Warning to other dog owners!!!! (Erdington canal)

[Sir Nibble]

Surely by asking why stort_mark was not suggesting that the behaviour is acceptable? Understanding why things/animals/objects/people behave in a particular manner is a good thing.

Totally agree, my point is that "why" should inform a strategy for prevention and not continue to be an excuse for the unacceptable.

My own bottom line is that if the animal can be prevented from being a disturbance to people then that prevention should be mandatory. If it cannot, then the animal must go. People must ALWAYS take precedence over animals.

[carlt]

I hope I read that correctly in that you kick dogs if they are being a pain, not simply approaching you and your dog?

If a dog approaches mine and it is not under control, by its owner then I will assume the worst and remove it from harms way.

 

Usually this means just fending it off, until the owner manages to get it under control but, if that isn't sufficient then I will use whatever means necessary, including kicking it into the cut.

[Matthew Knowles]

If a dog approaches mine and it is not under control, by its owner then I will assume the worst and remove it from harms way.

 

Usually this means just fending it off, until the owner manages to get it under control but, if that isn't sufficient then I will use whatever means necessary, including kicking it into the cut.

 

Wonderful! I don't particularly like small children and some small children annoy me and my dog. So, by the same token, if they are not under control by their parents I am at liberty to beat the crap out of them and throw them in the canal! Result!

[carlt]

Wonderful! I don't particularly like small children and some small children annoy me and my dog. So, by the same token, if they are not under control by their parents I am at liberty to beat the crap out of them and throw them in the canal! Result!

Is your child likely to bite my child's leg off, if I let it near mine?

 

That is what happened to my dog when I gave an, outwardly friendly, dog the benefit of the doubt.

 

I now have a three legged lurcher because some moron did not have their dog, on a lead, on the tow path.

 

And yes I got the "My dog's never done anything like this before, he's perfectly friendly!" crap, too.

 

If someone's dog approaches me, when it is not under the control of its owner, then I will remove it from harm's way.

Edited June 19, 2009 by carlt

[Matthew Knowles]

Is your child likely to bite my child's leg off, if I let it near mine?

 

That is what happened to my dog when I gave an, outwardly friendly, dog the benefit of the doubt.

 

I now have a three legged lurcher because some moron did not have their dog, on a lead, on the tow path.

 

And yes I got the "My dog's never done anything like this before, he's perfectly friendly!" crap, too.

 

If someone's dog approaches me, when it is not under the control of its owner, then I will remove it from harm's way.

 

Cows in a field can be very hazardous to dogs and owners alike (as several news reports have attested). Do you like to beat up cows also or is your fetish limited to furry animals smaller than yourself?

[carlt]

Cows in a field can be very hazardous to dogs and owners alike (as several news reports have attested). Do you like to beat up cows also or is your fetish limited to furry animals smaller than yourself?

In all my life I have never injured a dog or any other animal, intentionally, except mosquitoes and the odd horsefly.

 

A cow has never approached me close enough to threaten me but clapping the hands usually suffices to deter them long before they're in kicking range.

[Matthew Knowles]

In all my life I have never injured a dog or any other animal, intentionally, except mosquitoes and the odd horsefly.

 

A cow has never approached me close enough to threaten me but clapping the hands usually suffices to deter them long before they're in kicking range.

Mosquitoes, horseflies etc don't really count.

 

There have been a few occasions that we have been crossing a field of cows (as with any field with any livestock the dog was on a very close lead) when the cows (young herds are the worst) have come very close. While I suspect that a lot of it is simply inquisitiveness from the cows we have been aware that all the cows interest have been on the dog and not really on us.

 

On some occasions we could sense a tension (almost electricity) in the air and found that when we turned our backs the cows would approach quickly. Now, if we're crossing a field with a young herd one of us will walk with the dog while the other 'runs point' and walks backwards, always facing the herd. If my wife is out walking the dog alone she'll never cross a field with a young herd in it.

[Sir Nibble]

Cows in a field are in a field owned by the cow's owner for the purpose of keeping them in. If you want to buy a field for your dog then you can let the dog do as it pleases on your private property. In a public place your obligation both legal and moral to other people outweighs your obligation to the dog. I cannot say I particularly warm to Carl's "shoot first and ask questions later" approach but I perfectly understand how it arises from bitter experience. I would not harm any animal without good reason but I have several times had my boat boarded by dogs (whilst the owners, fully aware, take no notice) and I have no hesitation in repelling the boarder most forcefully.

[Naughty Cal]

Cows are just inquisitive. Turning your back on any pack animal is a sign you are unhappy with it or sad. It will come up and see what is wrong.

 

All those years of owning horses and ponies comes in useful sometimes.

[Matthew Knowles]

Cows are just inquisitive. Turning your back on any pack animal is a sign you are unhappy with it or sad. It will come up and see what is wrong.

 

All those years of owning horses and ponies comes in useful sometimes.

 

If you Google "walker killed cows" you'll see that there are many cases in which the cows have been far more than inquisitive. Also, in pretty much every case, there was a dog involved. I guess rather than being inquisitive they felt threatened by the dog (for whatever reason).

[Naughty Cal]

Cows are not aggresive animals. If they are scared they run. Like most herd animals their defense is to run away. If you are stood in their way stay still and they will run around you. Dont move as if they move in the same direction they will trample you.

[mayalld]

Cows in a field are in a field owned by the cow's owner for the purpose of keeping them in. If you want to buy a field for your dog then you can let the dog do as it pleases on your private property. In a public place your obligation both legal and moral to other people outweighs your obligation to the dog. I cannot say I particularly warm to Carl's "shoot first and ask questions later" approach but I perfectly understand how it arises from bitter experience. I would not harm any animal without good reason but I have several times had my boat boarded by dogs (whilst the owners, fully aware, take no notice) and I have no hesitation in repelling the boarder most forcefully.

 

AH, been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

 

Moored up near Thurlwood on the T&M, side hatch open towards the towpath, enjoying a delightful bacon butty for breakfast.

 

Suddenly, a dog (not on a lead) appears, plants its front legs on the gunwhales, and sticks its head through the hatch.

 

Our dogs go mad (and why shouldn't they, some interloper has just invaded their boat).

 

Contents of a glass of water promptly flung at offending dog, and I am met with a stream of abuse from the half-wit owner. What did I do that for? he wasn't doing any harm! She'll have the police on me!

 

In my experience, the vast majority of those who claim that their dogs cause no problems when off the lead make that claim only by arbitrarily redefining what other people must put up with.

[Guest User]

If you Google "walker killed cows" you'll see that there are many cases in which the cows have been far more than inquisitive. Also, in pretty much every case, there was a dog involved. I guess rather than being inquisitive they felt threatened by the dog (for whatever reason).

 

... self-defence going OTT ???

 

More seriously, how many reports are there of Farmers being trampled by cows ? I agree there are occasional aggressive reactions by cows to the presence of dogs, but I'd guess more often the inicidents are sparked by some walkers inappropriate reactions (with or without dogs) which in turn come from a nervousness borne of unfamiliarity with livestock

[barroca grande]

In my experience, the vast majority of those who claim that their dogs cause no problems when off the lead make that claim only by arbitrarily redefining what other people must put up with.

 

Indeed! Listening to J Vine a few weeks ago about owners and their dogs one of the stories was as follows:

 

Lady at some races puts handbag down to take photos. Notices dog peeing in said handbag. Went across to owners who said laughing 'oh he's always doing that!' No apology, no offer to pay cleaning bill or for damage to any items in there. Beggers belief.

 

Apparently if you walk in a park/public area you must expect strangers dogs to jump up and leave muddy paws, eat your picnic, knock over your small child etc He's only playing after all.

 

However what if your toddler approaches someone and leaves chocolate hand prints all over them - you apologise. Don't you?!? Oh maybe not ...

 

My cat doesn't walk on surfaces like tables or in the kitchen. Even she has boundaries.

 

And no I am not a keen gardener. I mow the lawn - just. And my flower borders are a haven for butterflies (nettles) etc. I keep getting leaflets through my door for gardening services I can't think why!

[Guest]

My dog chases parked cars. What does this say about him?

[Guest User]

My dog chases parked cars. What does this say about him?

He sets himself achievable goals ... eminently sensible

Edited June 19, 2009 by Graham!

[O'Mali]

AH, been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

 

Moored up near Thurlwood on the T&M, side hatch open towards the towpath, enjoying a delightful bacon butty for breakfast.

 

Suddenly, a dog (not on a lead) appears, plants its front legs on the gunwhales, and sticks its head through the hatch.

 

Our dogs go mad (and why shouldn't they, some interloper has just invaded their boat).

 

Contents of a glass of water promptly flung at offending dog, and I am met with a stream of abuse from the half-wit owner. What did I do that for? he wasn't doing any harm! She'll have the police on me!

 

In my experience, the vast majority of those who claim that their dogs cause no problems when off the lead make that claim only by arbitrarily redefining what other people must put up with.

Calm down man.

 

No wonder your dogs are so highly strung, don’t you know they pick up on your vibe.

 

What crime did this dog commit?

 

You got the smell of cooking bacon and dog fluing from your side hatch and he came to say hello. Did you think he/she was going to mug you for your bacon sandwich then beat your dogs up?

 

Any way that does not add up, if you had done that like you said, most of the water would have gone all over your fittings in your boat.

 

Did you wait until the dog was retreating first and you made sure the owner was a lone woman and not some 18st 6’6” meat head from the local estate who might have kicked seven bells out of you and p1**ed in your water tank that same night?

 

ETA...Also the dog could have done just that whilst on a lead.

 

I have been past boats with the hatches open whilst they are cooking and I have complimented them on the nice smell of what they are cooking and have had some very civil conversations whilst they carry on cooking.

 

I have had exactly the same scenario as you whilst on my boat, but as a “dog man” I said hello to the owner and gave the dog a sausage and even on the odd occasion shared a sausage with the owner to.

 

You catch more fly’s with honey than you do with vinegar !

 

Be cool man.

 

 

 

My dog chases parked cars. What does this say about him?

He wants an easy life Edited June 19, 2009 by O'Mali

[ditchcrawler]

Cows in a field are in a field owned by the cow's owner for the purpose of keeping them in. If you want to buy a field for your dog then you can let the dog do as it pleases on your private property. In a public place your obligation both legal and moral to other people outweighs your obligation to the dog. I cannot say I particularly warm to Carl's "shoot first and ask questions later" approach but I perfectly understand how it arises from bitter experience. I would not harm any animal without good reason but I have several times had my boat boarded by dogs (whilst the owners, fully aware, take no notice) and I have no hesitation in repelling the boarder most forcefully.

I have never shot a dog but I have helped to get young cows out of dykes on the marshes after "friendly" dogs have "just been playing with them"

I also know farmers who have, quite legally shot dogs in with their cows. This was in areas without public footpaths.

[Sir Nibble]

Calm down man.

 

No wonder your dogs are so highly strung, don’t you know they pick up on your vibe.

 

What crime did this dog commit?

 

You got the smell of cooking bacon and dog fluing from your side hatch and he came to say hello. Did you think he/she was going to mug you for your bacon sandwich then beat your dogs up?

 

Any way that does not add up, if you had done that like you said, most of the water would have gone all over your fittings in your boat.

 

Did you wait until the dog was retreating first and you made sure the owner was a lone woman and not some 18st 6’6” meat head from the local estate who might have kicked seven bells out of you and p1**ed in your water tank that same night?

 

ETA...Also the dog could have done just that whilst on a lead.

 

I have been past boats with the hatches open whilst they are cooking and I have complimented them on the nice smell of what they are cooking and have had some very civil conversations whilst they carry on cooking.

 

I have had exactly the same scenario as you whilst on my boat, but as a “dog man” I said hello to the owner and gave the dog a sausage and even on the odd occasion shared a sausage with the owner to.

 

You catch more fly’s with honey than you do with vinegar !

 

Be cool man.

 

 

 

He wants an easy life

Sorry mate but I think you miss the point. Daves boat is Daves boat, bought and paid for and his. Regardless of your opinion of his reaction or how he may or may not have handled the situation better, the fact remains that one has a perfect right to expect the inside of ones boat to remain unviolated by a person, dog or martian sticking their head in through a side hatch. Personally, I am very very nervous of dogs and would be really freaked out if this had happened to me. Dave, and I, have a perfect right not to be forced to share someone elses dog, lead or no lead, the owner should not allow their ANIMAL to invade a PERSON's private space. If they are unable to exercise that level of control they should not have the animal.

I used to keep bees, would it be reasonable for me to put a skep with a swarm in it on your deck whilst I go for a pee? Would my opinion outweigh yours as to what it is reasonable to happen on YOUR boat?

What's the difference? The idea that we all have to put up with dogs doing as they please out of gratitude for services rendered in the neolithic just to save modern man from being responsible for his dog in the present is simply unreasonable.

You come across as a bloke who has made every effort to be responsible and well informed about your dog ownership, why on earth do you feel you have to defend the owners of untrained, uncontrolled, ill behaved animals who have made no such effort?

[O'Mali]

Sorry mate but I think you miss the point. Daves boat is Daves boat, bought and paid for and his. Regardless of your opinion of his reaction or how he may or may not have handled the situation better, the fact remains that one has a perfect right to expect the inside of ones boat to remain unviolated by a person, dog or martian sticking their head in through a side hatch.[b]Yawn! The canal network is like one big narrow national park. I have had a Jap stick his head in my side hatch asking if he could take a photo. Very annoying and people and Martians should know better.[/b] Personally, I am very very nervous of dogs and would be really freaked out if this had happened to me. Dave, and I, have a perfect right not to be forced to share someone elses dog, lead or no lead, the owner should not allow their ANIMAL to invade a PERSON's private space. If they are unable to exercise that level of control they should not have the animal. I understand your point of view as someone who is nervous of dogs.If I ever meet you, I would like to help you with this. I used to keep bees, would it be reasonable for me to put a skep with a swarm in it on your deck whilst I go for a pee? Would my opinion outweigh yours as to what it is reasonable to happen on YOUR boat?Defence is, you put it there, if they just appeared, I would not throw a hissy fit. This dog owner was just taking a walk with her dog and may not even known the boat was occupied until it was to late. What's the difference? The idea that we all have to put up with dogs doing as they please out of gratitude for services rendered in the neolithic just to save modern man from being responsible for his dog in the present is simply unreasonable.Mate just because you have a fear of dogs does not mean people should not use the canal tow paths to enjoy excerising their dogs. You come across as a bloke who has made every effort to be responsible and well informed about your dog ownership, why on earth do you feel you have to defend the owners of untrained, uncontrolled, ill behaved animals who have made no such effort?TY but I am not defending anyone. I want an end to bad dog ownership as much as anyone, I just felt Dave’s post was way a OTT reaction to nothing serious.

 

If the owner was from the land based community I can imagine her telling people about boaters throwing hissy fits and lumping us all in together as neurotic water pikies and hoping her dog always craps outside a boat.

 

If she is off a boat, Dave better put a lock on his water tank.

[Tom6]

All very interesting. I'm more of a cat person myself but my dad's got a really sweet dog. At least she's sweet until any other dog takes the slightest interest in her or in being playful even - then she goes for them. I once saw her go for a rottweiler which seemed very well trained and seemed to realise its 'mistake' and backed down really fast at which our dog relaxed and obeyed me (for the first time ever). Since then i've been really careful to get her on a lead fast if someone hoves into view, just in case they have a dog with them. It's not always possible but she seems to be obeying me more and more on simple things, like when i say "No, a proper stick" she looks sad for a moment and then trots off to find something bigger than half a blade of grass with slobber all over it. If i stupidly throw a stick into a field or the cut and say "No" she just gets me a different stick nowadays. So if i can't get the lead on fast enough i get my hand through her collar as quick as i can and then pretty much sit on her while radiating "Go away" vibes at the other dog, which usually buggers off. One dog came over to the boat being happy and friendly to say hi so i locked eyes with it and told it to "bugger off" in a gentle voice but lifted a corner of my mouth, altogether not what she'd been expecting and she quickly found better things to do which was fine by my dad's dog. A retreating dog is one that knows its place and hence doesn't need to be told. A boat with an open side door and wafty food smells was irresistible but a sharp word from me and she came back to heel fairly fast (or was there a glass of water ). I think it was later the same walk that a huge german shepherd became the first dog she hasn't tried to go for, a very well trained and respectful wise looking dog. A credit to a good owner. That was the one day I did feed her before myself but it was late in the day, much later than normal and the walk had been much longer but i still wish i hadn't done it. Pack leader eats first, always and no excuses.

 

I found the "tramp" comments quite puzzling earlier. I've spent a few months at a time being homeless, sleeping rough for only a week or two at a time, if it wasn't for the snow it would have been pleasant camping 'holiday' although unchosen. One time i shared a house with two well known drug dealers and we'd have the front door kicked in by people with guns and stuff so sometimes then i used to sleep rough just to get a decently safe nights sleep, again i would have prefered it in the summer. The last time we had half a dozen blokes and one was armed with an axe. Somehow the axe was a much more terrifying weapon than the guns, odd that. Watching the YouTube videos of the dogs reminded me of that feeling because a dog attack has something much more primal about it. From watching those movies though i can't help feeling that avoiding wearing a large quilted protective arm shield seems to be a good plan as they always went for the heavy protection worn by those guys. Also not attacking the dogs owner, i must somehow remember that one So after the axeman the last of the two drug-dealers agreed to move out and i found a nicer house too. Apparently it's quite a happy nice house to live in now. Anyway, i never really got the skills together to be a proper tramp but i've done a little light tramping and have a lot of respect for some of them just maybe not many of the crazy youngsters in towns. I didn't think the way 'tramp' was used first time was offensive it just seemed to be descriptive - you know, watch out cos this guy could be around at any time of the day or night. A dog owner with that much lack of control of his dog is really not worthy of respect at all, pity maybe but not respect. The later comments objecting to the use of the word 'tramp' seemed to be far more insulting than the original post which is what i found strange.

 

So i'm still really a cat person and although it's all very interesting and i seem to be building up a good relationship with my dad's dog now she seems to see me capable of 'defending our little pack' from the hostiles without her 'help', its still a relief to hand her back after a walk and see the love between them.

 

This thread has given me a lot to think about

Thanks folks

Regards from

Tom

Edited June 20, 2009 by Tom6

[mayalld]

Calm down man.

 

No wonder your dogs are so highly strung, don't you know they pick up on your vibe.

 

What crime did this dog commit?

 

You got the smell of cooking bacon and dog fluing from your side hatch and he came to say hello. Did you think he/she was going to mug you for your bacon sandwich then beat your dogs up?

 

The dog knows no better. The owner ought to.

 

My boat, my rules, and one of those rules is you don't come on board without my permission. It is a rule that applies to both humans and dogs, and a rule that our dogs are happy with.

 

If a dog sticks his head through the side hatch, the owner doesn't have him under control. Simple.

 

Any way that does not add up, if you had done that like you said, most of the water would have gone all over your fittings in your boat.

 

Did you wait until the dog was retreating first and you made sure the owner was a lone woman and not some 18st 6'6" meat head from the local estate who might have kicked seven bells out of you and p1**ed in your water tank that same night?

 

I had no idea who the owner was at the time, and frankly I don't care. If somebody wants to get arsey, I will defend myself, and they will lose. I won't be in the same place to worry about the water tank at night.

 

ETA...Also the dog could have done just that whilst on a lead.

 

Not if the dog was effectively controlled he couldn't.

 

I have been past boats with the hatches open whilst they are cooking and I have complimented them on the nice smell of what they are cooking and have had some very civil conversations whilst they carry on cooking.

 

I have had exactly the same scenario as you whilst on my boat, but as a "dog man" I said hello to the owner and gave the dog a sausage and even on the odd occasion shared a sausage with the owner to.

 

Feel free to do as you wish on your boat. Kindly respect MY rules on MY boat.

[O'Mali]

The dog knows no better. The owner ought to.

 

My boat, my rules, and one of those rules is you don't come on board without my permission. It is a rule that applies to both humans and dogs, and a rule that our dogs are happy with.

 

If a dog sticks his head through the side hatch, the owner doesn't have him under control. Simple.

 

 

 

I had no idea who the owner was at the time, and frankly I don't care. If somebody wants to get arsey, I will defend myself, and they will lose. I won't be in the same place to worry about the water tank at night.

 

 

 

Not if the dog was effectively controlled he couldn't.

 

 

 

Feel free to do as you wish on your boat. Kindly respect MY rules on MY boat.

I think we have a difference of opinion on what “under control” means. That point could be argued, but I would say in this case, the dog certainly was not “out of control” by just looking in your side hatch to inquire as to what the smell is, as you say, the dog knows no better. Would it not have been better to shooo the dog away, dissembark your vessel and attempt to educate the dog owner and share your feelings ? You never know, you might even make a new friend.

 

I don’t like it when the children that play in the street come into our front garden to hide behind my van but I don’t go out there all aggressive throwing water about and getting into dramas with the locals even though I have a rule that no one comes onto MY property uninvited.

 

So you’re the toughest man in the village are you? Lol, says it all really.

 

Not everyone lives in your sanitised world of pre programmed robots.

[Tom6]

A glass of water is pretty harmless, maybe a bit of a surprise - hopefully the dog didn't like it too much and come back for more I think the kids hiding behind the van might also enjoy a quick spray from a garden hose or a bucket of luke-warm water. An aggressive display brings a dilemma, whether to face the threat and protect the pack or whether to run off. In my case i'd just called the dog back already and she obeyed, as she does nowadays - a dilemma over-ridden by the pack-leader.

Edited June 21, 2009 by Tom6

[mayalld]

I think we have a difference of opinion on what "under control" means. That point could be argued, but I would say in this case, the dog certainly was not "out of control" by just looking in your side hatch to inquire as to what the smell is, as you say, the dog knows no better. Would it not have been better to shooo the dog away, dissembark your vessel and attempt to educate the dog owner and share your feelings ? You never know, you might even make a new friend.

 

I don't like it when the children that play in the street come into our front garden to hide behind my van but I don't go out there all aggressive throwing water about and getting into dramas with the locals even though I have a rule that no one comes onto MY property uninvited.

 

So you're the toughest man in the village are you? Lol, says it all really.

 

Not everyone lives in your sanitised world of pre programmed robots.

 

If the dog is able to go into places it shouldn't go, it is not under control.

 

Would it have been better to share my feelings with the dog owner?

 

No. It ought to be self-evident to anybody with two brain cells to rub together that it is not acceptable to allow your dog to intrude into other people's space. Trying to make conversation with somebody who lacks the wit to understand that without explanation is a waste of my time.

 

No, I'm not the toughest man in the village. I don't "do" violence, ever. I am, however, no 7-stone weakling. If somebody else wishes to solve something with violence, I'm not going to run away from them.