Bad news for canal pub

[Neil TNC]

Actually, I do agree.

 

I thought the food poor and overpriced when we went there for a banter, (but as vegetarians we are often disappointed), and the beer was what could only be described as mediocre..

 

I'm only repeating what WW says.

 

Now if they would close the bl**dy "Three Locks" at Soulbury, that really would be doing the boating fraternity a great favour! (The pub, not the flight! )

 

What do you expect from a BW / S&N pubco pub?

I thought it was going to be "refurbished"?

[Barry]

Oh, I dunn ... I'm a Sam Smiths fan -

 

 

Me too!!

 

Sam Smith's Nut Brown Ale - heaven in a bottle

[onthecut]

Hi Guys.

 

Anyone know the fate of the pub closest to the Marina entrance at Ellesmere ? (up the hill into the town and it's set back on the left near the top of the road). First time I went I thought they had the best beer and character in town. There in the dock last year and it had the board up advertising for new tenants -- was still open but in a dire state -- never saw more than half a dozen folks at all and definitely had that soon be shut feeling.

 

Mike.

[norman.r]

I'm going to take the subject back to the "Star" at Acton and say that I have met the the two people involved and know that they have done everything to make the place work. One of my daughters and her partner operate a pub also owned by Enterprise Inns and the firm just operates a policy of getting as much as possible from their tenants without regard to the future success of the business. The company recently put their pub up for sale and without consultation with any one of the family. My daughter's partner decided to make an offer for the business but Enterprise Inns would not discuss it with him and subsequently took the pub back of the market.

It seems to me that these so called Pubcos are a busted flush and soon with any luck go the same way as so many other enterprises that have no real meaning for being, apart from making money for themselves. We used to criticise the breweries for the way they ran their pubs but at least they had a reason for being in the business.

Any way I've had my rant and not much good it will do.

Norman

[RLWP]

Any way I've had my rant and not much good it will do.

Norman

 

Oh I don't know. A good rant never hurt anyone.

 

Richard

 

Nice Carrick bend in your avatar by the way.

[sueb]

Well, I'm sure you know your business, and I do have some sympathy for landlords, particularly with the onset of unfair competition from Wetherspoons type pubs.

 

But I'm not sure I'd consider vegetarians a niche market, a very high percentage of the population now are vegetarian, or near vegetarian, and we need food as much as anybody else.

 

If a town has some nice traditional inns, but where I have had crap experiences of the food, but also a Wetherspoons that I know will offer me cheap but consistent grub at half the price or less, where am I likely to return to if I'm hungry, and want to know I'll be well fed ?

 

It's not just food, of course.

 

I regularly drink with a bunch of ex-school chums, rotating between our home towns. Over £3 per pint for bitters in two of the locations, but anywhere between 99p and £1.50 for an equally good pint of ale in the other. I realise that the more traditional pub can't match these prices, but it's not hard in these cash strapped times to see why people change their allegiances, is it ?

I don't agree about the number of veggies. At wrg digs there are rarely more than a couple and usually only one out of about 20-30 people

Sue

[alan_fincher]

I don't agree about the number of veggies. At wrg digs there are rarely more than a couple and usually only one out of about 20-30 people

Sue

Ah!

 

That's because in order to live up to the Veggie stereotype, we are all far too wimpish and feeble to possibly conceivably get involved in serious digging.

 

When my first son was born the matron in charge of the ward constantly hounded my wife that a vegetarian diet couldn't possibly allow her to produce milk that was adequate to feed him. I had to smuggle food in she could eat. (Easy to solve with the next son - she had him at home, so we chose the menu!).

 

Actually for true vegetarians that eat no animal products at all, your number is probably about right, as it's around 3% of the population, Google seems to tell me.

 

However the number that are mostly vegetarian, generally preferring not to eat meat as a rule, but maybe doing so occasionally, (perhaps fish for example), is much higher.

When I have attended company functions, those choosing the vegetarian option was regularly as high as 10%, sometimes more, (particularly in the BSE scare!), and I believe if you look at orders actually placed in pubs offering a wide choice, you could well find as much as 10% choose "non meat".

 

Is it sensible in these days of difficult trading for a pub to alienate anywhere between maybe 3% and 10% of it's possible clientèle ?

 

Edited: BSA to BSE, because although no doubt in the wrong hands a BSA can be scary, it was not what I meant.

Edited March 5, 2009 by alan_fincher

[magpie patrick]

Ah!

 

That's because in order to live up to the Veggie stereotype, we are all far too wimpish and feeble to possibly conceivably get involved in serious digging.

 

When my first son was born the matron in charge of the ward constantly hounded my wife that a vegetarian diet couldn't possibly allow her to produce milk that was adequate to feed him. I had to smuggle food in she could eat. (Easy to solve with the next son - she had him at home, so we chose the menu!).

 

Actually for true vegetarians that eat no animal products at all, your number is probably about right, as it's around 3% of the population, Google seems to tell me.

 

However the number that are mostly vegetarian, generally preferring not to eat meat as a rule, but maybe doing so occasionally, (perhaps fish for example), is much higher.

When I have attended company functions, those choosing the vegetarian option was regularly as high as 10%, sometimes more, (particularly in the BSA scare!), and I believe if you look at orders actually placed in pubs offering a wide choice, you could well find as much as 10% choose "non meat".

 

Is it sensible in these days of difficult trading for a pub to alienate anywhere between maybe 3% and 10% of it's possible clientèle ?

 

Yes Alan, as a type 2 diabetic, controlled only by diet, I nearly always choose the vegetarian menu when I can't be certain of provenance, particularly when the veggie option is something along the lines of veggie/bean stew/curry, as it often is at corporate doos. It's much much safer for me. The number of times an innocent looking meat product has either been glazed or sugar (possibly fruit sugar) added to the sauce...

[bag 'o' bones]

I don't agree about the number of veggies. At wrg digs there are rarely more than a couple and usually only one out of about 20-30 people

Sue

 

Thats probally a good estimate. Every xmas we used to put on a couple of good veggie options on the seasonal menu. I can count on one hand how many we sold over the 4 years or so we were at the pub.

 

Some people might say perhaps we did not sell many because of poor quality. Well, to put that one to bed one lady asked us for the supplier of one veggie dish we served up as she was that impressed.

 

On the subject of microwave meals I think what folk need to understand is good quality commercial food service products designed for the microwave bare no resemblance to what you buy in the average supermarket. In fact some food stuffs in particular fish and veg products actually cook better in the micro.

 

One particular gastro pub I know of which does a roaring trade buys most of its products from the same place we did (Woodwards food service) and have a waiting list for tables. And yes a lot of it comes frozen and is cooked in a microwave.

 

Thing is these days most people want there food within 20 minutes want top quality service and don't want to pay much for the privilage.

[DHutch]

Horrable isnt it.

- You really have to feel for the pubicans and locals alike.

[Hairy-Neil]

Ah!

 

That's because in order to live up to the Veggie stereotype, we are all far too wimpish and feeble to possibly conceivably get involved in serious digging.

 

I was one of Sueb's occasional veggies....

 

Having spent some 15 years on a non animal diet I can say that there is a large percentage of vegetarians that don't bother with eating out if they can avoid it. When we ate out we tended to frequent curry houses, people who understand vegetarian dishes. Most food outlets run by non veggies don't and provide the veggie option straight from the freezer/microwave. Extremely rarely would you get personally prepared food. It's no surprise we stopped eating out.

 

We've been to formal functions that confirmed in advance they could cater for vegetarians, only to find our meals were the same as everyone else, just with the meat left off. I remember one family wedding being served up a lettuce leaf and half a tomato.

[Dominic M]

However the number that are mostly vegetarian, generally preferring not to eat meat as a rule, but maybe doing so occasionally, (perhaps fish for example), is much higher.

Can one be "mostly vegetarian"? How about "mostly a non-smoker" (they were the ones when in the days I when used to smoke before some b*****d invented cancer who would say, "I don't smoke really but could I have one of yours?"). Or "mostly a teetotaller". Could a doctor pronounce someone to be, "mostly dead"?

[Naughty Cal]

Can one be "mostly vegetarian"? How about "mostly a non-smoker" (they were the ones when in the days I when used to smoke before some b*****d invented cancer who would say, "I don't smoke really but could I have one of yours?"). Or "mostly a teetotaller". Could a doctor pronounce someone to be, "mostly dead"?

 

I was an almost "tee-totaler", then i bought a boat and forgot

 

Hadnt had a drink for 3/4 years before buying Cal.

[Tim Lewis]

I don't agree about the number of veggies. At wrg digs there are rarely more than a couple and usually only one out of about 20-30 people

Sue

 

Reminds me of a WRG dig many years ago when Sue was cooking a very large pot of stew and was asked if there was a vegetarian option. "Yes" she replied "just take your portion from the top of the pan as all the meat has sunk to the bottom"

 

Tim

[Machpoint005]

When I have attended company functions, those choosing the vegetarian option was regularly as high as 10%, sometimes more, (particularly in the BSE scare!), and I believe if you look at orders actually placed in pubs offering a wide choice, you could well find as much as 10% choose "non meat".

Fancy! I never knew we omnivores were not allowed to eat meals without meat. As far as I know, it isn't compulsory.

 

Reminds me of a WRG dig many years ago when Sue was cooking a very large pot of stew and was asked if there was a vegetarian option. "Yes" she replied "just take your portion from the top of the pan as all the meat has sunk to the bottom"

Mt brother always says 'They're vegetarian, are they? Then they can have vegetables.'

[carlt]

Or "mostly a teetotaller". Could a doctor pronounce someone to be, "mostly dead"?

As somebody who drinks very infrequently (last alcoholic drink was one pint of Kamikaze, in the second week in january, before that a glass of wine on xmas day, I'll have a pint on my birthday and probably nothing after that until September) "mostly teetotal" is a reasonable description.

 

 

My brother always says 'They're vegetarian, are they? Then they can have vegetables.'

I met a "Fructarian" once (she didn't eat living plants, only fruit, seeds, nuts and pulses).

 

I asked for her views on abortion and she was none too amused.

[Hairy-Neil]

Can one be "mostly vegetarian"? How about "mostly a non-smoker"

 

I eat meat again now, but still enjoy an occasional vegetarian curry. What I used to detest was substitutes. Vegetarian 'meat' pies or vegeburgers, Lasagne made with TVP. I can't be doing with them.

 

Amuses me on dating websites when folk state in their profile: Smoker, occasionally.

[magpie patrick]

Can one be "mostly vegetarian"? How about "mostly a non-smoker" (they were the ones when in the days I when used to smoke before some b*****d invented cancer who would say, "I don't smoke really but could I have one of yours?"). Or "mostly a teetotaller". Could a doctor pronounce someone to be, "mostly dead"?

 

The Linda McCartney's of this world like to regard these things as absolute, it was Linda who said you can't be nearly pregnant so you can't be nearly vegetarian. You wouldn't be mostly dead but people are "near death", some even come back from this state, having "almost died". I mostly travel to work by public transport, but today I've had to bring the car in, does that mean I can't claim to commute by train, just because occasionally I don't?

 

Language relies a lot on abbreviation and interpretation: "my diet is mostly vegetarian, although I occasionally eat white meat" can be reduced to "I'm mostly vegetarian" and people know what you mean. Carl's example is a good one, it would be overstating his drinking habits to say he doesn't drink much, he drinks almost nothing. and yes, you can have almost nothing!

[alan_fincher]

Even as I typed "mostly vegetarian", or something similar, I thought that someone would pick up on it.

 

My take on it is the same as Patrick's (above) or on Carl with his alcohol - I think most people understand what is meant, (although getting 75% of the population to understand that fish can't be part of a true vegetarian diet is a lot harder!)

 

I was an almost "tee-totaler", then i bought a boat and forgot

 

Hadnt had a drink for 3/4 years before buying Cal.

 

Yes, I understand that boat ownership can turn quite a few people to drink - usually when the bills come in, I think.

 

Is a "tee-totaler" someone who does the stock checks in a golfing stores, by the way ?

[dor]

Why do vegetarians eat cheese and ither dairy products and eggs? Surely they are still omnivores. "vegetarian" by definition should mean only eating plants. I know that vegans follow this route, but why do people with an omnivorous, but (mainly?) meat-free diet call themselves vegetarian? I'm not trying to be critical, just interested to know.

 

I eat meat, but I'm not a carnivore I'm an omnivore.

[carlt]

(although getting 75% of the population to understand that fish can't be part of a true vegetarian diet is a lot harder!)

A bit like "I'm mostly teetotal, I only drink whisky (a bottle a day)".

[magpie patrick]

From wikipedia

 

Additionally, many individuals describe themselves as simply "vegetarian" while actually practicing a semi-vegetarian diet.[19]

 

Semi-vegetarianism—A diet that excludes certain meats, particularly red meat, but allows the consumption of others.

Pescetarianism—A diet that excludes all meat except fish, shellfish, and crustacea.

Pollotarianism—A diet that excludes all meat except poultry and fowl.

Flexitarianism—A diet that consists primarily of vegetarian food, but that allows occasional exceptions.

 

note, not eating animal prducts at all is veganism

 

also lacto-veggie (doesn't eat eggs but does eat dairy) and ovo-veggie (doesn't eat dairy but does eat eggs)

 

I like the idea of flexitarianism, how about flexi-teetotalism, flexi turn up at work ism, flexi-fidelity, flexi loan repayment, flexi-alcoholism (drink most days but not all)

[Dominic M]

Vegan is a particularly intriguing code. Where does one draw the line? Strict vegans do not eat honey as it is exploiting the bees, I believe. At what point in the order of life does the taking or exploitation of life become acceptable? After all, would a vegan take action to eradicate woodworm for example? Every time you brush your teeth numerous bacteria are destroyed - and bacteria is unarguably a life form. I'm not making fun of this, I am just wholly confused as to where the line is drawn.

 

I was vegetarian for a number of years - strictly so. Then I kept my own chickens. They only lay eggs to any great degree for a few years. What do you do with them after that - run an old chickens' home? Nope, you eat them. Ditto when breeding new stock. You can't keep a horde of cockerels, believe me. They will tear each other to shreds. So you eat them too. The same is true with milk - you cannot produce milk without keeping a cow in calf. What happens to those calves? They get eaten of course - especially the bullocks. So vegetarians, unwittingly, are fuelling the meat industry by consuming eggs and dairy products. Which is the vegan argument. Which gets me back to where I started.

 

It used to amuse me that the Vegan Society used photography in their magazine. Probably digital now, but then it was film. All film uses animal gelatine as part of its process. Never mind. I expect it was "mostly" vegan.

[dor]

And then there is the whole issue of leather shoes ...

[Hairy-Neil]

I'm not making fun of this, I am just wholly confused as to where the line is drawn.

 

 

For a number of years I mostly ate no animal products but continued to wear leather boots throughout. It wasn't through any particular love of animals or moral code. It was just a diet I enjoyed at the time.

 

There were lapses occasionally, usually to please others. At social events and formal occasions I would not go hungry.

 

I clean my teeth regularly, the 'rat man' comes monthly and baits around my premises. I shoot feral pigeons around the yard when they stand still long enough to get an aim at them. I leave the carcases at the door and they are always gone by the next day, so are contributing to the food chain.