Diesel pricing Red versus White

[alan_fincher]

We are frequently urged on here to buy roadside white in Jerry cans, rather than fill up canal-side.

 

As we are about to go boating, (hopefully), I just rang Uxbridge boat centre for current "red" prices, which are £1.08 propulsion and 62p Non propulsion.

 

On a 60/40 declaration, I make that under 90 pence per litre, averaged.

 

My local roadside garages, on the other hand, are charging £1.06 for white 'DERV'.

 

Other than that white might be more friendly to a diesel heater, (which we don't have), what am I missing ?

 

I've not tried to chase the lowest price on the lower GU, either, just asked one place that's not normally a rip off. The fuel boats may undercut that slightly, I don't know.

 

Alan

[chris w]

We are frequently urged on here to buy roadside white in Jerry cans, rather than fill up canal-side.

 

Alan

Only by cheapskates trying to save tuppence on the propulsion part and who don't mind lugging jerry can after heavy jerry can half way across the countryside and then slopping some of it into their tanks and the rest into the canal.

 

Chris

[Naughty Cal]

Buy 40% for domestic use from your local supplier/marina at 62ppl

Buy 60% for propulsion from the petrol station at 95ppl

 

Your 60/40 split is then much cheaper.

 

Only by cheapskates trying to save tuppence on the propulsion part and who don't mind lugging jerry can after heavy jerry can half way across the countryside and then slopping some of it into their tanks and the rest into the canal.

 

Chris

 

Depends how much you are saving. We are paying 60ppl for our red whilst our marina wants to charge £1.22ppl. Saving 50% on each litre is a big saving when you use as much as we do.

[magpie patrick]

Buy 40% for domestic use from your local supplier/marina at 62ppl

Buy 60% for propulsion from the petrol station at 95ppl

 

Your 60/40 split is then much cheaper.

 

Depends how much you are saving. We are paying 60ppl for our red whilst our marina wants to charge £1.22ppl. Saving 50% on each litre is a big saving when you use as much as we do.

 

Is your Marina really charging £1.22 for propulsion and 62p for non-propulsion? If so, they really are taking the l*g*r, the difference in tax is around 45p, not 60p!

[FadeToScarlet]

It's more convenient out here in the flatlands to get a jerrycan. The nearest red diesel is either expensive (Ely) or a longish way away (Earith).

[Naughty Cal]

Is your Marina really charging £1.22 for propulsion and 62p for non-propulsion? If so, they really are taking the l*g*r, the difference in tax is around 45p, not 60p!

 

No £1.22 and £0.77

 

Hence why we are buying elsewhere and carrying it in the car. Its no great loss as out supplier is on our way home from the boat anyway. We just pick up 60 litres at 60ppl on the way home store it in the garage for the week then take it to the boat on a firday evening.

[onthecut]

We are frequently urged on here to buy roadside white in Jerry cans, rather than fill up canal-side.

 

As we are about to go boating, (hopefully), I just rang Uxbridge boat centre for current "red" prices, which are £1.08 propulsion and 62p Non propulsion.

 

On a 60/40 declaration, I make that under 90 pence per litre, averaged.

 

My local roadside garages, on the other hand, are charging £1.06 for white 'DERV'.

 

Other than that white might be more friendly to a diesel heater, (which we don't have), what am I missing ?

 

I've not tried to chase the lowest price on the lower GU, either, just asked one place that's not normally a rip off. The fuel boats may undercut that slightly, I don't know.

 

Alan

 

Just make sure you remember to claim for it properly on your expenses.

 

Mike.

[chris w]

Buy 40% for domestic use from your local supplier/marina at 62ppl

Buy 60% for propulsion from the petrol station at 95ppl

 

Your 60/40 split is then much cheaper.

 

 

 

Depends how much you are saving. We are paying 60ppl for our red whilst our marina wants to charge £1.22ppl. Saving 50% on each litre is a big saving when you use as much as we do.

I think your maths is wrong.... you stated above white was 95ppl as against £1.22.. that's not 50% it's about 20%

 

I can't believe it's worth 20 quid to have to lug diesel across the country with the attendant risk of spilling loads into the canal.

 

Chris

[Naughty Cal]

I think your maths is wrong.... you stated above white was 95ppl as against £1.22.. that's not 50% it's about 20%

 

I can't believe it's worth 20 quid to have to lug diesel across the country with the attendant risk of spilling loads into the canal.

 

Chris

 

Its 95ppl at the petrol station and 122ppl at the marina. That is a difference of 27ppl. When you use 200 odd litres a month thats £54 quid extra to buy from the marina. There is also a petrol station less than a mile from the marina so its not really lugging it across the country. We dont use this method anymore as we have found a much cheaper alternative closer to home.

 

60ppl is in my eyes worth lugging containers around for.

[alan_fincher]

Just make sure you remember to claim for it properly on your expenses.

 

Mike.

 

?????????????

 

Please explain ????????

 

What expenses ?

 

 

Its 95ppl at the petrol station

Seems that the age old discrepancies on road fuel pricing are still with us....

 

I've not seen DERV at any garage in our locality at under £1 in many weeks, and the harsh reality is it's up to £1.05 or £1.06 at most places I'm passing. If you really can still buy at 95p, make the most of it.

 

Frankly with the differences in the amounts being bough and sold, I'm astounded that Uxbridge Boat Centre are only quoting 2 pence per litre more for fully taxed propulsion "red" than garages are now charging for DERV.

[Gretzky]

Depends how much you are saving. We are paying 60ppl for our red whilst our marina wants to charge £1.22ppl.

 

Yeah i saw that last time i went for a pump out I thought it must be a mistake, £1.22ppl is ridiculous!

[alan_fincher]

Yeah i saw that last time i went for a pump out I thought it must be a mistake, £1.22ppl is ridiculous!

Absolutely.

 

If they are charging you £1.22 for every litre that is pumped out, they are clearly ripping you off.

[Naughty Cal]

Thats why no one is buying it.

 

We pay less than half of that for all of our diesel.

[Gretzky]

Absolutely.

 

If they are charging you £1.22 for every litre that is pumped out, they are clearly ripping you off.

 

Believe me, if they though there was even the slightest chance they though someone would pay that I am sure they would

[Naughty Cal]

Believe me, if they though there was even the slightest chance they though someone would pay that I am sure they would

 

Some "residents" dont know any better though

[bristol & argo]

Cassio Bridge, the Shell each side on the A412 DERV is 99.9ppl.

 

 

 

 

simon.

[Nickhlx]

Around our region, Guildford and Reading have many / most garages still selling white road diesel at 99.9p.

 

Whilst I know some are entirely happy with red in diesel heaters, there also seem to be a significant number of users who find red is very suspect with theirs.

 

With the doubt about purity of red and possible "contamination" (dilution with ?old engine oil - deliberate or otherwise) from some supply chains I would be prepared to justify a differential of maybe 10p a litre for the "better" white diesel.

 

Consequently, being a fit and able sort of chap, I will be buying white until Red drops below around 90p / litre for propulsion and will consider the carrying of jerrycans occasionally a bit of exercise. Not being continuous cruisers, we are not getting through vast quantities, and can park right next to the pump and the boat, so carrying is minimal.

 

Hopefully we will avoid the potential alleged problems red can bring, and also some of the paperwork required - merely keeping a log of hours under way and filling station receipts.......

 

Nick

[alan_fincher]

Fair enough.

 

But unless buying from some very dodgy sources, I really struggle to believe the "diluted with ?old engine oil" bit.

 

How much old engine oil would they need to put in to make it worth risking being caught ?

 

And would it really still come out a nice clear see through pink colour ?

 

I can accept that some things, (like heaters), might not like the extra sulphur in red, (which is part of the spec), but haven't heard a shred of evidence of reputable outlets selling red that's been deliberately or accidentally contaminated, (ever).

 

Hopefully we will avoid the potential alleged problems red can bring, and also some of the paperwork required - merely keeping a log of hours under way and filling station receipts.......

I'm not aware of anything in the HMRC guidelines that actually requires me to keep any paperwork at all about gas oil purchases, declarations made, or actual use. Some may be choosing to to this so they could justify their position if they were ever asked to. I'm not saying that's a bad idea, but I don't think there's any actual requirement, is there ?

 

I can see no difference between keeping a record of how much 'red' I have bought for propulsion use, or keeping a record of how much 'white' I have bought for propulsion use, so I can't see how one can be argued as more arduous in paperwork terms. Clearly 'white' is more arduous in terms of the physical effort involved, though.

[Guest steve jenkin]

i only pay 57p a litre for my red, and declare 90-10. calculate how much you use for hot water and heating, my engine on a run burns about half a litre an hour, so i use most of my fuel for electric and heating etc, fcuk gordon brown, europe and all the other beuro twats!!!!

[carlt]

fcuk gordon brown, europe and all the other beuro twats!!!!

Yeah them Europeans!

 

Telling us that we can reduce our overall fuel bills, if we fall into line with the EU (pity we stuck to our guns and ended up with this ridiculous, unilateral, cock up)

 

Did you know that, if you have a historic boat, registered with the Dutch equivalent of our National Register of Historic Vessels, you can still put red diesel in your propulsion tanks, in the Netherlands.

 

Of course you don't get the 10% historic boat discount, on your boat licence...BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A BOAT LICENCE!

 

But things are so much better here, in Blighty, with our heads in the sand.

Edited May 20, 2009 by carlt

[Chris J W]

My last top up at Aspley Basin was, as near as damn, £1 for 1 litre at a 60/40 split. It would have been a tad cheaper to have bought it from Sainsbury - but more hassle!

[Roger Gunkel]

But unless buying from some very dodgy sources, I really struggle to believe the "diluted with ?old engine oil" bit.

 

How much old engine oil would they need to put in to make it worth risking being caught ?

 

And would it really still come out a nice clear see through pink colour ?

 

I can accept that some things, (like heaters), might not like the extra sulphur in red, (which is part of the spec), but haven't heard a shred of evidence of reputable outlets selling red that's been deliberately or accidentally contaminated, (ever).

:lol:

 

And there was me thinking I was in a minority of one! I totally agree Alan, every time there is a fault with a diesel heater, the suppliers and manufacturers have been trotting that one out for years. I think there was a case about 25 years ago of some dodgy back of truck supplier being prosecuted for selling red diesel with waste oil in to farmers. Since then its been dragged out as a justification for all sorts of arguments, and like you I have seen no evidence against regular suppliers, to back it up, ever!!! Not even from heater manufacturers! Perhaps if anyone has any, they can let us know so we can avoid buying our fuel there.

 

Roger

[Oliver1954]

Yeah them Europeans!

 

Telling us that we can reduce our overall fuel bills, if we fall into line with the EU (pity we stuck to our guns and ended up with this ridiculous, unilateral, cock up)

 

Did you know that, if you have a historic boat, registered with the Dutch equivalent of our National Register of Historic Vessels, you can still put red diesel in your propulsion tanks, in the Netherlands.

 

Of course you don't get the 10% historic boat discount, on your boat licence...BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A BOAT LICENCE!

 

But things are so much better here, in Blighty, with our heads in the sand.

 

 

Well said Carl!

 

And to those that blame Europe for EVERYTHING that is wrong here in the UK, think about this..."When you argue with reality, you lose - but only 100% of the time".

[nick the boats]

In defence of the marinas.

 

Anyone can go and buy 1000 ltrs of red diesel from a bulk supplier, this weeks price 42ppl plus 5% vat. 44ppl

They will not ask you what your using it for and know nothing of 60/40 split for the boat industry.

The people buying red on the way home for 60ppl will not mention or be asked anything about 60/40 split or boat use, but their supplier has marked it up about 35%.

 

Now marinas buy at the same price but are registered with HMC for marine use and have to account for every litre.

Their selling price is now plus 44ppl for propulsion making it cost 88ppl if they mark it up 35% it becomes £1.19 pl with domestic being 60ppl.

So Uxbridge boat centre are making a smaller %.

 

Please dont hold me to my figures being right or wrong or a few % out.

 

Me, I run a boat yard and hire fleet, and I buy and use red diesel, but we have no pump so don't sell any.

 

From my understanding at the end of the year the tax office ( HMC) will ask me, along with marinas, hire firms, boat yards who buy in red diesel for our 44ppl on 60% of my purchase of red diesel unless we can prove otherwise.

 

Now to the pub.

[churchward]

In defence of the marinas.

 

Anyone can go and buy 1000 ltrs of red diesel from a bulk supplier, this weeks price 42ppl plus 5% vat. 44ppl

They will not ask you what your using it for and know nothing of 60/40 split for the boat industry.

The people buying red on the way home for 60ppl will not mention or be asked anything about 60/40 split or boat use, but their supplier has marked it up about 35%.

 

Now marinas buy at the same price but are registered with HMC for marine use and have to account for every litre.

Their selling price is now plus 44ppl for propulsion making it cost 88ppl if they mark it up 35% it becomes £1.19 pl with domestic being 60ppl.

So Uxbridge boat centre are making a smaller %.

 

Please dont hold me to my figures being right or wrong or a few % out.

 

Me, I run a boat yard and hire fleet, and I buy and use red diesel, but we have no pump so don't sell any.

 

From my understanding at the end of the year the tax office ( HMC) will ask me, along with marinas, hire firms, boat yards who buy in red diesel for our 44ppl on 60% of my purchase of red diesel unless we can prove otherwise.

 

Now to the pub.

 

Personally I have no gripe at all with our Marina and the price of diesel. There pump price is OK compared to everyone else and they look after the moorers by selling the advertised price at a discount. Even without the discount the price doesn't (at 60/40) make it worthwhile and hassle of lugging jerry cans of white about and with it then it's a no brainer you won't buy cheaper at the forecourt. In any case much easier to swing the boat around from the mooring and go and get it filled up before or after we have been out and about.