Demeter - a Ken Keay boat?

[Ros P]

BW has contacted the HNBOC about a sunken boat on the Coventry at Whittington. This is starting to cause an obstruction to navigation and needs removing quite quickly. As it is difficult to get a crane to a suitable position it is likely that the boat will be broken up in order to remove it. The attached photograph shows the boat as it was a week or two ago. Its condition is a bit worse than the photos suggest and it has now moved further into the channel.

 

The boat appears to be a Ken Keay-built wooden hireboat/cruiser, probably built in the early 60s and probably originally carrying the name of a bird. It has some historic value but is unlikely to be unique as we think that several are still around. (Does anyone know of a definitive list of Ken Keay boats?)

 

If anyone wants this boat they should contact Elizabeth Turner at BW West Midlands very quickly. (elizabeth.turner@ britishwaterways .co.uk).

 

Phil Prettyman

Chair

Historic Narrow Boat Owners Club

[denboy]

were is the photo tho

oh and welcome too

Edited March 18, 2009 by denboy

[Liam]

Here's the pic...

 

[alan_fincher]

Out of interest, why does it need craning.

 

I'm no expert, but from the picture it doesn't look to be impossible to raise with pumps. Or is it ?

[carlt]

I know Demeter well.

 

She is not a Ken Keay boat but a Walton, built in the late 60's.

 

She is a lovely boat and not in too bad nick, either.

 

I will contact some of her previous owners, to see if they miss her as much as they've told me they do and, if anyone is interested in taking her on, I will refloat her.

[carlt]

It has some historic value but is unlikely to be unique as we think that several are still around. (Does anyone know of a definitive list of Ken Keay boats?)

In fact there are very few scratch -built Ken Keay leisure boats left (The majority were actually chop down work boats) I know of only two and one of those (Lionheart) is/was in a very precarious position at (I believe) Market Drayton.

 

I'm ashamed to say I can't remember the name of the other boat (the owner of which is convinced he owns a chopped down Ricky, but he doesn't).

[pete harrison]

In fact there are very few scratch -built Ken Keay leisure boats left (The majority were actually chop down work boats) I know of only two and one of those (Lionheart) is/was in a very precarious position at (I believe) Market Drayton.

 

I'm ashamed to say I can't remember the name of the other boat (the owner of which is convinced he owns a chopped down Ricky, but he doesn't).

 

 

I think the name of the other "scratch-built Ken Keay leisure boat" is LINGUIST, built 1971.

 

I believe another Keay's boat worthy of mention is the KEN KEAY which was started by Keay's but completed by Dennis Cooper, Norton Canes. I also recall THE HILTON (tied on lower Staffs & Worc's during early 1980's) and the H.F. TRUMAN which was used as a hire cruiser during the early 1980's, latterly for Associated Cruisers, Wolverhampton (along with USK)

[Derek R.]

I think the name of the other "scratch-built Ken Keay leisure boat" is LINGUIST, built 1971.

 

I believe another Keay's boat worthy of mention is the KEN KEAY which was started by Keay's but completed by Dennis Cooper, Norton Canes. I also recall THE HILTON (tied on lower Staffs & Worc's during early 1980's) and the H.F. TRUMAN which was used as a hire cruiser during the early 1980's, latterly for Associated Cruisers, Wolverhampton (along with USK)

 

Welcome to the chatterbox Pete, or should that be 'thunderbox'!

Nice to hear from you.

 

Derek

[AMModels]

Linguist is currently up north lying sunk and waiting either BW with the dredger or a new owner to raise and lavish some care on her.

 

Further details can be found, and some excellent pictures, on the boat and canal forum of which I dont have a link due to this being a new computer.

 

Now swapped over so...

 

 

doesnt look in too bad an order from these pics but as any wooden boat owner will tell you looks can be deceiving.

Edited March 28, 2009 by AMModels

[carlt]

So Linguist is up North, sunk and dying......last I heard (over a year ago) Lionheart was at Market Drayton, stripped bare and abandoned.

 

It seems ironic that the HNBOC trophy, for best wooden boat restoration, is the "Ken Keay Award" yet there is no will to restore his boats.

 

The one good thing, I suppose, is that Linguist wasn't the boat I was referring to, in my earlier post. So there could still be one out there, in good order.

 

The one I was thinking of was around 50' with a white painted aluminium skinned cabin (a lot like Gort's), btw. It used to bob around Rugby, about 10 years ago, but I haven't seen it for ages.

[Derek R.]

(snip)

It seems ironic that the HNBOC trophy, for best wooden boat restoration, is the "Ken Keay Award" yet there is no will to restore his boats.

(snip)

 

Wooden boat builders and repairers are somewhat similar to undertakers - there'll always be work for them. The big difference is that with boats, it's often not a lack of will-power, it's a lack of money, and as we well know a wooden boat is an ongoing restoration job - far more so than a metal one. Stop fixing something for a year - and it's all downhill from there and often rapidly.

 

When Tycho (all steel) was built its expectation of life was 25 years. It's still here and afloat (last time I looked) 72 years later and mostly original.

What was the expectation of life of a wooden narrowboat spending its life working? Five - ten years?

 

Wooden boats have an affinity to water that other materials do not have, they swim differently, sound different, feel different, and they represent an historic skill. But The only wooden boat I have is sitting on the sideboard. It'll last quite a while on there.

 

This isn't to say they should all be broken up and burnt, but a simple point that if you want a wooden narrowboat to last - you will have to have very deep pockets with plenty in them, and reach in regularly.

-----------

Now I'm not taking the Michael -

 

Here's one of a sympathetic material to wood - cardboard. How long would it last in water?

 

 

Can I move to make a 'Corrugated' award for the best cardboard boat?

[carlt]

Wooden boat builders and repairers are somewhat similar to undertakers - there'll always be work for them. The big difference is that with boats, it's often not a lack of will-power, it's a lack of money, and as we well know a wooden boat is an ongoing restoration job - far more so than a metal one. Stop fixing something for a year - and it's all downhill from there and often rapidly.

 

Wooden boats have an affinity to water that other materials do not have, they swim differently, sound different, feel different, and they represent an historic skill. But The only wooden boat I have is sitting on the sideboard. It'll last quite a while on there.

 

This isn't to say they should all be broken up and burnt, but a simple point that if you want a wooden narrowboat to last - you will have to have very deep pockets with plenty in them, and reach in regularly.

-----------

I know of two wooden boat builders that have given up, recently, because there was no shortage of work but a lack of willingness to pay.

 

The concept of actually paying a fair rate, for the craftmanship, seems lost, on some wooden boat owners.

 

If I thought I could charge £1k a foot, or more, as some steel boatbuilders get away with, I'd be looking for a yard right now.

 

There are 4 builders that are able to command a good rate (and two of them are over-rated), the rest are lucky if they can get away with £12 an hour.

 

The cost of keeping a wooden boat is a myth, though, brought about by the starting point wooden boats are, usually, acquired at.

 

Most wooden boats require a full restoration, due to years of neglect but, if you start with a new one (or fully restored) then the maintenance costs are comparable to steel.

Edited March 28, 2009 by carlt

[hughc]

We're restoring a Keay,s boat. Regards, HughC.

[Hobbler]

I think the name of the other "scratch-built Ken Keay leisure boat" is LINGUIST, built 1971.

 

I believe another Keay's boat worthy of mention is the KEN KEAY which was started by Keay's but completed by Dennis Cooper, Norton Canes. I also recall THE HILTON (tied on lower Staffs & Worc's during early 1980's) and the H.F. TRUMAN which was used as a hire cruiser during the early 1980's, latterly for Associated Cruisers, Wolverhampton (along with USK)

 

The Hilton was around until the late 1990's , usually moored above Whittington Horse Bridge on the Staffs & Worcs and complete with imitation wooden canon on the roof .By this time she was going down hill quite rapidly and I did hear second or third hand that she was broken up .

[dave moore]

Hi all

The Hilton has indeed vanicshed, tho Phil Speight has the rear doors, painted by Tony Lewery for Nick Grazebrook, one time owner. He was a solicitor who did much to support boaters' "end of garden moorings" and sadly died in a boating accident a few years back. Nick's subsequent boat, "Ken Keay" was a wooden hull by Ken, completed with a steel cabin by Denis Cooper at Norton Canes. I spoke to the current owner several years back and she said that Roger Hatchard was looking after it for her; if so the boat's in excellent hands.

Cheers

Dave

[Hobbler]

At the time I was very shocked to hear of Nick's untimely death as I had been talking to him only a couple of days earlier . We used to refer to the Ken Keay, not unkindly ,as "The Flying Banana" and would often pass it at Wolverley . I worked with the subsequent owner for a while and although its several years since I saw her I understood she was going to sell the boat so its good to know Roger maybe looking after it.

[Natalie Graham]

The Ken Keay was up for sale last year through ABNB brokerage. It was on their website for quite a while and then was "under offer" and then disappeared from the site so I presume it was sold. It had been refitted and was painted in a rather "distinctive" combination of lilac and purple! I had the particulars but I think they must be on my previous, now dead, computer. The price was very reasonable for one of the nicest boats I've seen.

[AMModels]

pics now added in my post above.

[carlt]

We're restoring a Keay,s boat. Regards, HughC.

A rather modest statement, considering the boat you're restoring.

[Speedwheel]

We're restoring a Keay,s boat. Regards, HughC.

 

How is it coming along? Pic for you -

 

If I could have any boat of my choice it would be a wooden one. Actually I take that back, if I could have any boat I know exactly which one I would have (you know who you are!!!!). Wooden boats are totally different to anything metal. The feel so much different/better. It is hard to explain but anyone who has had/used one will know what I mean. If I had either the money and/or the skills I would definately be on the lookout for one. Sadly I have neither!

Edited March 28, 2009 by Satellite

[hughc]

Judith Ann has the foredeck fitted and the cabin beams cut out. I'm unsure about which engine to fit. We have a Ruston which was fitted to the boat at some stage but it is very heavy. It is at the moment a choice between a J3 and an Armstrong AS2. I'm leaning towards the Armstrong since it is air cooled. Progress is slow since as has been mentioned new wooden boats, and that is what this is, are expensive beasts. Regards, HughC.

[Speedwheel]

Judith Ann has the foredeck fitted and the cabin beams cut out. I'm unsure about which engine to fit. We have a Ruston which was fitted to the boat at some stage but it is very heavy. It is at the moment a choice between a J3 and an Armstrong AS2. I'm leaning towards the Armstrong since it is air cooled. Progress is slow since as has been mentioned new wooden boats, and that is what this is, are expensive beasts. Regards, HughC.

 

There is an AS2 for sale in the HNBOC mag at the moment. I think it is David Daines one but can't remember off the top of my head. I had an AS3 in Satellite and have to say it was a great engine. Had its off moments but never let me down.

What did she originally have?

[hughc]

There is an AS2 for sale in the HNBOC mag at the moment. I think it is David Daines one but can't remember off the top of my head. I had an AS3 in Satellite and have to say it was a great engine. Had its off moments but never let me down.

What did she originally have?

Thanks for the photograph they all help to fill out the history. As to engines the more I learn the more confusing it becomes. I think that the original was a Dorman but Blossom on his website remembers her with a Bolinder. The original engine beds were splayed and ran down perhaps half of the hull. She certainly had the Ruston VROM 4 at one stage when and when we bought her she had just had a JP4 removed under very dubious circumstances. The weight of the engines in what was a lightly built, 1.5" planked, hull contributed to the back end virtually falling off. The Armstrong is certainly a good engine the one in Collingwood has given sterling service over many years. Regards, HughC.

[Paul H]

I know Demeter well.

 

She is not a Ken Keay boat but a Walton, built in the late 60's.

 

She is a lovely boat and not in too bad nick, either.

 

I will contact some of her previous owners, to see if they miss her as much as they've told me they do and, if anyone is interested in taking her on, I will refloat her.

 

Any news? Is Demeter saved?

 

Paul H

[carlt]

Any news? Is Demeter saved?

 

Paul H

I've piqued the interest of a former owner and we went to see her, last weekend, to see if it was doable.

 

Though she's sunk and across into the channel she is refloatable and I put ropes on her to stop her slipping further in.

 

I'm gathering equipment together (a lot of my stuff was on Usk, when she was burnt and the rest is loaned out) but, if the guy is still interested, I will try and refloat her this coming week.

 

Even if there are no immediate takers, I may well raise her anyway. It will save BW getting the dredger dirty and, floating, someone may decide she is worth a go.