal/navigation Act, date of opening, length, number of locks (which could change over time), date of closure for commercial use, date for change to leisure use, and length closed completely. This table is based on the details provided by the Panel for Historic Engineering Works of the Institution for Civil Engineers, and updated by myself.

 

Blimey! I counted 3,085 from that list give or take a finger.

[magpie patrick]

Quite. Just taking the number of locks shown in Nicholsons does not take account of duplicated locks. Peter's examples (above) give 6 locks at Hillmorton, whereas Nicholsons says 4 locks for the whole North Oxford.

It might be difficult to know how to count with the Trent and Mersey locks around Heartbreak Hill, where some duplicated locks are functional while others are still there but not operable (and others have been removed).

 

True, but I don't think that would add 500 plus locks to the current figure. I think there were 24 duplicates on the T and M, 3 on the Oxford, and now only one on the regents canal, and probably two dozen more in total on the Lee, Thames, GU, Severn, Yorkshire waterways at most.

 

I must admit in my figures I don't count doubles, I've no idea whether I've "done" all six at Hillmorton, although I've done the flight three times

[RLWP]

There is some logic to the suggestion that on every staircase you should only count every alternate lock.

 

Bascote staircase has only two chambers. How many locks is that then? One and a half?

 

Richar

[Tim Lewis]

Quick question and one that a lot of historains don't seem to agree on

 

 

How many miles of waterway were in use at the peak of 'Canal Mania'

 

and

 

How many miles of navigable canals are there today connected to the main system?

 

Need the info as part of an introduction to short documentary i'm writing.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

As a matter of interest the late Mike Stevens drew a series of maps to illustrate the growth and decay of the canals and river navigations of England and Wales which you might find useful, they are at:

 

http://www.canalmuseum.org.uk/history/maps.htm

 

Tim

[mayalld]

True, but I don't think that would add 500 plus locks to the current figure. I think there were 24 duplicates on the T and M, 3 on the Oxford, and now only one on the regents canal, and probably two dozen more in total on the Lee, Thames, GU, Severn, Yorkshire waterways at most.

 

2 duplicates on the Ashton...

[magpie patrick]

2 duplicates on the Ashton...

 

 

That's right, I'd forgotten those (although not sure they work, only been that way once) the top two I think. The Oxford were, I think, the only company that counted duplicates as two locks in it's numbering system, although I'm unclear how the numbering at Stourport works as the wide locks are numbered 1 and 2 and York Street 3, yet you go through four narrow locks to get to York street. Appley on the L and L had a similar numeric problem as there was one deep and two shallow locks. I have been through the shallow ones as well

[fender]

Its difficult to suggest exact numbers of total canal mileage built. Recent theories indicate that canal building was very active long before the 18th century and more and more waterways are being discovered and recorded that were built pre 'canal era' - mileage estimates will be dependent on whether waterways from 1759 (Bridgewater) are counted (the 'canal era') or the many waterways from previous centuries are also included

[mayalld]

That's right, I'd forgotten those (although not sure they work, only been that way once) the top two I think. The Oxford were, I think, the only company that counted duplicates as two locks in it's numbering system, although I'm unclear how the numbering at Stourport works as the wide locks are numbered 1 and 2 and York Street 3, yet you go through four narrow locks to get to York street. Appley on the L and L had a similar numeric problem as there was one deep and two shallow locks. I have been through the shallow ones as well

 

The Ashton locks are no longer gated, and the lower of the two is all but invisible.

[Richard Fairhurst]

The bottom lock of the Ashton was duplicated, too (and maybe the bottom but one? Not sure).

[mayalld]

The bottom lock of the Ashton was duplicated, too (and maybe the bottom but one? Not sure).

 

No sign of the duplicates now.

[billh]

No sign of the duplicates now.

'course there is. Ancoats bottom lock 1 , the bye wash flows down the concreted lock chamber . It is very obvious from both ends that there was a lock there. the others at 17 & 18 , the disused lock chambers are still intact and not filled in. The disused 18 lock even got new ground paddles a couple of years ago. Some folk thought the locks were to be re-opened but it was only for water control. The duplication of locks was apparently started in the 1830's just before "them damned railroads" came to the fore. The Ashton New Warehouse at Portland Basin was also built at the same time. the "old" warehouse was at Whitelands Road, the original terminus of the Ashton Canal.

if you really want a heated discussion; how about which Ashton locks (& why) have mitred head gates ( a la Bosley). For information- 1, 2 & 18- nothing to do with the fact they were duplicated - doubt if 2 ever was and 17 ( which was duplicated) has a single head gate.........

Bill