Mooring wardens

[Jim and Paula]

Are mooring wardens a good thing?

 

We stopped at the Rickmansworth 14 day visitor moorings recently, leaving 3 weeks ago tomorrow to head north. We have since turned around and are now heading back south again. We walked into Rickmansworth yesterday to see what the mooring situation looks like and found that a number of boats currently moored there have been there for well over 3 weeks. We know for a fact that two have been there for over 5 weeks and one for months.

 

Chatting to one of the overstaying boaters, he told us that he worked in the area and would stay on the moorings until he was forced to leave them. He also confirmed that the boats referred to above have not moved since we left. He himself has now been there for well over 5 weeks.

 

So, we can only conclude that the popular Rickmansworth visitor moorings are ‘fair game’ to anyone wanting to stay well past the allotted time.

 

Contrast the above to (say) Little Venice that has a full time mooring warden. The warden at Little Venice checks every boat every day and encourages those over staying to move on. It doesn’t make finding a mooring at Little Venice any easier but it does give you a sense of ‘fair play’ when you arrive there and the place full.

 

Personally, I would be happy to see permanent mooring wardens installed at all of the popular visitor moorings throughout the country. Perhaps it is an option for BW to get their job done for them at minimal cost to themselves and therefore the boater.

[Guest]

I agree it does seem unfair that people are flouting the rules in this way - If I've paid £1500 to hire a boat for a couple of weeks and then get to the popular spots and couldn't get in I'd be well hacked off if precluded by such types.

 

I guess the problem is the cost of employing the wardens - no doubt BW would argue they cost money - who pays for that - would everybody be prepared to pay an additional cost on their licence?? for BW to provide more.

Edited September 27, 2009 by MJG

[Phil Ambrose]

Are mooring wardens a good thing?

 

We stopped at the Rickmansworth 14 day visitor moorings recently, leaving 3 weeks ago tomorrow to head north. We have since turned around and are now heading back south again. We walked into Rickmansworth yesterday to see what the mooring situation looks like and found that a number of boats currently moored there have been there for well over 3 weeks. We know for a fact that two have been there for over 5 weeks and one for months.

 

Chatting to one of the overstaying boaters, he told us that he worked in the area and would stay on the moorings until he was forced to leave them. He also confirmed that the boats referred to above have not moved since we left. He himself has now been there for well over 5 weeks.

 

So, we can only conclude that the popular Rickmansworth visitor moorings are ‘fair game’ to anyone wanting to stay well past the allotted time.

 

Contrast the above to (say) Little Venice that has a full time mooring warden. The warden at Little Venice checks every boat every day and encourages those over staying to move on. It doesn’t make finding a mooring at Little Venice any easier but it does give you a sense of ‘fair play’ when you arrive there and the place full.

 

Personally, I would be happy to see permanent mooring wardens installed at all of the popular visitor moorings throughout the country. Perhaps it is an option for BW to get their job done for them at minimal cost to themselves and therefore the boater.

 

Always an interesting topic, here on The Broads we have navigation rangers who rigourously enforce the by-laws including overstaying moorings. I know the canal system is a totally different thing but all things are possible if there is a need.

 

Phil

[Jim and Paula]

I agree it does seem unfair that people are flouting the rules in this way - If I've paid £1500 to hire a boat for a couple of weeks and then get to the popular spots and couldn't get in I'd be well hacked off if precluded by such types.

 

I guess the problem is the cost of employing the wardens - no doubt BW would argue they cost money - who pays for that - would everybody be prepared to pay an additional cost on their licence?? for BW to provide more.

I can only speak for the mooring warden at Little Venice. He actually pays BW to be there but gets a reduced rate on his annual mooring fee for doing the warden role. In effect BW actually make money out of him through his mooring fees – the only long term mooring on the tow path stretch at Little Venice.

 

BW could provide 1 long term mooring for a mooring warden at each ‘popular’ visitor mooring site.

[Phil Ambrose]

I can only speak for the mooring warden at Little Venice. He actually pays BW to be there but gets a reduced rate on his annual mooring fee for doing the warden role. In effect BW actually make money out of him through his mooring fees – the only long term mooring on the tow path stretch at Little Venice.

 

BW could provide 1 long term mooring for a mooring warden at each ‘popular’ visitor mooring site.

 

Yeah that would work.

[County4x4]

Half the trouble is that there will always be a minority of people who think the regulations just apply to others. We've had a guy in a cruiser on seven day moorings locally, who actually made a point of stopping us to say he was going to be staying for five weeks, and that "we could put tickets on his boat if we liked as he'd just ignore them" I know the enforcement officer has spoken to him a number of times, but it seems that frustrating as it is, there is only so much he can do.

 

I've told the boater in question that we've been getting complaints from other boats about him being there for so long, and apparently nothing being done, and he seems oblivious to this as well. He's even asked us not to record his number when checking the visitor moorings as if he deserves some special treatment! There was talk about levying a charge for each night overstayed, and making payment obligatory come licence renewal time, but whether this has happened I couldn't say.

 

From my experience in this area, BW can be quite accomodating in genuine cases - we've had people with hospital appointments and so on, and there hasn't been a problem at all, but for people like this guy, who state quite openly that they have no intention of sticking to the limits - I personally feel like they could do with bigger teeth, and be much less hamstrung by procedure in applying them.

 

Andy

[Guest]

Half the trouble is that there will always be a minority of people who think the regulations just apply to others. We've had a guy in a cruiser on seven day moorings locally, who actually made a point of stopping us to say he was going to be staying for five weeks, and that "we could put tickets on his boat if we liked as he'd just ignore them" I know the enforcement officer has spoken to him a number of times, but it seems that frustrating as it is, there is only so much he can do.

 

I've told the boater in question that we've been getting complaints from other boats about him being there for so long, and apparently nothing being done, and he seems oblivious to this as well. He's even asked us not to record his number when checking the visitor moorings as if he deserves some special treatment! There was talk about levying a charge for each night overstayed, and making payment obligatory come licence renewal time, but whether this has happened I couldn't say.

 

From my experience in this area, BW can be quite accomodating in genuine cases - we've had people with hospital appointments and so on, and there hasn't been a problem at all, but for people like this guy, who state quite openly that they have no intention of sticking to the limits - I personally feel like they could do with bigger teeth, and be much less hamstrung by procedure in applying them.

 

Andy

Have totally sympathy for people with genuine problems, ill health and hospital appointments and the like but this guy is taking the mick,

[David Schweizer]

BW used to have quite a few "unpaid" mooring Wardens , who performed their duties in returmn for a reduced residential mooring fee, but most seem to have dissapeared over the past few years. The Wardens had no real power, but did have direct access to the full time Patrol Officers, who could be contacted for official action, if someone overstayed, and did not respond to gentle persuasion.

 

I understand that part of the problem was that some of the Wardens were subjected to agressive verbal (and sometimes) physical attacks, consequently new volunteers have been more difficult to recruit. Having said that, I know of one on the South Oxford, who has been doing the job for years, and as far as I know, she has never been threatened.

Edited September 27, 2009 by David Schweizer

[furnessvale]

Half the trouble is that there will always be a minority of people who think the regulations just apply to others. We've had a guy in a cruiser on seven day moorings locally, who actually made a point of stopping us to say he was going to be staying for five weeks, .....................

 

When you say cruiser do you mean plastic? In my experience they creak quite a lot when you breast up to them overnight because there is nowhere else to moor:-) But they do make good fenders.

 

George ex nb Alton retired (but now tug Sandbach, out of retirement!)

[rgreg]

If these boats were cars in our cities they would be fined - if BW had similar powers this would fund the wardens!.

[koukouvagia]

... it is an option for BW to get their job done for them at minimal cost to themselves and therefore the boater.

 

Minimal cost. This isn’t how BW sees mooring wardens. They see them as clogging up valuable mooring sites which could bring in much more money if they were put out to tender.

For donkeys’ years we’ve had a mooring warden doing the sort of useful work that the mooring warden at Little Venice does. Not only did she keep boats moving, but also acted as the eyes and ears for BW in case there were any problems – anything from leaking paddles to dead foxes in the cut. She'd also keep an eye on your boat if you had to leave it. All agreed that she did an excellent job, was never officious and was a genuine asset to the waterways. When she left she was replaced by a couple who were also friendly and good at their job.

BW then realised that the wardens’ boat was occupying a mooring in a prime site and was deriving no income from it because they had a free mooring in return for their warden duties. Consequently BW abruptly terminated their agreement and asked them to move off the mooring. Locally we caused quite a stink and eventually BW agreed to let the couple stay as ordinary boaters and asking them to pay the full mooring fee.

When tackled about this surreptitious change of policy whereby mooring wardens are being phased out, BW will tell you that instead they have their new uniformed Licence Checkers, complete with epaulettes and hand held computers.

In our neck of the woods we now have Licence Checkers who certainly do not know local conditions and are only interested in chasing licence evaders. They don’t care about overstayers and don’t see it as part of their job to be a friendly point of contact for boaters.

Incidently, the Licence Checkers are not even very good at checking licences. A few months ago one was about to put a section 8 notice on the wrong boat on our mooring that just happened to have the same name as the one that they were really after.

Edited September 27, 2009 by koukouvagia

[County4x4]

There has been talk of employing licence checkers up here, but nothing actually advertised yet. As my seasonal contract with BW ends this coming Friday, I'll certainly be keeping an eye out for any possibilities of full time employment, as being out of work certainly didn't suit me the last, and only time I've ever been subjected to it!

 

I guess it's different in different areas and with different people, but I reckon we'll be missed round here once we're given our marching orders. One boater stopped us last week to say he'd been writing to HQ to express his displeasure at us being got rid of! I'd certainly like to think the boaters saw us as being on their side and trying to look after them as best we could given our limited "clout" - we've certainly made a lot of good friends over the season anyway.

 

Certainly there has never been a problem up here with genuine reasons for overstaying - boaters have either spoken to us or to Wigan and explained what's going on, and then we've crossed them off our list so to speak. I just think it makes the whole situation so much easier and nicer if there's a bit of give and take rather than just following the letter of the law so to speak and coming across "all traffic warden" with people. And of course, in the great majority of cases, if you're nice to people, they'll be nice in return.

 

Having said all that - if anyone has a job going for a good guy anywhere in the Lancaster area - shout up!

 

Cheers all,

 

Andy

[LEO]

BW do seem to be getting rid of Mooring Wardens - claiming boat checkers are much more cost effective.

 

Our local Wardens have done a good job over the years and as KK states have been - 'dismissed'.

 

Really the problem is with BW who have no real power or the resources to deal with overstayers.

 

It seems to be a regional thing, a friend overstayed on a 14 day mooring on the Shroppie for a few days and BW ticketed his boat and phoned him in the evening asking when he was going to move it.

 

Liveaboards clog moorings up as well, especially at popular spots - shame as this is reflective of the cost of and availability of suitable shore based housing.

 

It's amazing how quickly the Towpath telegraph alerts moorers as to the fact there is no longer a mooring warden in a particular spot or whether a Boat Checker is about.

 

No doubt the situation will improve when all the new canalside marinas are finished.

 

Leo

[Lady Muck]

We came through Ricky yesterday and shared the Tesco moorings with two full length community narrowboats. They wanted to give the kids their lunch, but it was so busy there was nowhere else to moor. I needed to go to the tip and also to Tesco, but it was completely full, everywhere else so we hogged the Tesco moorings longer than we'd have liked.

 

We're now moored at Springwell, near the sewage works, it's nowhere near as busy. Maybe 8 boats?

 

Cassiobury Park was very quiet too, much more so than usual, I'm guessing that they all got ticketed and moved to Ricky.

 

No doubt the situation will improve when all the new canalside marinas are finished

I doubt it'll improve things in London, I've heard the new one on the Stort is going to allow only a handful of liveaboards.

 

Really the problem is with BW who have no real power or the resources to deal with overstayers

This is true, how can you police it or fine anyone if you've no idea how long they've been there because you couldn't send someone to check. The mess made of enforcement on the K & A (ticketing everyone regardless), isn't helping either, just causes bad feeling.

 

They're getting rid of enforcement officers too, when BW restructures into the new areas, there'll be less enforcement officers than there were before.

 

So can't see things changing. Have aready noticed a big increase in moored boats since we left in the Spring and we've not got to Uxbridge yet!

Edited September 28, 2009 by Lady Muck

[pugwash61]

Are mooring wardens a good thing?

 

We stopped at the Rickmansworth 14 day visitor moorings recently, leaving 3 weeks ago tomorrow to head north. We have since turned around and are now heading back south again. We walked into Rickmansworth yesterday to see what the mooring situation looks like and found that a number of boats currently moored there have been there for well over 3 weeks. We know for a fact that two have been there for over 5 weeks and one for months.

 

 

Can I just stick my oar in here, as I seem to be in in the thick of it.

I'm currently moored at Rickmansworth, just opposite Tesco's, outside the Aquadrome complex on the tow path. But unlike 90% of the other boats moored here, I'm displaying an £800 winter mooring permit which entitles me to do so. But it really does make my blood boil when I come back from the water point, that some other has moved into the space I vacated only 20 minuets earlier & that it was the only space available & I'D BLOODY PAID FOR IT !!! This leaves only Tesco's frontage to moor against, whilst I wait for my chance to pounce, should somebody else go for water. Why am I paying for my license & mooring permit whilst others here seem to just get away with it?

To top it all, I received a stroppy letter from B/W in June this year, informing me that I had overstayed last years mooring & quoting enforcement at me. After sending an equally stroppy E-mail back that I had in fact moved some ten weeks earlier, B/W stated that they must have made a small error & that it must have been another Victoria, that had over stayed. They went on to say that I had to understand that there is more than one narrow boat on the system called Victoria. My reply was, "yes, but only one with the index number they had quoted".

Anyway, this leads me to believe, that B/W are not doing the job of checking properly & that the only reason they wrote to me was because they had a record of me actually being there & just assumed I was still there, overstaying. I come to this conclusion as no other boater along this stretch (including the one's that were still there, overstaying), received any letter as I did.

[Jim and Paula]

Are mooring wardens a good thing?

Can I just stick my oar in here, as I seem to be in in the thick of it.

I'm currently moored at Rickmansworth, just opposite Tesco's, outside the Aquadrome complex on the tow path. But unlike 90% of the other boats moored here, I'm displaying an £800 winter mooring permit which entitles me to do so. But it really does make my blood boil when I come back from the water point, that some other has moved into the space I vacated only 20 minuets earlier & that it was the only space available & I'D BLOODY PAID FOR IT !!! This leaves only Tesco's frontage to moor against, whilst I wait for my chance to pounce, should somebody else go for water. Why am I paying for my license & mooring permit whilst others here seem to just get away with it?

To top it all, I received a stroppy letter from B/W in June this year, informing me that I had overstayed last years mooring & quoting enforcement at me. After sending an equally stroppy E-mail back that I had in fact moved some ten weeks earlier, B/W stated that they must have made a small error & that it must have been another Victoria, that had over stayed. They went on to say that I had to understand that there is more than one narrow boat on the system called Victoria. My reply was, "yes, but only one with the index number they had quoted".

Anyway, this leads me to believe, that B/W are not doing the job of checking properly & that the only reason they wrote to me was because they had a record of me actually being there & just assumed I was still there, overstaying. I come to this conclusion as no other boater along this stretch (including the one's that were still there, overstaying), received any letter as I did.

Hello Pugwash61,

 

Having paid BW for winter moorings in the past, I fully understand your frustration.

 

When we had our winter mooring, we put up signs on the tow path with our boat name indicating that the length of tow path was a paid for BW winter mooring. It worked for us as the mooring was in a not too popular spot. BW did point out to us though that the winter mooring did not entitle us to any particular fixed length of the visitor’s mooring and that there was nothing we could do if another boat decided to ignore the signs and moor there.

 

It might be worth your while making up some signs and hoping that others respect the fact that you have paid for a winter mooring.

 

Good luck.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Jim and Paula

[Jim and Paula]

Can I just stick my oar in here, as I seem to be in in the thick of it.

I'm currently moored at Rickmansworth, just opposite Tesco's, outside the Aquadrome complex on the tow path. But unlike 90% of the other boats moored here, I'm displaying an £800 winter mooring permit which entitles me to do so. But it really does make my blood boil when I come back from the water point, that some other has moved into the space I vacated only 20 minuets earlier & that it was the only space available & I'D BLOODY PAID FOR IT !!!

Just a quick question on the subject of winter moorings, when do they start these days? I thought they ran from the 1st of October to end of March? Has it changed?

[Guest]

Just a quick question on the subject of winter moorings, when do they start these days? I thought they ran from the 1st of October to end of March? Has it changed?

 

Hi Jim & Paula - you might want to start a new thread as any potential 'answerers' may miss your question.

[US Marines]

I have a problem with the current mooring regulations. As I like to cruise the system rather than just my local canal, I "continuously cruise" around the country. I am not a liveaboard and have other commitments that mean that I cannot always move the boat within a two week period. My situation is not catered for by the current rules. I propose two alternative legislation changes that may provide a solution.

1. Areas that are not "popular" desirable moorings should have a longer time period for mooring. After all, why does it matter if my boat is at point A for four weeks as opposed to point A for two weeks and point B for two weeks? Those areas considered desirable should then be monitored more rigourously with fines for overstaying applied. (this doesn't need to cost more as the wardens could spend more of their time targeting the premium mooring areas and much less frequently cover the rest of their area)

 

2. Another category of licence in addition to "continuous cruising" could be available allowing a boat to moor for longer than two weeks in unmarked areas (i.e. not signed as 24 hour, 7 day, 14 day etc. moorings) for an additional payment. A sort of "mobile mooring permit".

 

Without such a change to the regulations, if I wish to explore the system, I am resigned to occasionally breaking the rules. I suspect that I am not alone.

[pugwash61]

Just a quick question on the subject of winter moorings, when do they start these days? I thought they ran from the 1st of October to end of March? Has it changed?

 

 

Evening Jim & Paula.

You are quite correct, the winter moorings do still run from the beginning of October till the end of March. I was referring to my experience of winter mooring here in the past, in my original post. I have now made up a lamminated sign on a wooden stake that I hammer into the tow path, when I take off for water. I havn't tried it on a longer run, for a pump-out or diesel yet, as the nearest boatyard is 3 locks up the canal, at Croxley & takes about 3 hrs to do the return trip. Watch this space to see how I get on.

[mayalld]

I have a problem with the current mooring regulations. As I like to cruise the system rather than just my local canal, I "continuously cruise" around the country. I am not a liveaboard and have other commitments that mean that I cannot always move the boat within a two week period. My situation is not catered for by the current rules. I propose two alternative legislation changes that may provide a solution.

1. Areas that are not "popular" desirable moorings should have a longer time period for mooring. After all, why does it matter if my boat is at point A for four weeks as opposed to point A for two weeks and point B for two weeks? Those areas considered desirable should then be monitored more rigourously with fines for overstaying applied. (this doesn't need to cost more as the wardens could spend more of their time targeting the premium mooring areas and much less frequently cover the rest of their area)

 

2. Another category of licence in addition to "continuous cruising" could be available allowing a boat to moor for longer than two weeks in unmarked areas (i.e. not signed as 24 hour, 7 day, 14 day etc. moorings) for an additional payment. A sort of "mobile mooring permit".

 

Without such a change to the regulations, if I wish to explore the system, I am resigned to occasionally breaking the rules. I suspect that I am not alone.

 

It is interesting that you seem to feel that your breaking the law is the fault of the law for not catering for your particular circumstances.

 

There is a simple solution to your problem. If you need to leave the boat for more than 14 days, seek out a marina and pay for a short term berth.

[Naughty Cal]

It is interesting that you seem to feel that your breaking the law is the fault of the law for not catering for your particular circumstances.

 

There is a simple solution to your problem. If you need to leave the boat for more than 14 days, seek out a marina and pay for a short term berth.

 

This hurts to say this, but i have to agree with Dave.

 

The 14 day rule is there for the benefit of all and if your circumstances say that you can not abide by that rule then you can not genuinely CC and should seek out short term moorings in areas where you will have to leave the boat longer than 14 days.

[Lady Muck]

Evening Jim & Paula.

You are quite correct, the winter moorings do still run from the beginning of October till the end of March. I was referring to my experience of winter mooring here in the past, in my original post. I have now made up a lamminated sign on a wooden stake that I hammer into the tow path, when I take off for water. I havn't tried it on a longer run, for a pump-out or diesel yet, as the nearest boatyard is 3 locks up the canal, at Croxley & takes about 3 hrs to do the return trip. Watch this space to see how I get on.

 

I reckon you should nick some of those huge floating buoys that are a bit further South on the offiside, you know those big orange things that say 'no mooring?' That'll do it, I think.

[Chris Pink]

It is interesting that you seem to feel that your breaking the law is the fault of the law for not catering for your particular circumstances.

 

Yes it is interesting. It is also a legitimate use of the canals in my opinion. Everyday life is full of places where the law has missed the obvious. As Mr Marine says it makes not one whit of difference whether his boat is on 14 day mooring A for 14 days then 14 mooring B for 14 days or on mooring A for 28 days, not one whit.

 

It is simply that you, as a continuous moorer, do not need this facility that leads you to adopt such a pompous stance.

 

I would say that Mr Marine is entitled to use the canal in this way through the simple application of common sense - 'criminalising' actions that do no harm to anyone is not what management of the waterways is about.

 

and don't forget, DavePhylis or PhyliDavis, those little, oft forgot, words, "as is reasonable in the circumstances".

 

I am a reasonable man and Mr Marine's actions to me seem eminently reasonable.

[Naughty Cal]

However using those words "as is reasonable in the circumstances" opens the door to those floating the rules for their own gain. How do you define as is reasonable in the circumstances. Is it reasonable for me to leave my boat for 28 days in the local village because i cant be bothered to move it every 72 hours as the BW sign suggests.

 

And i do dislike being call a Continuous Moorer. A Continuos Moorer is one who openly floats the guidance for Continuous Cruising.